HCG: Why you should use it on-cycle only & how to prepare your hCG for injections

[austinite]

hi dear austinite ,i have a one question about hcg during cycle , i know timing doesn't matter but for example if i inject one dose of test in Saturday 8 am should i inject hct and test at the same time ? or take test at Saturday 8 am and hcg 8:30 am ? or take test at am and hcg at pm ? or maybe take test at Saturday 8 am and take hcg at Sunday 8 am ? what is the best plan that you suggesting ?

Devil, it does not matter when you take hCG. Just be consistent.

[deegee71]

Austinite I have 10000 unit vial. Per direction says to mix 5ml of bac water. My needles are .5 ml/cc . so by your formula 10000 divided by 5ml back is 2000. 2000 divided by 100 units is 20. So 20 on my needles is 250 units of hcg?

[deegee71]

The bac water vial has 10ml in it. Maybe I should just put the whole 10ml in the 10000 unit vial of hcg to make it easier and just do 25 on needle

[EasyDoesIt]

The bac water vial has 10ml in it. Maybe I should just put the whole 10ml in the 10000 unit vial of hcg to make it easier and just do 25 on needle

If the vial will hold it you can. If instructions say to 5ml it may not hold it. Just go with HALF of dosage if you cut bad water in half, thats all there is to it.

[Rellim]

If you have 5mls of water and then dissolve it with 5000 IU's of hcg we now have a new volume of liquid that is no longer 5mls.

However we are dealing with such small amounts that the difference wont be enough to cause any harm, the difference would be negligible.

EDIT-After a rough calculation the difference in volume would be sooo tiny that this post should be ignored.

[MODO]

Hey austinite,

I'm taking HCG 214 IU e3d (for a total of 500 IU/wk)... about half way done my cycle and noticing some testicular atrophy. Is this unavoidable? Or a sign that my HCG is too low?

Thanks

[austinite]

Hey austinite,

I'm taking HCG 214 IU e3d (for a total of 500 IU/wk)... about half way done my cycle and noticing some testicular atrophy. Is this unavoidable? Or a sign that my HCG is too low?

Thanks

Should not have atrophy on hCG. Increase dose. No more than 500iu at any given time.

[Kirruha]

Hi Austinite! Thank you for the info you are sharing!
I am running my first cycle based on your advises. 16.03 had a first shot of test cyp 250ME and since then had a feeling that something squeezes my balls ))) yesterday had a shot of 250 ME of HCG – at that moment it was like a relief – discomfort was gone and even today when I did second test cyp injection – nothing alike.
Just wanted to ask – is there any timing protocol for test and HCG injections? Can I do both in a same day or should I separate shots?

[EasyDoesIt]

Many of the questions asked here have been answered repeatedly. This entire thread needs to be read through if you are new to reading it.
http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...ml#post6823601

[Kirruha]

Start using it from week 1. Timing does not matter, just spread it out. For cycling, 250 iu two to three times weekly will suffice. Do not use hCG back to back.

missed that =)

[Docd187123]

Start using it from week 1. Timing does not matter, just spread it out. For cycling, 250 iu two to three times weekly will suffice. Do not use hCG back to back.

missed that =)

Timing does matter just not that much unless you're on TRT.

[austinite]

Timing does matter just not that much unless you're on TRT.

When I speak of timing, I am referring to timing hCG with respect to Testosterone. That absolutely, 100% does not matter on cycle (literally, zero relevance). You can inject both the same days without any issues whatsoever.

If you're referring to timing between injections, then yes, should be approximately even apart. Obviously you don't want to inject 3 days in a row and then not for 4 days.

On a side note.... you're a slut. And so is kelkel.

[Docd187123]

When I speak of timing, I am referring to timing hCG with respect to Testosterone. That absolutely, 100% does not matter on cycle (literally, zero relevance). You can inject both the same days without any issues whatsoever.

If you're referring to timing between injections, then yes, should be approximately even apart. Obviously you don't want to inject 3 days in a row and then not for 4 days.

On a side note.... you're a slut. And so is kelkel.

On a diagonally backwards inside out note...I'm content being one

[MR10X]

The size of your balls is not an indicator of whether they are producing testosterone.Only about 3% of your balls produce testosterone the rest of it produces sperm. the outer layer is the cells that produce testosterone.

[jude662]

Thank you for this. I've been paranoid about storing hcg, after hearing all kinds of crap about it "going bad" at room temperature.

[Elijah V]

So what if you live in Australia? Is it still worth cycling with the absence of HCG? Getting HCG here isn't the same as walking into a clinic in America unfortunately. It's very close to impossible getting your hands on HCG. Are there any Australians on this board who use HCG in their protocol?

[kronik420]

So what if you live in Australia? Is it still worth cycling with the absence of HCG? Getting HCG here isn't the same as walking into a clinic in America unfortunately. It's very close to impossible getting your hands on HCG. Are there any Australians on this board who use HCG in their protocol?

Hcg is hard to find yes.. but not impossible..

[JuiceBox7]

Great read!

[NoBulkNoCutJustGrow]

Great read Austinite thanks for the info. Got a quick question when you can; I need to take a maintenance dose of Tamoxifen at 10mg a day to prevent any onset gyno which I've been prone to before during cycle. Would this combination of Tamoxifen and HCG cause an over-stimulation of the leydig cells even at just 10mg a day and 500 iu/week respectively? Or would these compounds still be functional and beneficial in synergy? Thanks again for the info and the help.

[austinite]

double post.

[austinite]

Great read Austinite thanks for the info. Got a quick question when you can; I need to take a maintenance dose of Tamoxifen at 10mg a day to prevent any onset gyno which I've been prone to before during cycle. Would this combination of Tamoxifen and HCG cause an over-stimulation of the leydig cells even at just 10mg a day and 500 iu/week respectively? Or would these compounds still be functional and beneficial in synergy? Thanks again for the info and the help.

Tamoxifen has nothing to do with Leydig cells. Tamoxifen works in the head to restart your hypothalamus and pituitary so that LH and FSH are produced. LH then stimulates leydig cells, but it's natural production, not LH analog which is mimicked by hCG and bypasses pituitary.

The answer to your question is No.

Synergy? No. They should not be used simultaneously. Tamoxifen trys to restart and hCG is suppressive. Counter-productivity at its finest.

[NoBulkNoCutJustGrow]

Tamoxifen has nothing to do with Leydig cells. Tamoxifen works in the head to restart your hypothalamus and pituitary so that LH and FSH are produced. LH then stimulates leydig cells, but it's natural production, not LH analog which is mimicked by hCG and bypasses pituitary.

The answer to your question is No.

Synergy? No. They should not be used simultaneously. Tamoxifen trys to restart and hCG is suppressive. Counter-productivity at its finest.

Ahh now I see things more clearly in regards to the actions of Tamoxifen. Although you say it's counter productive but wouldn't we want our pituitary to be stimulated throughout the cycle so when it comes to PCT the recovery would be faster? Even though we're introducing analog LH wouldn't it be beneficial to keep the pituitary and the Hypothalamus active in that regard?

I say that because I've been reading and finding conflicting info regarding this. For example:

Tamoxifen Blocks HCG Induced Leydig Cell Desensitization
HCG induced testicular desensitization seems to be a hot topic. There are a number of studies showing that concomitant use of Nolvadex ameliorates this. The first abstract suggests that HCG at least partially blocks the conversion of 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone (17 OHP), a testosterone precursor, to testosterone. This effect is suppressed by Nolvadex.

The second abstract seems to indicate that estrogen may not be the only culprit, since Nolvadex plus HCG does not increase T levels any more than HCG alone, even though the combination reduces desensitization.

Since we are trying to avoid this desensitization so when we quit the HCG our testes respond to our endogenous LH, it makes sense to always use nolvadex with HCG to at least help the problem, if not solve it completely.


J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1980 Nov;51(5):1026-9

Tamoxifen suppresses gonadotropin-induced 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone accumulation in normal men.

Smals AG, Pieters GF, Drayer JI, Boers GH, Benraad TJ, Kloppenborg PW.

Intramuscular administration of 1500 IU hCG daily for 3 days induced a transient accumulation of 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone (17 OHP) relative to testosterone (T) in normal men, reaching its maximum 24 h after the first injection (17 OHP to T ratio, 1.7 +/- 0.3 times baseline; P < 0.01). Simultaneous administration of hCG and the estrogen antagonist tamoxifen (20 mg twice daily) almost completely abolished the hCG-induced steroidogenic block localized between 17 OHP and T (17 OHP to T ratio at 24 h, 1.1 +/- 0.1 times baseline; P < 0.01 vs. hCG alone). These data indirectly suggest that, in man, the hCG-induced steroidogenic lesion might be mediated through its estrogen-stimulating effect.

It also appears that a low dose of Tamoxifen might help with any desensitization that might occur which is something we definitely do not want.

Any thoughts?

[austinite]

^ No. Tamox will not impact leydig cells the way hCG does.

And no, you don't want pituitary "stimulated" on cycle, testosterone or whatever steroid you're taking is shutting it down hard. Makes no sense really.

There's a million and one studies, many of which are easily debunked. Not everyone has to agree, but I can tell you that I don't know many people that dove into this topic as much as I have, and researched and tested most material as much as I have. This article is not just a "Collection" of crap from the net like every other article online, its tried and true.

Your job is to use whatever info you can to make an informed decision.

[Currupted]

Ausitine,

Beautiful post .. loved the info and comments ive gone through the whole thing ... im dealing with a hard issue and need your advice.

Im currently on a sust/mast cycle and need to introduce HCG twice a week at 250IU ( Saturday / Wednesday ) my problem is I cant get any bac water in this part of the world ... and the HCG is sold in a 1ML vial with a 1ML solution which is 5000IU

and that's basically the only thing I can get that is pharma grade and direct from pharmacy ... no one here has bac water and if you ask for it they look at you like your asking for something impossible.. they don't sell empty sterile vials either.

so what I was thinking is I would buy 3 packs so I will have the 3ML of bac water. mix 1ML wth the powder and put it into a 5ML syringe ... then draw a additional 1.5ML water from the other 2 packs I got and throw away their powder.

so ill end up with 2.5ML of liquid that I can use a slin syringe to draw from the original 5ML syringe that im storing the solution in. ( is this fine ? ) using a syringe to store the HCG? I really don't have many other options.

So ill end up drawing .125cc on a slin pin to get my 250IU twice a week.

sound good? or have other suggestions ?

[EasyDoesIt]

Ausitine,

Beautiful post .. loved the info and comments ive gone through the whole thing ... im dealing with a hard issue and need your advice.

Im currently on a sust/mast cycle and need to introduce HCG twice a week at 250IU ( Saturday / Wednesday ) my problem is I cant get any bac water in this part of the world ... and the HCG is sold in a 1ML vial with a 1ML solution which is 5000IU

and that's basically the only thing I can get that is pharma grade and direct from pharmacy ... no one here has bac water and if you ask for it they look at you like your asking for something impossible.. they don't sell empty sterile vials either.

so what I was thinking is I would buy 3 packs so I will have the 3ML of bac water. mix 1ML wth the powder and put it into a 5ML syringe ... then draw a additional 1.5ML water from the other 2 packs I got and throw away their powder.

so ill end up with 2.5ML of liquid that I can use a slin syringe to draw from the original 5ML syringe that im storing the solution in. ( is this fine ? ) using a syringe to store the HCG? I really don't have many other options.

So ill end up drawing .125cc on a slin pin to get my 250IU twice a week.

sound good? or have other suggestions ?

Not to answer for Austinite, but in case you get anxious and start the process, most hcg i have bought is not accompanied with bac water, its sodium chloride or purified water and that lasts only a couple days, so check the label before you do anything. HCG can be stored in syringes, but not all of it in one if you were planning on refrigerating and re using? You would need to load each syringe and refrigerate them. I would have a strong suspicion your hcg came with sodium chloride.

[austinite]

^ right on, EDI.

You could always use injectable B12 or make your own BAC water. Super easy.

[Currupted]

ok so I can walk in a pharmacy and get injectable B12 ... they also come in 1ML amps >.>

ill check the amp in my pregnyl when I get back ... but most likely its going to be what you said .. sodium chloride

you said I can make my own bac water? this worries me ... I wouldn't even trust eating eggs if I made them .. never mind making my own injectable substance. id be worried like hell about this.. but you wanna explain t anyway?

[austinite]

ok so I can walk in a pharmacy and get injectable B12 ... they also come in 1ML amps >.>

ill check the amp in my pregnyl when I get back ... but most likely its going to be what you said .. sodium chloride

you said I can make my own bac water? this worries me ... I wouldn't even trust eating eggs if I made them .. never mind making my own injectable substance. id be worried like hell about this.. but you wanna explain t anyway?

No not really. There are many threads on making BAC water. Hit the search button my friend.

[Currupted]

Done. Thanks anyway

[acetrentura]

This should really be a sticky.

[babarrr]

Benefits of hCG during your cycle:

1. Prevention of testicular atrophy.
-- This is done by mimicking LH and restarting natural testosterone production in the testes.


Austinite, you are saying that use HCG during your cycle to avoid atrophy. That means on one side we are shrinking the testes by injecting AAS and then avoiding shrinkage by HCG. Will it not confuse the hell out of our body?

[austinite]

Benefits of hCG during your cycle:

1. Prevention of testicular atrophy.
-- This is done by mimicking LH and restarting natural testosterone production in the testes.


Austinite, you are saying that use HCG during your cycle to avoid atrophy. That means on one side we are shrinking the testes by injecting AAS and then avoiding shrinkage by HCG. Will it not confuse the hell out of our body?

No. Your hypothalamus and pituitary are shut down regardless. hCG mimics LH analog, it's not secreting LH at the pituitary.

Give this a read when you have time: http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...ffect-you.html

[babarrr]

Thanks for a quick reply.
I am just wondering if i use HCG 10 days after my Test E last shot for 10 consecutive days. Do you think i can bring LH to a requied level as if i were using it during the cycle? i have read some articles in this forums that suggest to use HCG 500iu-1000iu ED for 10 days. Comparing this dose to suggested by you, this seems way too high?

[austinite]

As stated in the article, I do not recommend hCG post cycle. It will do nothing for bringing LH back. SERMs bring LH back, hCG is suppressive. On cycle only.

[babarrr]

Makes sense. Just a final curiosity, can we use Test-E shot, HCG shot and AI the same day?

[austinite]

Makes sense. Just a final curiosity, can we use Test-E shot, HCG shot and AI the same day?

Yes. You can inject Test and hCG together.

[babarrr]

Great Post and helpful answers. Thanks a lot again.

[hackskii]

If hCG is not used during cycle, then it absolutely can be used with good success post cycle.

Sure hCG will inhibit LH, but that can be brought back in weeks time with clomid.
Clomid at 100mg ED for 5 to 7 days doubles LH function and can increase FSH by 20% to 50%.
Not to mention of a SERM is taken during hCG therapy FSH will come back within range prior to stopping hCG.

Using a SERM instead of hCG post cycle can add months to the mix of recovery.
Testicular function takes many times longer to achieve than pituitary function.
Bring the nuts back first, then use SERMS you will recover faster.

[austinite]

If hCG is not used during cycle, then it absolutely can be used with good success post cycle.

Sure hCG will inhibit LH, but that can be brought back in weeks time with clomid.
Clomid at 100mg ED for 5 to 7 days doubles LH function and can increase FSH by 20% to 50%.
Not to mention of a SERM is taken during hCG therapy FSH will come back within range prior to stopping hCG.

Using a SERM instead of hCG post cycle can add months to the mix of recovery.
Testicular function takes many times longer to achieve than pituitary function.
Bring the nuts back first, then use SERMS you will recover faster.

Not true at all. You are not thinking of steroid abuse, which is what we all do here. Your info is ancient and should be updated. I don't think you understand how any of this works. Check the HPTA explanation thread to understand further.

[hackskii]

Not true at all. You are not thinking of steroid abuse, which is what we all do here. Your info is ancient and should be updated. I don't think you understand how any of this works. Check the HPTA explanation thread to understand further.

Really?
I have been posting on this subject for 10 years, I clearly grasp the concept.

Just for clarity sake let me ask you some questions.

Are you saying post cycle that a SERM will recover the testicular axis as fast as hCG?
I mean for testicular function you are alluding to a SERM working as fast and as good as hCG is this correct?

How long does it take using a SERM to get testicular funciton if one is shut down?

How long does the pituitary take to fire up using a SERM when shut down?

Please feel free to go into as much detail as you can, you wont lose me along the way.