British Dragon Quality Control Problems

[meso-rx]

It seems that quite a few people became quite defensive when I stated that some of the British Dragon products I tested were significantly underdosed. Rarely do people doubt me when I mention such things. Even William Llewellyn posted some lab reports of underdosed British Dragon products in his new book, Anabolics 2005.

So, why the defensiveness? I don't know you tell me if this type of information is appreciated here on A.R.

I'm attaching two significantly underdosed lab reports AND two significantly overdosed lab reports. Any one will tell that a company has quality control problem when this kind of stuff happens. Anyone except for those trying to sell the product to you.

I do hope British Dragon resolves their quality control issues. After all, that is one of the main reasons why I'm spending tens of thousands of dollars to test androgen products. Someone needs to hold pharmaceutical companies accountable for what's in their products. If someone is checking up on their quality control, perhaps they will be more careful in the future.

I hope consumers and members of A.R. find this information useful.

[system admin]

Thank you for the unbias post.

bc

[511220]

Would one assume that if his gear matches manufacturing dates of the tested vials, that the concentration is probably the same?

511220

[jbol]

from what i understand the issue has been resolved for sometime now and dont see why one would think that this has happened to every batch.

[the original jason]

you obviously came here to cause trouble, i ask again, where did your posts come from??? 900 posts per day??

the lab tests i have posted are just a few of the ones i got, but they were not identified as bd tablets just so tehre was no bias, these were sent in by an independant person.

but ok i give in, bd are crap


now listen carefully everyone, dont ever use bd again!!!

[meso-rx]

you obviously came here to cause trouble, i ask again, where did your posts come from??? 900 posts per day??

Why don't you ask your boss why I came here? Or where my posts came from? He knows.

He called me and personally invited me to contribute to this great forum.

[meso-rx]

Let me ask an open question to all who read this thread and your attacks against me:

What do I have to gain by posting lab reports that show that some British Dragon products are underdosed and some are overdosed.

This is objective, verifiable information that quite honestly cost me a lot of money.

I come here and share this information with the members of Anabolic Review.

I think my posts regarding British Dragon and quality control have been very objective and unbiased.

OTOH, with all due respect to you, you are coming across as extremely defensive and over-eager to promote the quality of British Dragon.

What do YOU have to gain by your actions?

[jbol]

I have nothing to gain........I just dont see how you judge the quality of a company by giving their products lab tests 1 time.....as ive stated time and time again the results that I and others have had with bd products speak for themselves.

[the original jason]

Why don't you ask your boss why I came here? Or where my posts came from? He knows.

He called me and personally invited me to contribute to this great forum.

are you saying he contacted you and asked you to come here and rubbish britishdragon? or you just thought seeing as your here, you would do that??

i know bd have had issues, ive never denied it, i stand up for them as i beleive they are a good company, you attack someone that brings a whole load of new products and ideas to the bbing community.. so expect to have a little retaliation

[bluestrm]

"Someone needs to hold pharmaceutical companies accountable for what's in their products."

They are an underground lab, not a pharmaceutical company. And why would you personally waste "tens of thousands of dollars" testing anyones stuff? What do you have to gain from posting lab results?

[meso-rx]

are you saying he contacted you and asked you to come here and rubbish britishdragon? or you just thought seeing as your here, you would do that??

The owner of Anabolic Review asked me to come to the board and honest, truthful information. You see, I've know the owner a long time and we both believe in providing our members with unbiased, objective information regarding anabolic-androgenics steroids and the steroid industry.

What is the motivation behind your posts?

For the record, I'm not going out of my way to attack British Dragon. If you want my personal opinion on this company, here it is - British Dragon is probably one of the best steroid-producing companies out there.

But facts are facts. And the facts speak for themselves. Some of their products were underdosed. Some were overdosed. The unavoidable, undeniable conclusion is that there have been quality control problems.

In no way are quality control issues limited to British Dragon - it is a major problem with all pharmaceutical and veterinarian products channelled into the black market.

[the original jason]

The owner of Anabolic Review asked me to come to the board and honest, truthful information. You see, I've know the owner a long time and we both believe in providing our members with unbiased, objective information regarding anabolic-androgenics steroids and the steroid industry.

so again did he ask you to come and rubbish britishdragon? i feel you have motives hence my questions, i have been providing and helping members on this site since it started, im not gonna change now

What is the motivation behind your posts?

my motivation is that i have been paid off by britishdragon with a free gear for life policy if i stand up and make them sound great when they are actually crap

in all honesty, i have got to know the guys, they are as honest as can be, dont want to fuk anyone, provide a service to the aas community, are receptive to criticism, and run about the best operation around, are they good enough reasons for you?

For the record, I'm not going out of my way to attack British Dragon. If you want my personal opinion on this company, here it is - British Dragon is probably one of the best steroid-producing companies out there.

all of your posts relate to putting down britishdragon, thats obvious, so who is the next company on your hit list then ?? did u go in alphabetical order?

But facts are facts. And the facts speak for themselves. Some of their products were underdosed. Some were overdosed. The unavoidable, undeniable conclusion is that there have been quality control problems.

In no way are quality control issues limited to British Dragon - it is a major problem with all pharmaceutical and veterinarian products channelled into the black market.

i have never denied any issues, i have even posted myself about poor lab test results, im sure you wil agree i can easily delete them and try to hide them, but i dont, people should know whats going on, i just will still state my point of view..

peace

[meso-rx]

I have nothing to gain........I just dont see how you judge the quality of a company by giving their products lab tests 1 time.....as ive stated time and time again the results that I and others have had with bd products speak for themselves.

I post objective data on the company's products. I don't have to make any judgments. The data speaks for itself. Some products have been overdosed. Some underdosed. It doesn't take much thought to interpret these results.

I've never condemned British Dragon as a lousy company. The irrational defensiveness of certain members of this board may make it seem as such. I just simply posted some objective data.

I personally think British Dragon is one of the better companies out there. But it doesn't mean they are free of quality control problems. Why should they be given a pass? Why should any company with quality control problems be given a pass?

One time testing of a company's products can determine if there are quality control issues. This is sufficient to provide useful data. That's all it takes.

Ideally, each company's products should be tested on a regular basis over time. This will provide more detailed and complete information regarding the company.

For example, do they consistently underdose (or overdose) their products? Do their products meet label claim 9 out of 10 times? Or do they fail label claims every single time? Is quality control improving? Is quality control getting worse?

These are the types of questions that can be answered with regular, repeated testing.

Quality control problems can be identified with one time testing.

[meso-rx]

so again did he ask you to come and rubbish britishdragon?

Actually, yes. He called me again today and told me to post my lab reports. I guess my motives are the same as the owner of this board. Objective truth.

[jbol]

I post objective data on the company's products. I don't have to make any judgments. The data speaks for itself. Some products have been overdosed. Some underdosed. It doesn't take much thought to interpret these results.

I've never condemned British Dragon as a lousy company. The irrational defensiveness of certain members of this board may make it seem as such. I just simply posted some objective data.

I personally think British Dragon is one of the better companies out there. But it doesn't mean they are free of quality control problems. Why should they be given a pass? Why should any company with quality control problems be given a pass?

One time testing of a company's products can determine if there are quality control issues. This is sufficient to provide useful data. That's all it takes.

Ideally, each company's products should be tested on a regular basis over time. This will provide more detailed and complete information regarding the company.

For example, do they consistently underdose (or overdose) their products? Do their products meet label claim 9 out of 10 times? Or do they fail label claims every single time? Is quality control improving? Is quality control getting worse?

These are the types of questions that can be answered with regular, repeated testing.

Quality control problems can be identified with one time testing.

I couldnt agree more about being tested on a regular basis....I think that is the only way to go.......so whos to say that the underdosing or overdosing wasnt a one time thing,without doing tests on a regular basis.Im not saying it was,but the one time that you did your test could of been the one time since the company has been around that the underdosing or overdosing occured.

[meso-rx]

And why would you personally waste "tens of thousands of dollars" testing anyones stuff? What do you have to gain from posting lab results?

I don't think I said "waste". I hope not. I'm sorry if you feel this is a waste of money.

For that matter, I've spent several hundred thousand dollars on content for my website to educate readers about anabolic-androgenic steroids. So, another ten thousand or so for more "content" is no big deal.

You'd think people would appreciate someone putting their money where there mouth is.

What do I have to gain from posting lab results? Well, apparently not much on Anabolic Review. It seems that such content is not appreciated here. My mistake.

[jc3]

I sure don't wanna get my newbie *ss in trouble here. I do know that I appreciate info from everyone who is providing it. Ultimately it is up to whoever is going to make the decision to use or not use, who to use, and how to do it. Thanks to both of you for your input....JC

[meso-rx]

all of your posts relate to putting down britishdragon, thats obvious, so who is the next company on your hit list then ?? did u go in alphabetical order?

Well, quite honestly I made one post about British Dragon. And simply forgot about. But then I see you attacking me, trying to discredit my posts, and then dismissing any objective lab reports I posted. So I responded.

You can blame only yourself for keeping the issue alive.

If you agree with me that British Dragon had some underdosed problems but have since returned to higher quality control standards, then you could have simply acknowledged the truth in my post. And we all could have moved on.

But no - you decided to try and discredit me.

Sorry, I won't quietly sit back and allow someone try to tarnish my credibility.

[meso-rx]

I couldnt agree more about being tested on a regular basis....I think that is the only way to go.......so whos to say that the underdosing or overdosing wasnt a one time thing,without doing tests on a regular basis.Im not saying it was,but the one time that you did your test could of been the one time since the company has been around that the underdosing or overdosing occured.

Exactly. I just point out the fact that it did occur. To ignore or to dismiss these results would be irresponsible.

It just happened to be unfortunate timing for British Dragon.

It very well could have been a one-time thing.

When I do additional testing of British Dragon, I will let you guys know.

[meso-rx]

in all honesty, i have got to know the guys, they are as honest as can be, dont want to fuk anyone, provide a service to the aas community, are receptive to criticism, and run about the best operation around, are they good enough reasons for you?

That's fine. I just wanted to know your bias. Thanks for the honesty.

[BDTR]

No one is saying BD is perfect, but i've just about tried every brand the world has to offer, and i'll tell you one thing, I choose BD over it all. What Jason is trying to get at is, you seem to really have it in for BD, and he's curious as to why. Every lab has a bad batch, its no secret. I have used BD sucesfully for quite some time, with no problems.

[the original jason]

Well, quite honestly I made one post about British Dragon. And simply forgot about. But then I see you attacking me, trying to discredit my posts, and then dismissing any objective lab reports I posted.

You can blame only yourself for keeping the issue alive.

at one point you had made 12 posts, 10 of them were rubbishing britishdragon its probably gone up but been watered down a little, yes i keep the issue alive, i have nothing to hide.

If you agree with me that British Dragon had some underdosed problems but have since returned to higher quality control standards, then you could have simply acknowledged the truth in my post. And we all could have moved on.

But no - you decided to try and discredit me.

i have said this many times, do you expect to post something like that and no one even replies, im sure you woudnt have that on your board either, if you beleive in someone

Sorry, I won't quietly sit back and allow someone try to tarnish my credibility.

and what exactly are you trying to do yourself?? tarnish someones cred

if i join another board and jump on with your attitude and with motives like you, i would expect confrontation also, if you dont like the heat, you know what they say bro, obviously i will stand up for them

alot of people know me here also, im honest as can be, i just stand up for what i beleive in and speak my mind

peace

[system admin]

Wow... I figured the members would appreciate the lab results as great information. I dont see the need to attack anyone. I asked him here because of his knowlege on AAS and the industry. I have know Meso-rx for several years and have known him to be honest and up front. I did not see this coming at all. I am happy that we have people in this community that will spend their own money to find out the quality of the products we INJECT INTO OUR BODIES. That is a big deal. I think that BD has some great products and Meso has stated the same. I hope this can turn into a better thread. I feel honored to have you here Meso. Thanks for being up front as usual. Let us know how the new lab test look if you do any more in the future. We should all be thankful that people like him are here to help. I am a little embarrassed.

Bc

[jbol]

Exactly. I just point out the fact that it did occur. To ignore or to dismiss these results would be irresponsible.

It just happened to be unfortunate timing for British Dragon.

It very well could have been a one-time thing.

When I do additional testing of British Dragon, I will let you guys know.

glad we agree on something and I am sure you will find better results in your next lab tests........Oh and BTW welcome to the board.

[meso-rx]

No one is saying BD is perfect, but i've just about tried every brand the world has to offer, and i'll tell you one thing, I choose BD over it all. What Jason is trying to get at is, you seem to really have it in for BD, and he's curious as to why. Every lab has a bad batch, its no secret. I have used BD sucesfully for quite some time, with no problems.

Holy ****! I don't have it in for BD!!

If I had to choose from what was readily available on the black market, I'd probably go with British Dragon. They have the widest selection of products and for the most part their products are good.

But some products have were underdosed. Some are overdosed. This is simply a fact.

I'm not out to get BD. I have no interest in that. The only thing I'm interested now is counteracting the total irrational biases that ignore reality on this board.

[the original jason]

Wow... I figured the members would appreciate the lab results as great information. I dont see the need to attack anyone. I asked him here because of his knowlege on AAS and the industry. I have know Meso-rx for several years and have known him to be honest and up front. I did not see this coming at all. I am happy that we have people in this community that will spend their own money to find out the quality of the products we INJECT INTO OUR BODIES. That is a big deal. I think that BD has some great products and Meso has stated the same. I hope this can turn into a better thread. I feel honored to have you here Meso. Thanks for being up front as usual. Let us know how the new lab test look if you do any more in the future. We should all be thankful that people like him are here to help. I am a little embarrassed.

thx for clearing that up

[511220]

Meso, I'd assume you have other labs analysis to post with the statement...

"Tens of thousands of dollars to test"

Maybe if some of the other labs are posted up as well it wont look so one sided on smashing BD.

just my $.02

[meso-rx]

alot of people know me here also, im honest as can be, i just stand up for what i beleive in and speak my mind

peace

What exactly do you believe? You just seem to be arguing for the sake of argument.

The whole essence of all my posts is this:

Some lab reports showed BD products underdosed.

Some lab reports showed BD products overdosed.

This is a quality control issue.

That's all I've been saying - nothing more, nothing less.

This is an objective fact.

Why would anyone have a problem with this?

[the original jason]

Why would anyone have a problem with this?

lets get to the point, what do you think my motive is?

[system admin]

What exactly do you believe? You just seem to be arguing for the sake of argument.

The whole essence of all my posts is this:

Some lab reports showed BD products underdosed.

Some lab reports showed BD products overdosed.

This is a quality control issue.

That's all I've been saying - nothing more, nothing less.

This is an objective fact.

Why would anyone have a problem with this?

I am surprised no one is looking at the bigger issue here. It is not so much BD as it is the quality control issues of MANY vet and ugl companies. That is all this is thread is about. If we allowed these guys to get away with bad quaility control issues on a daily basis... were would the black market be??

bc

[the original jason]

btw im the one speaking up, doesnt mean im the only one who thinks this

[system admin]

I wish more people would speak up on both sides. "Your not going to get banned"

bc

[jbol]

I wish more people would speak up on both sides. "Your not going to get banned"

bc

ive said my piece.

[meso-rx]

Meso, I'd assume you have other labs analysis to post with the statement...

"Tens of thousands of dollars to test"

Maybe if some of the other labs are posted up as well it wont look so one sided on smashing BD.

just my $.02

Sorry, I have several other manufacturers that I had planned on posting here. I thought it would be well received. You guys proved me wrong. I simply don't have time to waste arguing points of fact.

Just ask your source and trust his info on what is in the vials he sells to you. I'm sure he won't lead you astray. I'm done helping you guys on lab reports.

[jbol]

Sorry, I have several other manufacturers that I had planned on posting here. I thought it would be well received. You guys proved me wrong. I simply don't have time to waste arguing points of fact.

Just ask your source and trust his info on what is in the vials he sells to you. I'm sure he won't lead you astray. I'm done helping you guys on lab reports.

bro.......that does make you sound bias youll post bad bd tests,but no others.

[mass junkie]

I wish more people would speak up on both sides. "Your not going to get banned"

bc

well then if thats the case, Im glad to finally see someone put TOJ in his place..

He's got to be the most miserible member to ever mod a forum!!!

[the original jason]

Sorry, I have several other manufacturers that I had planned on posting here. I thought it would be well received. You guys proved me wrong. I simply don't have time to waste arguing points of fact.

now that is a very convenient answer, you are discrediting yourself there bro...if you simply gonna run away at the site of confrontation, what does that say for the reliability of your information??

I am not gonna sit down and let this go on, i speak my mind, sorry you dont like that or take it as an insult its not meant to be, i would argue the same point with anyone else, it just so happens other people are also helping load the bullets and im the one firing them, i guess thats my own fault.

it makes me look like the only person posting, and i guess i am, which leaves me feeling pretty alone in my trying to protect a good name.

I guess your right, i should have just said nothing you can come and post what you want about who you want, thanks for your time.

I would truly like to see the other lab reports from other companies so if you can be so kind

peace

[511220]

I am surprised no one is looking at the bigger issue here. It is not so much BD as it is the quality control issues of MANY vet and ugl companies. That is all this is thread is about. If we allowed these guys to get away with bad quaility control issues on a daily basis... were would the black market be??

bc

Your on point BC..

So where are the other UGL's reports? Wouldn’t it be at the very least a little less biased and a little more professional to put several, or at least a few up at the same time. A comparative analysis so to speak of what's really out there in terms of QC.

Starting a thread with a thumbs down on an issue even OJ himself has already brought to the board, seems a bit abrasive IMO...

Why the redundancy and exclusivity with BD? Seems odd...

[LORDBLiTZ]

Like bdtr said, every lab has a bad batch. Big deal. I'd use BD products any day of the week.

[GT996]

It doesn't seem to be an issue of motives or bias. The products where tested and the results where posted. A few people have argued this is an isolated event, only further testing will confirm this. All we can do is let the test results speak for themselves and let individuals who use the products make up their minds as to the validity of the claim. However I am anxious to see the results of further testing.