Strength going DOWN!!!

[forsz]

I M revising earlier post in the hope that someone would PLEASE HELP. I M exactly 5 wks into my 1st cycle with Test as base and i have unusual prob. I M early 40s 5'10" 200Lbs. I was hoping to do 10 week very lean cycle with good strength gains. I started of doing 400-450 Mg/Wk Test ( bec i added Prop to the Cyp to "jump-start") with 20Mg/D Var and 25Mcg/D of Cytomel. As U can C , I prefer to keep the doses low and hope for a synergistic stack. I strongly want to avoid need for ancillaries until PCT. I planned to go to only 300Mg/Wk Test after the 1st few Wks. Well, roughly 2 wks in i had an infection problem and figured i might have to abort cycle. So i cut the T3 and Var and stayed on ONLY 300Mg/Wk Test. In spite of the Var & T3; i ADDED 2% bodyfat in the 1st few weeks-- all around my midsection, while gaining at most 2 Lbs overall !!!!! Could it B estrogenic side Fx ( tendency toward fat storage) ?? My diet and routine R the same (except for some added protein) My muscles SEEM to be just as hard now as when i started. Also , i got rebound fatigue when i came off the T3. I only wanted to lay down in bed; but i forced myself to maintain a typically intense wrkt regimen. I got NO strength gains until wk 3-4 (and little muscle mass overall ) ..... but i've been stagnant now for 1 week+ . No more gains whatsoever. I know the test is good bec i really believe in the source; and my libido has been high the whole time, whereas it usually gets this high now and then for 1 week at a time. I've read many posts about users not seeing gains for 5-6wks, but I M concerned bec i put on the fat early and hit plateau now. I really hope to make good gains on only 300 bec I M still wary about the infection prob. I shot again into my glute 3 days ago for the 1st time since my prob and there seems to be hardenning ( but not unusually painful) again DOES ANYONE BELIEVE I WILL STILL MAKE GOOD GAINS IF I STICK WITH THE 300/WK ?? If i must increase; would it B better to Increase the Test or add Var?? Or should i try adding Clen (which i haven't tried yet). Now 1 day later: I will up the Test reluctantly ( i wanted also to avoid tolerance to it in case i ever cycle again ) . Worked out hard today. Strength has DROPPED slightly since last!!! Thanks in advance for help with any or all these Qs.

[chris2wire]

Its possible that jelly around the midsection is water weight...

But if you arent eating clean it could be fat. Taking test WILL NOT make you fat, period. Thats all in your diet.

300mg a week is not bad, especially if youre an older person who probably has low natural levels. I know someone who did great at 250mg per week.

About the loss in strength... Its quite possible you havent lost strength, but are feeling effects of something else. Something as simple as, for example, taking a nap. If you workout at 6pm normally, with no nap, you may be much more energetic than on a weird day when you napped from 3-4 then worked out at 6pm. Or perhaps you didnt eat enough carbs the day before... Maybe you walked around the yard considerably more that day before your workout than usual.

Point is I wouldnt look at the loss in strength as such a wide-view problem. Its probably one small isolated reason that hampered that workout in particular.

[stupidhippo]

its quite hard to make any conclusions since u r not giving ne numbers... My results vary a little every day. Even on cycle some days arent as good as others, relatively speaking

[forsz]

Tx for the input. I accounted for all other possibilities ( removed almost all variables) ; but the only thing left is that I M simply getting no good results. And having the OPPOSITE of the desired results (fat) is esp. hard to accept. I M upping the Test for now.

[AG5678]

hopefully your diet is clean. Thats fuken awesome that your juicen at 40. Yea i would have to say up your test. Even though its expensive i would have done Var at 50mg ED

[Moosepellet]

What is the size of needle are you using?

[Ntpadude]

I M revising earlier post in the hope that someone would PLEASE HELP. I M exactly 5 wks into my 1st cycle with Test as base and i have unusual prob. I M early 40s 5'10" 200Lbs. I was hoping to do 10 week very lean cycle with good strength gains. I started of doing 400-450 Mg/Wk Test ( bec i added Prop to the Cyp to "jump-start") with 20Mg/D Var and 25Mcg/D of Cytomel. As U can C , I prefer to keep the doses low and hope for a synergistic stack. I strongly want to avoid need for ancillaries until PCT. I planned to go to only 300Mg/Wk Test after the 1st few Wks. Well, roughly 2 wks in i had an infection problem and figured i might have to abort cycle. So i cut the T3 and Var and stayed on ONLY 300Mg/Wk Test. In spite of the Var & T3; i ADDED 2% bodyfat in the 1st few weeks-- all around my midsection, while gaining at most 2 Lbs overall !!!!! Could it B estrogenic side Fx ( tendency toward fat storage) ?? My diet and routine R the same (except for some added protein) My muscles SEEM to be just as hard now as when i started. Also , i got rebound fatigue when i came off the T3. I only wanted to lay down in bed; but i forced myself to maintain a typically intense wrkt regimen. I got NO strength gains until wk 3-4 (and little muscle mass overall ) ..... but i've been stagnant now for 1 week+ . No more gains whatsoever. I know the test is good bec i really believe in the source; and my libido has been high the whole time, whereas it usually gets this high now and then for 1 week at a time. I've read many posts about users not seeing gains for 5-6wks, but I M concerned bec i put on the fat early and hit plateau now. I really hope to make good gains on only 300 bec I M still wary about the infection prob. I shot again into my glute 3 days ago for the 1st time since my prob and there seems to be hardenning ( but not unusually painful) again DOES ANYONE BELIEVE I WILL STILL MAKE GOOD GAINS IF I STICK WITH THE 300/WK ?? If i must increase; would it B better to Increase the Test or add Var?? Or should i try adding Clen (which i haven't tried yet). Now 1 day later: I will up the Test reluctantly ( i wanted also to avoid tolerance to it in case i ever cycle again ) . Worked out hard today. Strength has DROPPED slightly since last!!! Thanks in advance for help with any or all these Qs.

I think you started out with too many compounds running, then when you discontiued things, everything got all screwed up. Remember there is water weight with any steroid, its temporary and lasts only as long as the cycle... when you got off, the water weight leaves you entirely in about 2 weeks then you will realize no fat gains. Testosterone tends burn fat but you havent been on long enough to gain muscle which in turn burns fat. I think you should drop all the balony and just keep it simple... test cyp and stay with just that and do your 10 weeks. Could be anything making you tired (T3 rebound) is bound to make you think you've lost strength... Is this your first cycle? And man you got yourself loaded up with so many chemicals, I dont know what you are trying to do. Trying to turn from a 15% body fat into muscle boy abs of steel??? A single cycle wont do it and trying to do something like this so fast is extremely unhealthy. Takes time to grow, time to loose fat... and you typically cant do both at the same time. Clen, T3 and this other stuff is likely to partially cancel out the testosterone. Then on top of all this chemistry you are afraid of anti-e's??? Anti-e's like nolva are worth having on hand... I dont take mine regularly, only in response to sensative nipples which since I am on about 500 mg test, I havent had to do nolva in several weeks because my estrogen isnt that high.

BTW, if you did caliper tests or electronic body fat tests... they ALL give you bad and incorrect reading while you are on a cycle. Wait until 3 weeks after your last injection then do the body fat measurements then... it will probably be lower then your starting position and certainly lower then that false 2% increase you are showing. Water weight is more likely to fool the calipers because the water is primarily just under the skin and greatly exaggerates the measurements. You just cannot rely on body fat measurement while on a cycle.

[forsz]

bump

[forsz]

bump

[forsz]

Tx 4 the help........maybe i wasn't clear enuf on some things.....
Chris, i did eliminate ALL possible variables b4 concluding str was down. My diet isn't worse than b4, and i've heard of many 1st cyclers doing great on 250/wk....that's precisely why i m so dissappointed.
It seems AG 's answer is prob correct. I simply need more (the strength benefits reversed after i lowered dose) . Altho the midsection/overall fat is a total mystery.
MyPins are 1.5" , sometimes 1.25" , pushed deep.
NPTA: yes, things got screwed up when i cut some; but it was a reasonable course of action at the time. I got the strenghth gains DURING the time of the T3 rebound fatigue. It was later that the strength went down. THis is my 1st cycle after working out hard n natural for over 25 yrs. I never said i m afraid of ancilarries. I made sure i had nolva, clomid, Arimidex, HCG, and proviron on hand b4 starting. ( i know i won't use more than 2 or maybe 3) . I just want to observe how i fare without using them until PCT or if probs pop up. I believe that is the best accepted wisdom. I also am acutely aware of how building mass and trimming fat are two somewhat opposing aims and that it is VERY difficult to do both simultaneously. But i HAVE done it quite well. before. But now i m an old F*ck being terrorized by sarcopenia and the natural increase of visceral fat. I am willing to forfeit some mass for the sake of fat loss. In fact, strength gains, mass gains, fat loss, and cardio endurance are ALL equal priorites here. SO what do u think i should do with my sorry old AZZ??? ( lol i m actually good 4 old n natural ) .. I DO intend to start by , as u say, staying with the test.......but i m upping dose to ~ 400/wk. Also, considering my goals , don't u think my original stack was a good one??? If i don't c SOME gains in 1 week i plan to add Var........then Clen. Bad Idea????? I know the clen may lower my cardio endurance. Even the test does that ( I M SURE) . These and lots of other reasons r why i hope to keep doses low

[forsz]

Started upping the Test 5 days ago. Cardio endurance is decreasing. "strength" stabilized but def not increasing yet.

[forsz]

Almost 7 weeks and STILL stagnant. Added 39Mg/D Var 3 days ago. This is blowing my mind.

[chest6]

I know you said you believe in the source but I dunno...7 weeks and you're still not seeing anything??

[forsz]

Yes. I think it's cause i went down to <300Mg/wk for a while ( injection infection) N that is prob just too low 4 me.... so maybe it's almost like starting over ( Does anyone think that's a reasonable assumption???????) My libido has been on high the whole time ( it dipped to just above avg for a short time after i cut the gear) . That's what esp gives me confidence that it's real test. Usually my lib stays this high for omly about 1 week at a time. The only other signs (good or bad) are a few xtra zits and a higher-than-usual pulse. Another week without progress, tho, n i think i'll hit the panic button.
ALSO. i wonder if it's cuz i m on ~ 1.25Mg/D finasteride. Maybe even that small amt is too much DHT suppression ( and consequent magnification of estrogenic FX...hence that fat ) ???????? Maybe i can continue the Finasteride but start on nolva. I reall don't know.

[forsz]

Still nothing. ANYONE else besides me N Dazbo have this prob???

[dirtyvegas]

Still nothing. ANYONE else besides me N Dazbo have this prob???

up the dose again....go to 500/mg week stay there. plus stay at 40 mg of var ED..... youll see your gains there deffinatly...

[forsz]

I M over 500Mg test E for over 2 wks now ( i wrote in earlier post that i was raising to ~ 400/wk) . I shoot 250 every 3rd day. I M kinda resigning myself to consider it like starting from scratch. It seems that i M only 1 of 2 users her for whom gear doesn't work. But the WORST of it is that I M also putting fat on my middle!!!!!!!!

[Defconx3]

With 500mg Test Ethanate per week and 40 mg of Anavar you really should be noticing SOMETHING, its not like gear doesn't work for some people. I hate to say it, but if I were you I would be suspecting bunk gear.

[forsz]

My libido has been on constant high since i started -- only going lower when i lowered the dose.

[dirtyvegas]

huuum ive never hear of someone not being able to gain anything of AS use.. gotta be doin somthing wrong..

[chris2wire]

Im in the same boat as thsi guy... 500mg prop a week. Gains are minimal.... About 8lbs in 8 weeks. Not bad, but I eat like a horse and I eat VERY clean.... I workout hard and on a strict schedule.

On top of that, im storing fat noticeably. And its not water. Its slow cummilative fat. Weird?

My only suspicion is estrogen, dunno what else it could be.

But even if estrogen is causing fat storage, it doesnt explain the lack of gains and strength...

[forsz]

Right. And last week i started on arimidex 25Mg/D and still on the same road...........

[chris2wire]

Perhaps theres truth to the rumor that genes mean more than any AAS you can use.

If you arent made to be big and muscular then all this extra food just turns to fat.

Who knows, but it sucks.

[forsz]

I M confused, chris. In the http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...light=proviron thread u say ur gains r great. ????????????