Ask the Exercise Scientist

[Times Roman]

Dear Mr. Muscle Science Sir,
first time caller, long time listener.....
Silly question time, but here goes....
compounds first, then fill in with minor muscle groups, or....
start low with the minor muscle groups, then end with the majors as a compound exercise
(the way I've always done it)
Warmest regards,
FTCLTL

[MuscleScience]

Sorry to read that and I wish you a full recovery.

Thanks!

The possiblity of being on HRT for life was what brought me to this board many years ago. I didnt have the foggest clue about steroids, HRT or anything other than what I had read in the doctors offices (and there have been lots of Doctors). I decided to read up, learn and then made my decision to forgo TRT and try and do things naturally and use as little medication as I could. I want to have kids some day so being on TRT and that being a risk has kept me learning on this board. Believe it or not, I use to think Tren was another name for Testosterone like Test Prop or Test E. I thought it was just a brand of testosterone. The silver lining I guess is that I have met a lot of like minded people as far as health and wellness, lots of cool friends and of course I get to help people on here with stuff I know something about. Which is not Steroids let me tell you.

[MuscleScience]

Dear Mr. Muscle Science Sir,
first time caller, long time listener.....
Silly question time, but here goes....
compounds first, then fill in with minor muscle groups, or....
start low with the minor muscle groups, then end with the majors as a compound exercise
(the way I've always done it)
Warmest regards,
FTCLTL

You always want to go big to little. Meaning you want to do your heavy compound primary movements/exercise first. The simple reason is because if you pre-fatigue the small minor muscle groups before the compound movement. Those are often times the muscles that assist in the exercise and provide stability. If these are worked before the bigger muscles the likelyhood of injury increases because those smaller muscles fail first. That is not to say that you can do a very light warmup for these muscles. Say like doing light shoulder exercise before bench press.

[Mr.Rose]

Well we are kinda on a slippery slop here as far as AAS questions. I do not like to answer questions about AAS usage and such but technically I guess this isnt really. So I will try to carefully answer the question and not break my own rules.

Scar tissue can develope anywhere in the body for the most part. Anytime a tissue is traumatized its structure changes and scar tissue developes as a patch or repair. Its never really the same after the insult. Bone typically can repair itself in a way that does not make it apparent of past trauma. Meaning the tissue can be repaired in a coherent manner, of course there are exceptions.

The lumps develop as part of an inflammatory response to the oil being in the muscle. The IM injection for AAS is called a suspension delivery method or Depot. Any PharmD's out there forgive me if I butcher this. But what essentially happens is that the Steroid molecules are desolved into the oil solution. The oil is then deposited in the muscles or depositied and this depot of oil is resorbed by the body and the steroid molecules fall out of solution and crystalize and are carried away slowly by the body. Repetitive IM shots to the same area can cause a prolonged response by the body. Sometimes even something called a injection site granuloma can develop. Which is basically a calcified reminate of a past injection.

My apologies, i didn't mean it as an AAS question, more as a medical question.
I will have to get some scans done i guess, i would not want any permanent damage. Yes you butchered it in an elegant way . I know what a granuloma is, and i swear i better not have developed one. .

Thanks for that MS, any chance of permanent muscle/strength damage or is there no real way to tell 100%.

[MuscleScience]

My apologies, i didn't mean it as an AAS question, more as a medical question.
I will have to get some scans done i guess, i would not want any permanent damage. Yes you butchered it in an elegant way . I know what a granuloma is, and i swear i better not have developed one. .

Thanks for that MS, any chance of permanent muscle/strength damage or is there no real way to tell 100%.

If a large abscess either sterile or bacterial developes I could see a problem developing. Typically granulomas are an incidental finding on xray. I actually have several in my shoulder from cortizone shots from baseball. Though they are very small. However I am not sure that I would continue to insult the problematic areas further.

[W.I.L.L]

MS,

My own personal health God...I'm back to bug you. Been a while since I've been on. Anyway.

Ok, I keep trying to figure this out, but now it's really got me thinking if my smoking (yes I still smoke, but still shredding and gaining) is the root cause. Here's the issue. Water Retention...


I recently had to take a month off from the gym because I had an allergic reaction to Bactrim that almost shut down my liver. Fvcking evil anti-biotics! I haven't done anything too active with the iron, but started the Bowflex and cardio today.

Since I've been out of the gym, I have been feeling physically great. I almost feel it was a much needed rest anyway, and I feel like I have been "recovering" muscularly from beating myself to death in the gym for so long. I am NATTY.

Now, when I have my normal routine, go to the gym, lift, hour of cardio...I retain water like a MF'er! My whole body seems giggly a large majority of the time. However, since I have been talking the time off, my water retention is drastically lower, I've been eating whatever, and whenever I want, and I haven't gained any fat.

Could the fact that I am a smoker be causing my body and muscles to be so deprived of oxygen, that when I do extremely strenuous activities, it's causing me to retain water?

I don't get it...I know I should quit smoking, but I can still fly more than ever in the gym and my hour of cardio...

[MuscleScience]

MS,

My own personal health God...I'm back to bug you. Been a while since I've been on. Anyway.

Ok, I keep trying to figure this out, but now it's really got me thinking if my smoking (yes I still smoke, but still shredding and gaining) is the root cause. Here's the issue. Water Retention...


I recently had to take a month off from the gym because I had an allergic reaction to Bactrim that almost shut down my liver. Fvcking evil anti-biotics! I haven't done anything too active with the iron, but started the Bowflex and cardio today.

Since I've been out of the gym, I have been feeling physically great. I almost feel it was a much needed rest anyway, and I feel like I have been "recovering" muscularly from beating myself to death in the gym for so long. I am NATTY.

Now, when I have my normal routine, go to the gym, lift, hour of cardio...I retain water like a MF'er! My whole body seems giggly a large majority of the time. However, since I have been talking the time off, my water retention is drastically lower, I've been eating whatever, and whenever I want, and I haven't gained any fat.

Could the fact that I am a smoker be causing my body and muscles to be so deprived of oxygen, that when I do extremely strenuous activities, it's causing me to retain water?

I don't get it...I know I should quit smoking, but I can still fly more than ever in the gym and my hour of cardio...

Hey buddy its been awhile,

Ok you probably already know what I am going to say. But I am going to say it anyway. You should probably stop smoking as that hinders your gains and is overall terrible for your health.

The water retention is a pretty hard thing to narrow down. Certainly smoking causes a temporary hypoxic state in the body. How hypoxic is a matter of debate among medical professionals, but regardless it decreases your bodys ability to deliver oxygen to the tissues. I am not sure what medications you are currently on, or what you were on. I would think first and foremost that would be where I looked. Now having said you had liver issues and such, my Strongest Advise is to ask your doctor about the water retention. Find out if its really a problem or in your head. Sometimes people do not have an objective view of their own body. What you may feel is water retention may actually be pysco-analytica view of your self that may not really be accurate. Like a 300lbs body builder than is 3 percent body fat but thinks his calves are to small or whatever.

For now thats about all I can really say on the matter.

[W.I.L.L]

Hey buddy its been awhile,

Ok you probably already know what I am going to say. But I am going to say it anyway. You should probably stop smoking as that hinders your gains and is overall terrible for your health.

The water retention is a pretty hard thing to narrow down. Certainly smoking causes a temporary hypoxic state in the body. How hypoxic is a matter of debate among medical professionals, but regardless it decreases your bodys ability to deliver oxygen to the tissues. I am not sure what medications you are currently on, or what you were on. I would think first and foremost that would be where I looked. Now having said you had liver issues and such, my Strongest Advise is to ask your doctor about the water retention. Find out if its really a problem or in your head. Sometimes people do not have an objective view of their own body. What you may feel is water retention may actually be pysco-analytica view of your self that may not really be accurate. Like a 300lbs body builder than is 3 percent body fat but thinks his calves are to small or whatever.

For now thats about all I can really say on the matter.

Thanks a lot for the response, Sir. I hope you've been well.

I know, I know, I know...I really should quit. If I didn't enjoy it so much I might would then call it an addiction. But the addiction isn't the problem, the enjoyment is...

I hadn't been on any medications prior to the bactrim, and I started taking it because of a slight Epidymitis case. Nothing major, but warranted the "poison." My liver didn't like it too much, and I had jaundice for about 3 days. I was totally yellow; felt like I instantly lost 15 lbs., but have now come to find I've lost nothing and feel restored.

I've tried to narrow this down for a while, and I really don't think it's in my head. My stomach is noticably less defiant even in my chest and legs on days/weeks that I workout. It's the fact that I started to almost feel "better" when I wasn't working out. The only different thing about my routine this past month is that I was eating worse and not being active. Doesn't make sense...hence why I thought of oxygen deficiancy or like you posted, a hypoxic state.

What about the idea that cortisol is staying in my system for too long? My lack of recovery could be what the root problem is; the down time may have really been needed.

I can work out for months at a time, but after a while I can feel that my body isn't recovering as well from workout to workout. And as a side notion I'm one of those types of people that usually runs on adrenaline all day, so I'm kinda always in a "stressed out" state.

Any thoughts?

[MuscleScience]

Thanks a lot for the response, Sir. I hope you've been well.

I know, I know, I know...I really should quit. If I didn't enjoy it so much I might would then call it an addiction. But the addiction isn't the problem, the enjoyment is...

I hadn't been on any medications prior to the bactrim, and I started taking it because of a slight Epidymitis case. Nothing major, but warranted the "poison." My liver didn't like it too much, and I had jaundice for about 3 days. I was totally yellow; felt like I instantly lost 15 lbs., but have now come to find I've lost nothing and feel restored.

I've tried to narrow this down for a while, and I really don't think it's in my head. My stomach is noticably less defiant even in my chest and legs on days/weeks that I workout. It's the fact that I started to almost feel "better" when I wasn't working out. The only different thing about my routine this past month is that I was eating worse and not being active. Doesn't make sense...hence why I thought of oxygen deficiancy or like you posted, a hypoxic state.

What about the idea that cortisol is staying in my system for too long? My lack of recovery could be what the root problem is; the down time may have really been needed.

I can work out for months at a time, but after a while I can feel that my body isn't recovering as well from workout to workout. And as a side notion I'm one of those types of people that usually runs on adrenaline all day, so I'm kinda always in a "stressed out" state.

Any thoughts?

Built in breaks are a important part of any program. Your body can only take so much punishment before it can not adapt and recover anymore. I think that every few months of hard consistent training is needed. I as a part of any program it make, do a down week regardless if they are an athlete or just a weekend warrior.

[Hazard]

Does the excercise scientist need sleep to function properly?

GOTO BED MAN!

It's 12:40am by me.... i'm goin to bed

~Haz~

[MuscleScience]

Does the excercise scientist need sleep to function properly?

GOTO BED MAN!

It's 12:40am by me.... i'm goin to bed

~Haz~

Yeah but he cant sleep anyway so he might as well keep newbs from doing a billion cc's of dbol and tren on their first cycle....LOL

[dangerous dan]

MS just got back from a real good chest day, lifted more than ever before so im happy with what im doing so far.

1 thing is, when i come to do Decline db press, why no matter how much i change my form does it seem most stress in actually on my Delts?

[Mizat1369]

Hey MS, question for you.... Back in 2005 I had a partial anterior labrum rupture on my left shoulder. I was prescribed PT, but did not do any choosing to do it on my own instead. Obviously the rupture was not severe enough to require surgery. I have full ROM and no muscle imbalance in either shoulder, however my left anterior deltoid is still atrophied significantly compared to my right delt. Anyway I can hypertrophy it to the same size as on my good shoulder? Also, I do rotator cuff exercises when I do my shoulders as well. I appreciate your time and information, thanks.

[MuscleScience]

MS just got back from a real good chest day, lifted more than ever before so im happy with what im doing so far.

1 thing is, when i come to do Decline db press, why no matter how much i change my form does it seem most stress in actually on my Delts?

It could in actuality be that your delts are tiring before the other muscles such as the pecs or triceps which would give the impression that the delts are indeed being worked more. In any chest exercise the delts get a lot of the load anyway. I actually do not do many specific shoulder exercises, just because my chest day seems to be more than enough to get my delts to grow. Of course everyone is a little different.

[MuscleScience]

Hey MS, question for you.... Back in 2005 I had a partial anterior labrum rupture on my left shoulder. I was prescribed PT, but did not do any choosing to do it on my own instead. Obviously the rupture was not severe enough to require surgery. I have full ROM and no muscle imbalance in either shoulder, however my left anterior deltoid is still atrophied significantly compared to my right delt. Anyway I can hypertrophy it to the same size as on my good shoulder? Also, I do rotator cuff exercises when I do my shoulders as well. I appreciate your time and information, thanks.

If deltoid atrophy is occuring, then there is something that is obviously wrong. To me if there is a noticable atrophy it could mean a couple of things. One being that its just how you are (dominate arm vs non-dominate). The second is that maybe there was more to the original injury than previously thought. Five years with continued atrophy is a very long time. It would be advisable to consult with an orthopedist to at very least rule out some other underlying condition.

[W.I.L.L]

Built in breaks are a important part of any program. Your body can only take so much punishment before it can not adapt and recover anymore. I think that every few months of hard consistent training is needed. I as a part of any program it make, do a down week regardless if they are an athlete or just a weekend warrior.

I really am starting to believe that this is the REAL issue. I need to break more and alter my workouts to where I'm not trying to kill myself so much.

Thanks for everything once again, bro'hem!

You're the Google of all things living so I always ask you first!

[dangerous dan]

It could in actuality be that your delts are tiring before the other muscles such as the pecs or triceps which would give the impression that the delts are indeed being worked more. In any chest exercise the delts get a lot of the load anyway. I actually do not do many specific shoulder exercises, just because my chest day seems to be more than enough to get my delts to grow. Of course everyone is a little different.

kk, you sugest i dont do delts??

after 4 sets flat bench i move to decline db press and after that i have no chance my delts feel ****ed its like my form maybe wrong but im trying alsorts to take any pressure from them

[MuscleScience]

kk, you sugest i dont do delts??

after 4 sets flat bench i move to decline db press and after that i have no chance my delts feel ****ed its like my form maybe wrong but im trying alsorts to take any pressure from them

One thing you may try is doing SITS muscle exercises, (rotator cuff). Look up these exercises on youtube. These muscles are small stablizing muscles and are often over looked or over powered my the larger deltoid muscles.

[stevey_6t9]

how long does it take for the androgen receptors to upregulate after cessation of steroid use.

[MuscleScience]

how long does it take for the androgen receptors to upregulate after cessation of steroid use.

I dont know, I was under the impression that its expression is upregulated by the presense of high androgen levels.

[BJJ]

In september I will start my 5 weeks burst cycle (http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=441471) and wanted to know what you think about the way I intend to proceed with the training along with brazilian jiu-jitsu.

Basically, Monday, Wednesday and Friday will be the days of hard work-outs only (1h each day max).
While, on Thursday and Saturday I will perform, after 30' from the work-outs, also bjj for about 1 hour.
Tuesday and Sunday will be my days off.

I was wondering under your opinion, what type of supplements should I ingest in the 30' of waiting from the end of the work-out to the starting of the bjj training?

[stevey_6t9]

I dont know, I was under the impression that its expression is upregulated by the presense of high androgen levels.

if that were the case, wouldnt ones best gains theoretically come at the end of a cycle and constantly improve the more cycles they do?

seems odd to me.

[MuscleScience]

if that were the case, wouldnt ones best gains theoretically come at the end of a cycle and constantly improve the more cycles they do?

seems odd to me.

Honestly Marcus300 would be the person more able to answer that question for you. I really dont know.

[MuscleScience]

In september I will start my 5 weeks burst cycle (http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=441471) and wanted to know what you think about the way I intend to proceed with the training along with brazilian jiu-jitsu.

Basically, Monday, Wednesday and Friday will be the days of hard work-outs only (1h each day max).
While, on Thursday and Saturday I will perform, after 30' from the work-outs, also bjj for about 1 hour.
Tuesday and Sunday will be my days off.

I was wondering under your opinion, what type of supplements should I ingest in the 30' of waiting from the end of the work-out to the starting of the bjj training?

Carbs, and beta-alanine. These would help both buffer lactic acid in the cell (beta alanine) and give you fuel for your anaerobic workout that is bjj. (carbs)

[BJJ]

Carbs, and beta-alanine. These would help both buffer lactic acid in the cell (beta alanine) and give you fuel for your anaerobic workout that is bjj. (carbs)

[Twist]

Can you post any good links on protein turnover so I can research? Don't wanna make you do all the work... Unless you like to hear yourself type.

I also have another question relating, or so I think, to length tension relationships.
I am the most unflexible person I have ever met. I can't sit crosslegged on the floor, just stretched enough to touch my toes for a 2 second hold etc. I mean I really can't bend in any sort of way. Now I have gotten my diet and training down as much as I can, but I cannot grow. I think (90% sure)I am at my genetic limit. My family members are all skinny to say the least, with multiple eating problems among them (nobody gets hungry, like hunger pangs don't exist - they are replaced by headaches and other sides). Further, nobody is flexible. I mean my brothers can't sit on the floor crosslegged either.
Could my gains be hindered by my lacking range of motion?
What is the best way to stretch to lengthen muscles?

I have tried all kinds of stretching and I have come to the conclusion that static stretching is completely useless. I did it everyday for so long at a time of two minutes per stretch and didn't gain shit for flexibility. Then I did something stupid in a frustrated effort to stretch further, I started bouncing. After using this method, which I have been told never to do, I am now able to touch my toes for a hold of *gets up and tries it* 4 seconds. Before I was only able to touch my middle shin area. So... what do you say?

ps. I can't believe I didn't find this earlier. I was getting so bored of this board I have debated not coming on for a while.


stats:
22
5-9
165lbs
sub10%bf
training and dieting seriously for three to four years
trt due to medical issues (need to get a pituitary scan but haven't gotten around to it)
Don't cycle, planning on soon... started hgh at 1iu a couple of days ago (hopefully to help with internal issues)

[MuscleScience]

Can you post any good links on protein turnover so I can research? Don't wanna make you do all the work... Unless you like to hear yourself type.

I also have another question relating, or so I think, to length tension relationships.
I am the most unflexible person I have ever met. I can't sit crosslegged on the floor, just stretched enough to touch my toes for a 2 second hold etc. I mean I really can't bend in any sort of way. Now I have gotten my diet and training down as much as I can, but I cannot grow. I think (90% sure)I am at my genetic limit. My family members are all skinny to say the least, with multiple eating problems among them (nobody gets hungry, like hunger pangs don't exist - they are replaced by headaches and other sides). Further, nobody is flexible. I mean my brothers can't sit on the floor crosslegged either.
Could my gains be hindered by my lacking range of motion?
What is the best way to stretch to lengthen muscles?

I have tried all kinds of stretching and I have come to the conclusion that static stretching is completely useless. I did it everyday for so long at a time of two minutes per stretch and didn't gain shit for flexibility. Then I did something stupid in a frustrated effort to stretch further, I started bouncing. After using this method, which I have been told never to do, I am now able to touch my toes for a hold of *gets up and tries it* 4 seconds. Before I was only able to touch my middle shin area. So... what do you say?

ps. I can't believe I didn't find this earlier. I was getting so bored of this board I have debated not coming on for a while.


stats:
22
5-9
165lbs
sub10%bf
training and dieting seriously for three to four years
trt due to medical issues (need to get a pituitary scan but haven't gotten around to it)
Don't cycle, planning on soon... started hgh at 1iu a couple of days ago (hopefully to help with internal issues)

Protein turnover or amino acid recycling, which ever term you prefer. Simply means that the body is in a dynamic state of growth and repair. Part of the recovery process with training or just as part of normal maintence is to break down tissues that are damaged and repair it. The body takes these tissues along with other proteins that are part of other physiological processes and breaks down the whole proteins and recycles the amino acids that comprise these proteins. The body then reuses these amino acids in the growth and repair process. The body is very efficient at turning these amino acids over and reusing them, something like 80% efficient according to some sources I have seen.

The length Tension Relationship refers to the optimal range of length that a muscle should, in order to produce force. If the muscle is too long or too short, it can not form enough new cross bridges to produce force, according to the Sliding Filament Theory.

Flexablity is a function of both mechanical and neural elements in muscle. The mechanical is really the absolute physical amount that a muscle can be stretched before injury occurs. This is actually much further than what the neural element will allow. The muscle has sensory receptors imbedded in them and the tendons that sense the length of a given fiber and how much tension is is under respectively. When a muscle is being stretched to far, a signal is sent to tell the muscle (reflex) to contract so that it will not be injured. There are ways to beat this reflex and one way is to bounce at the end range of motion. Another is contract the muscle then release contraction and push further into the end range of motion, this is called proprioceptive neuromuscular facilitation (PNF)

[Twist]

The length Tension Relationship refers to the optimal range of length that a muscle should, in order to produce force. If the muscle is too long or too short, it can not form enough new cross bridges to produce force, according to the Sliding Filament Theory.

Flexablity is a function of both mechanical and neural elements in muscle. The mechanical is really the absolute physical amount that a muscle can be stretched before injury occurs. This is actually much further than what the neural element will allow. The muscle has sensory receptors imbedded in them and the tendons that sense the length of a given fiber and how much tension is is under respectively. When a muscle is being stretched to far, a signal is sent to tell the muscle (reflex) to contract so that it will not be injured. There are ways to beat this reflex and one way is to bounce at the end range of motion. Another is contract the muscle then release contraction and push further into the end range of motion, this is called proprioceptive neuromuscular facilitation (PNF)

I know all of this, I was asking in your experience, what is the best way to lengthen my calf and hamstring complex? Also, do you think this genetic altered length tension relationship could be holding me back from gaining anymore weight? Or should I not bother going to the extreme effort I have been going to to lengthen my muscles?

[Twist]

And I got another one... I think protein shakes are shit (for me at least). I mean I might as well not even eat (almost lol). So in your opinion would powdered egg whites be a substitute for whey protein?

[MuscleScience]

The Length Tension relationship has nothing to do with your strength or power generation. The best way to increase strength and power is through training. Specifically training the nervous system to coordinate motor units to generate force. A lot of strength and power is simply getting the muscles to fire in a coordinated and controlled manner. Plyometrics are the best form of training for power, strength is better trained through resistance training.

Stretching is important at the end of training to help lengthen out the muscles after training and resetting the nervous system. Stretching before weight training has been shown in the literature to be detrimental to force production.

[MuscleScience]

And I got another one... I think protein shakes are shit (for me at least). I mean I might as well not even eat (almost lol). So in your opinion would powdered egg whites be a substitute for whey protein?

I feel that protein supplements should be treated just as that, a supplement to ones overall diet. I think all diets should be based on whole food selection. Nature knows best what to put in food. To think that we could come up with a protein source, or vitamin source or mineral source better than what nature already provides is pretty silly.

There are actually a lot of positive health benefits to whey protein supplementation, most of which has to do with GI function. However I do not think taking a shake 3-5 times a day is the best method. I think a protein source after training is probably a pretty good idea as long as its part of an overall diet plan.

[Twist]

I feel that protein supplements should be treated just as that, a supplement to ones overall diet. I think all diets should be based on whole food selection. Nature knows best what to put in food. To think that we could come up with a protein source, or vitamin source or mineral source better than what nature already provides is pretty silly.

There are actually a lot of positive health benefits to whey protein supplementation, most of which has to do with GI function. However I do not think taking a shake 3-5 times a day is the best method. I think a protein source after training is probably a pretty good idea as long as its part of an overall diet plan.

Yes I have said this many times pretty much word for word. My question was if you think powdered egg whites can be a substitute for whey. I am very pessimistic about the nutritional value of something that has been altered (dehydrated or whatever) to make it into a powder.

[MuscleScience]

Yes I have said this many times pretty much word for word. My question was if you think powdered egg whites can be a substitute for whey. I am very pessimistic about the nutritional value of something that has been altered (dehydrated or whatever) to make it into a powder.

Since powdered egg whites are only a part of the whole egg, of course its going to have a decrease in overall nutritional value vs that of a whole egg. Especially with egg whites, one has to be careful that one doesnt give themselves biotin deficiency. Egg white contains avidin which strongly binds to avidin. You have to be careful that your egg white product does not have concentrated levels of avidin. Typically properly cooked egg whites will have the avidin denatured and inactivated, I would assume the same would be true of egg white powder but you never know.

[Twist]

Could I bypass this by getting powdered whole eggs? the only time I would drink this mixture is pwo and when I wake up to piss in the morning. My diet is always whole food except for those times.

[HawaiianPride.]

MS, I've skimmed through some of your thread and I have to say you've done an excellent job to say the least. I'm very impressed and would expect nothing less from a guy of your knowledge. Well done bro, truly.

[MuscleScience]

MS, I've skimmed through some of your thread and I have to say you've done an excellent job to say the least. I'm very impressed and would expect nothing less from a guy of your knowledge. Well done bro, truly.

Thanks HP!

[MuscleScience]

Could I bypass this by getting powdered whole eggs? the only time I would drink this mixture is pwo and when I wake up to piss in the morning. My diet is always whole food except for those times.

I assume that the processing the egg white has to go through would more than likely involve some sort of denaturing process to rid the egg white of avidin.

[Twist]

SO how do I find out for sure? Do you think that it loses nutritional value in this process?

[MuscleScience]

SO how do I find out for sure? Do you think that it loses nutritional value in this process?

From Flex Online, http://www.flexonline.com/top_protei...s/nutrition/58

"#3 EGG PROTEIN
Before whey was all the rage, egg protein was considered the gold standard of protein powders. It is still one of the best protein powders that money can buy, and it offers benefits that whey doesn’t.

Egg Protein Powder Egg protein is still one of the highest-quality proteins available. It is virtually devoid of carbs and fat, and it is readily digested and absorbed. It is a great pre- and postworkout protein. Egg-white protein is high in sulfur-containing amino acids. These aminos are critical to the body’s hormone-producing pathways. It’s a good choice for those who are allergic to cow’s milk proteins and for those who do not regularly consume eggs. Many egg protein powders now contain avidin-neutralized egg-white powder — avidin is a glycoprotein in egg whites that depletes the body of biotin (an essential vitamin that performs critical roles in the metabolism of fats, proteins and carbohydrates, and is important for optimal health). When choosing egg-white protein powders, look for one or more of the following on the list of ingredients: egg protein, egg-white protein, egg-white solids and egg-white albumin."

[Twist]

this is what you are reffering to...: http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/store/e...ci_sku=OP-7021

This is what I am referring to:
https://www.usaemergencysupply.com/f...honeyville.htm