No More Insurance for TRT

[Beethoven]

Yes this has been a healthy and sometimes even stimulating debate.
2Sox, that is a very touching letter and possibly even true. But look at it for what it is. He is getting a premium with chemo already for $62 a month. Haleiluya. However those of that still work and pay are paying a heck of a lot more than that. What do you suppose would happen if we could all go into Obamacare and pay $62 a month? What do you think would happen to "insurance" and or healthcare. The bottom would drop out. Even at single payer there is no way the healthcare industry could support it at $62 a month. It is plain economics. You are an educated man think about it. More money would have to come via taxes or rate increases. If the profit is removed from the equation will the pharmaceuticals keep manufacturing expensive medicines? Would Doctors who spend effectively half their lives in school and rack up hundreds and thousands of dollars in student loans keep that up? Will the cutting edge research that produce the medications and cutting edge surgical techniques keep going, for free? You didn't work for free (although I readily believe good teachers are grossly underpaid) and did get a nice retirement. Yet we expect everything to keep functioning at this level for effectively free. When the incentive for profit is removed where will the motivation for work come from? The goodness of our hearts? This simply is not so. And even in the countries where the Drs are taught on the govt dime, how many then leave and come to the U.S. Or elsewhere to make more money? The strive to live better and higher is a natural human condition. This socialized system is a panacea that doesn't exist. That is why a high level Canadian Official elected to have the procedure done in this country other than his. It costed him about $20000 to have it here vs his homeland. I assure you he wasn't ignorant or mis informed as that article tried to make him out. We spoke on another thread about choices, and if I'm not mistaken you are a believer that depression is basically the sum of many bad choices in ones life as opposed to chemical imbalances. Maybe so but not every choice in ones life is his or hers. In this case, the ACA was made for us without or consent. It was forced upon us. As I pointed out in the other thread many choices in our lives are not necessarily ones we've made. Now as it pertains to trt, most of the meds for all of us aren't covered anyway, so what happens when you have to start rationing or it becomes single payer to those of us on trt? We're screwed and will have to resort to the black market. Why, WE are made up of all kinds of politically sided individuals who can't get past the "our team" mentality when it comes to politics, as if this were a football game or soccer match. Not until our individual toes are stepped on do we open our eyes. I don't want ANY government wether right, left or independent involved in my healthcare decisions. It's going to be ok for us to go in the dark alleys for our black market test but the politicians want to keep women from that same alley for their abortion. We have no lobby or voting block so if we're going to cover chemo for $62 a month SOMETHING has to get cut. The healthcare market cannot absorb everything and everyone for $62 a month.

[bullshark99]

Before someone beats me to it, I'm not looking for a plan with a 50,000 deduct able either.

[Metalject]

And we will probably follow the same track ever nation and empire in history who has done this because we seem incapable of learning from our or others past. We will fall if we dont change things around. Only problem is I fear we have gone past the point of turning it around without the intevention of a natural global disaster. I say natural because I dont think the public is strong enough to stand up for what is right and wrong anymore. They have been manipulated and softened over time to where we to comfortable to make a stand afraid of loosing what they have and will just continue to loose it little by little.

We are without a doubt at the point of no return, at least as it stands. You're right, it would take a disaster for things to change, and that's unfortunate. A natural disaster or man made, I don't think it makes a difference. Actually, a man made one might be better if we consider our history. Think about it....after 9/11 most Americans felt united and the mindset begin to gradually change. But it wasn't enough, the disaster and threat wasn't enough to make it last. If we look back at our history, it has always been in instances of our safety and liberty at stake in a blatant way. For whatever reason, as a whole, we seem to be blinded when liberty is slowly and methodically taken away.

But it is always in disaster that we seem to turn things around unlike other places around the world. I do not know why that is, I honestly don't have a good answer for it. But I've been fortunate to have many friends from all over the world, and the mindset we have here is very unique.

I do believe there is still hope and I do believe there are still good people, but the point of no return without disaster may already very well be here.

[Metalject]

Posted by Metalject: I'm not sure what you're after here. Are you asking if I feel I may have misspoke or if I'd like to add more?

You might have misspoken but I think that it was more that I was unclear on exactly what you were saying about Thomas Paine and God in referencing "Common Sense". I believe you may have confused "Common Sense" with his "Age of Reason" - in which he essentially expresses that organized religion is an abomination - even while being a Deist himself - and says it has absolutely not place in government. Of course, this is how I understand it from what I have read - but it seems pretty clear to me.

I'm very grateful for this discussion because it has given me the opportunity to research and learn new things. Gets the blood moving.

I may have gotten confused...you may be right. It's been years since I've ready anything by Paine, so you could be correct. I do recall, however, reading where Paine discussed Hamilton and Washington's basis of the separation of powers on the book of Jeremiah, the branches of government on the book of Isaiah. Even article 4 comes straight from the book of Exodus. And Paine discusses these matters, how he came to terms with it despite his overall lack of faith. The basis of his acceptance was simple, faith or not these principles are basic common sense any man should be able to hold to.

Regardless of our personal beliefs, the idea that much of the constitution directly reflects biblical text, in my opinion this isn't something anyone should be threatened by. Religious or not, the bible says murder is bad; would any of us argue otherwise just because we do not share christian faith? I would hope not; I would hope we could all agree that such things are common sense despite where they come from.

[2Sox]

The answers to your questions are beyond my knowledge. (To say any more at this point would be to basically repeat myself, and to be honest, I'm running out of steam.) I guess we'll all have to wait and see. But it's nice to know that the CBO has found that the ACA will save the country over 190 billion dollars over ten years.

Nevertheless, here's a site I found that I think will help answer some of your questions:

ObamaCare News: Daily Obamacare Updates

And another brief story:

: Affordable Care Act : The Shriver Brief

I predict that in due time all this hysteria will become a thing of the past as more and more people come to realize the benefits of this plan.

[2Sox]

By the way, I Googled "Obamacare for dummies" and LOTS of very useful links came up - that would probably answer most of your questions. If you have time, take a look. I'm doing that now.

Here is a clever presentation:

http://www.upworthy.com/the-simplest...obamacare-ever

[lovbyts]

By the way, I Googled "Obamacare for dummies" and LOTS of very useful links came up - that would probably answer most of your questions. If you have time, take a look. I'm doing that now.

Here is a clever presentation:

The Simplest Explanation Of Obamacare. Ever.

Hmmm should I believe the propaganda online that I can read or what my real life experience, eyes and ears show me? I guess some people still like to drink the koolaid.

Wow! I made it through about 50% of the video and had to stop before I puked. What a bunch of BS. I know no one whos insurance has gotten better but I know plenty of who have much more limitations while paying a lot more, myself included.

[Metalject]

The truth of the matter, regardless of which side of the fence you fall on, it is easy to find "sources" that support your side of the fence. And it's extremely easy to call them credible. A massive problem - there are few, so few credible sources anymore. Media, online blogs and articles, most are persuaded by their own personal desires. Journalism itself is beyond a lost cause - how anyone can take any media seriously anymore is beyond rational comprehension. In watching the last president and the current, and this comment isn't in support of either one - the media's lack of professionalism and dignity is appalling.

The second truth of the matter - no one knows how Obama Care will play out. Everything anyone says is nothing more than a guess and a feeble attempt at predicting the future. We can only state what is in front of us. Will be it the country's saving grace? Based on what's happened so far that is a very hard argument to make. Is it possible? Sure, it could happen. However, let's also keep in mind, if we're going to make predictions, the senate will probably go to the GOP next time, they will also maintain the House as it stands today. If they gain both houses, Obama Care will lose all funding and that is legal - Congress has the right to decide what it funds and what it doesn't - laws can be laws, legal laws, but congress is not required to fund them. Laws go unfunded all the time. That happens and the entire conversation about the future of this law becomes mute.

[optionsdude]

Wow! Been busy with work for a while and haven't been able to read many posts,but this one caught my eye. I finally approach my dr and it sounds like my TRT won't be covered for long. Waiting on results from second set of BW so dr can prescribe. He was very understanding and listened to what I had to say and even agreed to keep my protocol the same. I am not bragging here but I have what some would call a Cadillac plan with a one time yearly deductible of $200 for me and the family. So if I eventually have to pay for my test c. I'm ok with it. I've been brewing and self administering my trt for years now,still have plenty,but wanted to eventually get legit because of life insurance and travelling with vials and pins. The older I get the more the "What if's" bother me. Damn I hate being responsible sometimes. As for the political arguments,it's all a bunch of psychological BS to keep out a third party,each side is scared to vote for another party in fear of the other side winning.

[61er]

So far I've seen no evidence of Humana canceling -- or proposing to cancel --insurance for TRT. Absolutely nothing.

[dreadnok89]

They're both trash. Private and government. Why even argue. Scumbags raise your premiums left and right yet dole out millions to put their names on stadiums and jerk off college football games. Stop the insanity.

[Beethoven]

Wow! Been busy with work for a while and haven't been able to read many posts,but this one caught my eye. I finally approach my dr and it sounds like my TRT won't be covered for long. Waiting on results from second set of BW so dr can prescribe. He was very understanding and listened to what I had to say and even agreed to keep my protocol the same. I am not bragging here but I have what some would call a Cadillac plan with a one time yearly deductible of $200 for me and the family. So if I eventually have to pay for my test c. I'm ok with it. I've been brewing and self administering my trt for years now,still have plenty,but wanted to eventually get legit because of life insurance and travelling with vials and pins. The older I get the more the "What if's" bother me. Damn I hate being responsible sometimes. As for the political arguments,it's all a bunch of psychological BS to keep out a third party,each side is scared to vote for another party in fear of the other side winning.

The problem with third parties is that they are a death Nell for either of the other two. We can thank The Clinton Presidency on Ross Perot. I would like a third party but it doesn't look like it will happen. The Tea Party is almost what you would call a third party, which is what the Republican Party once was, and not only do they have to deal with the Liberal attack machine but also from within their own party. The media as a whole is a joke. The minute you say this one leans left or right means that they are not properly doing their jobs. They are far from objective and are nothing but propaganda arms for the government. This is not what the founders intended. This media spent the whole Bush term telling us we were in a recession when it was quite the opposite. Meanwhile the same media has been telling us we have "recovered" yet unemployment benefits have to keep on extending. If you have to keep extending unemployment benefits we are not in the recovery they would have you believe. This has become a football game with the media rooting for their own side regardless of the facts, with we the public footing the bill for all this. Then Senator Obama called Pres Bush's debt unamerican. He has far surpassed that number and hasn't even finished yet.

[MRNJ1992]

Really depends on your insurance. Im in the teamsters. My last insurance was Magnacare and script coverage was medco. My HCG was 30$ for 3 bottles per delivery and my T was 3 5cc bottles for free. I switched companies and now pay 40$ per bottle on HCG and waiting for an approval for T. So its all about the insurance company. My recent insurance has a bunch of exceptions. Had to fight for the HCG-they want to give it only if your between the age of 18-44. Its all a bunch of crap. Im sure if my wife needs meds for menopause they'll give em to her.

[booku]

Im done with trying to get insurance to cover it, now I just get a discount from the pharmacy but its still 75 a month for a 5ml vial

[Beethoven]

Im done with trying to get insurance to cover it, now I just get a discount from the pharmacy but its still 75 a month for a 5ml vial

Go to goodrx.com and print out the coupon. Take it cvs or walgreens and get it for about $40.

[optionsdude]

The problem with third parties is that they are a death Nell for either of the other two. We can thank The Clinton Presidency on Ross Perot. I would like a third party but it doesn't look like it will happen. The Tea Party is almost what you would call a third party, which is what the Republican Party once was, and not only do they have to deal with the Liberal attack machine but also from within their own party. The media as a whole is a joke. The minute you say this one leans left or right means that they are not properly doing their jobs. They are far from objective and are nothing but propaganda arms for the government. This is not what the founders intended. This media spent the whole Bush term telling us we were in a recession when it was quite the opposite. Meanwhile the same media has been telling us we have "recovered" yet unemployment benefits have to keep on extending. If you have to keep extending unemployment benefits we are not in the recovery they would have you believe. This has become a football game with the media rooting for their own side regardless of the facts, with we the public footing the bill for all this. Then Senator Obama called Pres Bush's debt unamerican. He has far surpassed that number and hasn't
even finished yet.

The media is the one implementing the psychological BS and doing a good job at controlling the herd. Think about it for a while it was "Getting older, feeling sluggish, you've got low T." Now it's "Have you taken any of these products and have heart problems or died,call my law firm."

[The Deadlifting Dog]

"Have you taken any of these products and have heart problems or died,call my law firm."

How exactly do they expect you to call them if you are dead?

[Beethoven]

How exactly do they expect you to call them if you are dead?

that would be a good trick. But hey, dead people vote in Illinois. Lol

[lovbyts]

that would be a good trick. But hey, dead people vote in Illinois. Lol

Only the Democrat ones.

[APIs]

An insurance plan for $62.00/month? Last year our Mom was 88 and on Medicare. Her 'supplemental' insurance plan through Blue Cross alone was $220/month. Come on now...

[lovbyts]

An insurance plan for $62.00/month? Last year our Mom was 88 and on Medicare. Her 'supplemental' insurance plan through Blue Cross alone was $220/month. Come on now...

The qualifications for the $66 a month plan are you have to be deceased for over 6 months and provide proof.

[Beethoven]

The qualifications for the $66 a month plan are you have to be deceased for over 6 months and provide proof.

Illinoisan voter ID required.

[bullshark99]

That letter loses all credibility, whoever forged it should of been at least "semi-realistic" about it. For someone to think that legitamate health insurance cost 62 dollars a month is absurd. Even being deceased with a 6 month waiting period is pushing it LOL. Even us crooked Illinoisan's with fake voter reg cards no better!!

[Low Testosterone]

$62 per month plans are possible, it depends on your income and qualifications. In some ways, qualifying for subsides is like qualifying for various tax write offs. However, at the same time there is no such thing as a $62 plan, that plan cost hundreds if not thousands of dollars per month. The catch is that particular individual simply isn't paying for it but someone is. There is always someone paying for it. I'm not sure why some people can't see that.

[Beethoven]

$62 per month plans are possible, it depends on your income and qualifications. In some ways, qualifying for subsides is like qualifying for various tax write offs. However, at the same time there is no such thing as a $62 plan, that plan cost hundreds if not thousands of dollars per month. The catch is that particular individual simply isn't paying for it but someone is. There is always someone paying for it. I'm not sure why some people can't see that.

You would think so but people are so blinded by their partisanship, it won't allow some common sense. Someone once told me that politics is like a religion. People will follow it blindly no matter what they see or hear.

[Metalject]

Obama Care will cost me almost $800 per month. That's not counting deductible and copays. That's one policy for a single 35yr old man. That is insane!!!

[Beethoven]

Obama Care will cost me almost $800 per month. That's not counting deductible and copays. That's one policy for a single 35yr old man. That is insane!!!

It's really not insane, it's redistribution at its finest. It's not enough you have to carry your load but someone else's, too. It's all part of the design.

[APIs]

Obama Care will cost me almost $800 per month. That's not counting deductible and copays. That's one policy for a single 35yr old man. That is insane!!!

Yes, but like myself you can now feel good in the fact that your contribution here is helping a fellow American.

Can't you feel it?

[Beethoven]

Yes, but like myself you can now feel good in the fact that your contribution here is helping a fellow American.

Can't you feel it?

Funny you should say that. Every left leaning person I've spoken to about this subject always wants feel good about helping someone else. Where I always draw a blank is when I ask How much. How much what they ask. How much does it take? At what point do both sides finally agree is enough? 50% tax? 60 or maybe 70? The war on poverty has been going on for over fifty years and every election cycle it's the same thing. More help for the needy, more education. We spend more on education than probably any other country per student and it's NEVER enough. At what point can we say that what we've been doing doesn't work? The definition of insanity is repeating the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Every year we give more and more to the welfare and social programs and instead of shrinking, they are expanding. I also pay close to $1000 a month for my insurance. If we would all stop working and go on the dime, how long do you think that would last? Everyone wants Wal Mart employees to make a lot of money yet expect to shop there and keep the low low prices. That's insane.

[Metalject]

Yes, but like myself you can now feel good in the fact that your contribution here is helping a fellow American.

Can't you feel it?

I've yet to feel good. I must be doing it wrong.

[Metalject]

Funny you should say that. Every left leaning person I've spoken to about this subject always wants feel good about helping someone else. Where I always draw a blank is when I ask How much. How much what they ask. How much does it take? At what point do both sides finally agree is enough? 50% tax? 60 or maybe 70? The war on poverty has been going on for over fifty years and every election cycle it's the same thing. More help for the needy, more education. We spend more on education than probably any other country per student and it's NEVER enough. At what point can we say that what we've been doing doesn't work? The definition of insanity is repeating the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Every year we give more and more to the welfare and social programs and instead of shrinking, they are expanding. I also pay close to $1000 a month for my insurance. If we would all stop working and go on the dime, how long do you think that would last? Everyone wants Wal Mart employees to make a lot of money yet expect to shop there and keep the low low prices. That's insane.

People that say what you're talking about, feels good to help and that's why they want higher taxes or don't mind it - they say that because they have a societal mindset rather than one of individualism. The latter sounds selfish on its surface but it's anything but - it means it's up to individuals to live and help other individuals. Plus, bleeding hearts you're referring to, if they have money they do all they can to avoid giving it away through taxes like anyone else or they're living on the rest of us. Rarely do you see people who support this type of thing who are regular middle class Joe's, they exist but they are very rare.

[Beethoven]

People that say what you're talking about, feels good to help and that's why they want higher taxes or don't mind it - they say that because they have a societal mindset rather than one of individualism. The latter sounds selfish on its surface but it's anything but - it means it's up to individuals to live and help other individuals. Plus, bleeding hearts you're referring to, if they have money they do all they can to avoid giving it away through taxes like anyone else or they're living on the rest of us. Rarely do you see people who support this type of thing who are regular middle class Joe's, they exist but they are very rare.

Agreed. I'm not rich by ANY stretch but I can say that I have NEVER taken a penny from the govt. I depend on myself to provide.

[Beethoven]

One of my attractions to BB and weight training is that you have to train for what you want. You may not always get what you want as not everyone is genetically gifted for that success. You aren't entitled do a damn thing if you don't work for it. And no one else can give it to you, nor can you take from someone else. However, you can always be better than what you have been but only if YOU work for it. These politicians should train a little bit.

[Score]

One of my attractions to BB and weight training is that you have to train for what you want. You may not always get what you want as not everyone is genetically gifted for that success. You aren't entitled do a damn thing if you don't work for it. And no one else can give it to you, nor can you take from someone else. However, you can always be better than what you have been but only if YOU work for it. These politicians should train a little bit.

Couldn't agree more B!

It's also the only place we're allowed to be 100% or more. Employees screw up, can't freak out. Kids screw up, gotta stay calm. Wife becomes irrational, gotta calm her down. List goes on and on. In the weight room however, no holding back. AMEN

In regards to insurance, I must chime in with a lot less researched and educated views, Everyone feel free to pounce : )..

I get that trt is sometimes not covered. My insurance won't help because my numbers were above 300 so therefore they must see it as a quality of life issue, this is true.

I could survive without it, I choose not too. They cover pain pills for me, odd because that's also a quality of life issue. I take vitamins, those aren't covered. My protein isn't covered nor is my gym membership.

Those statements are a stretch but I get the dilemma for both sides, it's not black and white like some are making it out to be.

I'll pay the 40 a month for T and pray they will pay the 40k for a bypass surgery if that need should ever arise

[system admin]

Pretty good stuff from a lot of you. Our current administration has done nothing but lie, hide, fudge, misrepresent, etc...

Time will tell and none of us will have to debate soon enough.


Here is something on Humana website that shows that testosterone is not covered:

https://www.humana.com/insurance-thr...ols/drug-list/

Click Drug List Search

Type in "Testosterone" and search.

Choose "Rx4" or "Rx3" and search.

I dont have much more than this at the moment, but its a start to get to the bottom of it.

[system admin]

Notices just now went out so website may not be fully updated on what is or is not covered. I have a call into my cousin who owns an insurance company and they are researching further.

Bc

[Beethoven]

Couldn't agree more B!

It's also the only place we're allowed to be 100% or more. Employees screw up, can't freak out. Kids screw up, gotta stay calm. Wife becomes irrational, gotta calm her down. List goes on and on. In the weight room however, no holding back. AMEN

In regards to insurance, I must chime in with a lot less researched and educated views, Everyone feel free to pounce : )..

I get that trt is sometimes not covered. My insurance won't help because my numbers were above 300 so therefore they must see it as a quality of life issue, this is true.Y

I could survive without it, I choose not too. They cover pain pills for me, odd because that's also a quality of life issue. I take vitamins, those aren't covered. My protein isn't covered nor is my gym membership.

Those statements are a stretch but I get the dilemma for both sides, it's not black and white like some are making it out to be.

I'll pay the 40 a month for T and pray they will pay the 40k for a bypass surgery if that need should ever arise

You're right it is a quality of life issue, although there have been studies that show low t can have adverse effects on the body as well. These were originally told to me a Dr I had a long time ago way before I ever came across this site. There has been studies posted on this site that confirmed what he had said to me. Test is not covered and that's fine, but if you also take away the BW associated with getting dialed in because of new regulations or cut backs, THAT does present a problem. One could argue that BW while getting dialed in is the most costly part of it, and in my case a vital part. Once you're dialed in you don't need that much but every time you make a change in your protocol, BW is the best way to see what's going on, not to mention keeping on top of your hematocrit levels and such. Now that the ambulance chasers have targeted trt patients, not covering BW is an open door for complications to the trt patient, law suits galore for the lawyers, a black eye again for "steroids" which we will be lumped in with. In short a disaster for us.

[system admin]

I think steroids will be decriminalized in the next 10 years. We shall see.

[Score]

You're right it is a quality of life issue, although there have been studies that show low t can have adverse effects on the body as well. These were originally told to me a Dr I had a long time ago way before I ever came across this site. There has been studies posted on this site that confirmed what he had said to me. Test is not covered and that's fine, but if you also take away the BW associated with getting dialed in because of new regulations or cut backs, THAT does present a problem. One could argue that BW while getting dialed in is the most costly part of it, and in my case a vital part. Once you're dialed in you don't need that much but every time you make a change in your protocol, BW is the best way to see what's going on, not to mention keeping on top of your hematocrit levels and such. Now that the ambulance chasers have targeted trt patients, not covering BW is an open door for complications to the trt patient, law suits galore for the lawyers, a black eye again for "steroids" which we will be lumped in with. In short a disaster for us.

I think I'm catching on to a problem...

My original BW was written as yearly physical. Have had any follow up yet, your saying that's where I'm going to get hit?

[kelkel]

I think steroids will be decriminalized in the next 10 years. We shall see.

As they should be. But I think it's too much of a political football. Lyle Alzado ruined it for everyone.