Glutamine. The final verdict!!!!!

[big'r]

GLUTAMINE DOES NOTING FOR BB-ING PURPOSES

Glutamine production in muscle protein is 50% lower than assumed
-Results of tracer studies indicate that skeletal muscle contributes to approximately 70% of overall glutamine production in healthy adults; the contribution of de novo synthesis being estimated at approximately 60%. Direct and specific measurements of glutamine in intact muscle protein are 50% lower than assumed previously (G1).

Most amino acids are precursors for alanine and glutamine synthesis in skeletal muscle
-Cysteine, leucine, valine, methionine, isoleucine, tyrosine, lysine, and phenylalanine increase the rate of glutamine synthesis. The progressive decline in alanine and glutamine synthesis noted on prolonged incubation is prevented by the addition of amino acids to the incubation medium (G2)

90% of the glutamine you take orally never even makes it to your muscles. Glutamine supplementation decreases it's own synthesis and mostly turns itself into glucose.
-Systemic glutamine administration is ineffective in preventing muscle depletion, due to a relative inability of skeletal muscle to seize glutamine from the bloodstream. Transport from blood accounts for only 25% of the intramuscular glutamine pool turnover. In contrast, the intracellular pools of most essential amino acids, such as phenylalanine or leucine, derived largely from the extracellular space. Studies involving oral ingestion of stable isotope-labelled glutamine indicate that 50-70% of enterally administered glutamine is taken up during first pass by splanchnic organs (gut and liver). (G14).
-Glutamine orally is successful in elevating plasma glutamine at the peak concentration by 46%, which suggests that a substantial proportion of the oral load escaped utilization by the gut mucosal cells and uptake by the liver and kidneys. If the entire glutamine dose had been distributed within the blood (8% body wt) and extracellular fluid (20% lean body mass) compartments, then a 3-mM rise in blood glutamine concentration might have been expected, whereas plasma glutamine concentration was only observed to rise by 0.3 mM. This might suggest that only 10% of the oral dose reached the extracellular fluid compartments (G15).
-Infusion of glutamine increases plasma glutamine concentration and turnover only threefold, formation of glucose from glutamine increased sevenfold. Furthermore, glutamine infusion decreased its own de novo synthesis (4.55 +/- 0.22 vs. 2.81 +/- 0.62 micromol x kg(-1) x min(-1);P < 0.02) (G16).

Glutamine does not prevent exercise-induced immune impairment. Carbs do. And glutamine does not influence hormonal levels
-Consuming 30-60 g carbohydrate x h(-1) during sustained intensive exercise attenuates rises in stress hormones such as cortisol and appears to limit the degree of exercise-induced immune depression. Convincing evidence that so-called 'immune-boosting' supplements, including high doses of antioxidant vitamins, glutamine, zinc, probiotics and Echinacea, prevent exercise-induced immune impairment is currently lacking (G31).
-Intracellular glutamine concentration may not be compromised when plasma levels are decreased postexercise. In addition, a number of recent intervention studies with glutamine feeding demonstrate that, although the plasma concentration of glutamine is kept constant during and after acute, strenuous exercise, glutamine supplementation does not abolish the postexercise decrease in in vitro cellular immunity, including low lymphocyte number, impaired lymphocyte proliferation, impaired natural killer and lymphokine-activated killer cell activity, as well as low production rate and concentration of salivary IgA (G32).
-Glutamine supplementation abolished the postexercise decline in plasma glutamine concentration but had no effect on lymphocyte trafficking, NK and lymphokine-activated killer cell activities, T cell proliferation, catecholamines, growth hormone, insulin, or glucose (G33).
-Nutritional supplementation with glutamine abolishes the exercise-induced decline in plasma glutamine, but does not influence post-exercise immune impairment. However, carbohydrate loading diminishes most exercise effects of cytokines, lymphocyte and neutrophils (G34).

Glutamine does not increase protein synthesis
-Intravenous infusion of amino acids increases the fractional rate of mixed muscle protein synthesis, but addition of glutamine to the amino acid mixture does not further stimulate muscle protein synthesis rate in healthy young men and women (G6).
-Short intravenous infusion of glutamine does not acutely stimulate duodenal protein synthesis in well-nourished, growing dogs (G8).

Glutamine prevents protein degradation but not more effectively than carbs
-0,9 g/kg glutamine during resistance training has no significant effect on muscle performance, body composition or muscle protein degradation compared to 0,9 g/kg maltodextrin (G9).
-Glutamine preserves protein synthesis in Caco-2 cells submitted to "luminal fasting", but higher glutamine doses did not enhance protein synthesis beyond control fed values. And glucose supplementation restored FSR as effi-ciently as glutamine (G10).

Carbhohydrate or BCAA supplementation prevents decrease in glutamine levels during exercise
-Carbohydrate supplementation affects positively the immune response of cyclists by avoiding or minimizing changes in plasma glutamine concentration (G11).
-Following an exercise bout, a decrease in plasma glutamine concentration can be observed, which is completely abolished by BCAA supplementation (G12).
-BCAA supplementation during a triathlon completely prevents the decrease in plasma glutamine (G13).
-7 distance runners reduced muscle gycogen. A high carb meal (80% carbs) before 60 min. exercise increases plasma glutamine. A 14 h fast before exercise does not change plasma glutamine. Plasma BCAA did not change under either dietary condition (G17).

Fasting decreases glutamine transport. And supplementation during fasting does not prevent muscle loss
-During fasting, skeletal muscle exports increased amounts of glutamine (Gln) while increasing the production of this amino acid by glutamine synthetase (GS) in order to maintain the intramuscular Gln pool (G41).
-Background: One of the major activities of the enterocyte is amino acid transport, which is important not only for the organism but also for the integrity of the mucosa. Bowel rest during the postoperative period is marked by decreased calorie and protein intake with atrophy of the brush border mucosa.
Fasting for 72 hours decreases glutamine and arginine transport. Alanine MeAIB, and leucine transport were maintained (G42).
-0.35 g/kg glutamine/day does not prevent loss of lean muscle in athletes during a 12-day weight reduction program (G43).

Glutamine does not enhance performance
-6 resistance-trained men performed weightlifting exercises after ingesting 0.3 g/kg glutamine. This did not enhance performance (G22).



REFERENCES

(G1) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...016&query_hl=1
(G2) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...059&query_hl=1
(G6) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...116&query_hl=1
(G7) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...808&query_hl=1
(G8) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...312&query_hl=1
(G9) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
(G10) http://ajpgi.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/285/1/G128
(G11) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...341&query_hl=1
(G12) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...939&query_hl=1
(G13) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...884&query_hl=1
(G14)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...750&query_hl=5
Complete studie: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...16#post7234016
(G15)http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/86/6/1770
(G16)http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/co...act/272/3/E437
(G17)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...952&query_hl=1
(G22)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
(G31)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...437&query_hl=1
(G32)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...472&query_hl=1
(G33)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...663&query_hl=1
(G34)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...210&query_hl=1
(G41)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...760&query_hl=1
(G42)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...166&query_hl=1
(G43)http://www.jssm.org/vol2/n4/7/v2n4-7pdf.pdf

[MuckDog]

your back for more eh

[big'r]

your back for more eh

What are you talking about?

[bluelightning3]

yeah glutamine doesnt do anything for muscle growth. its just another supplement that sellers will say something to make a buck.

[jezurd]

yeah glutamine doesnt do anything for muscle growth. its just another supplement that sellers will say something to make a buck.

READ!!! ****ers!!!!

Thnx for enlighting us bluelighting, becaus those ' rednecks' won't admit they lost their challenge. Instead they bashes/flames someone' s avatar, that's so childish and gay.

[testosterona]

he's back for another beating. PINN, MESO were ya at.

[big'r]

he's back for another beating. PINN, MESO were ya at.

If you have nothing usefull to add DON'T REACT

I kept my part of the challenge (as i stated i would)
And i'm still waiting for the 1 reference i was promised......

[jezurd]

he's back for another beating. PINN, MESO were ya at.

**** you ectomorph, who ar u, PINN and meso's lapdog?

[prolangtum]

glutamine is a waste IMO. some swear by it, not me.

[O.M.E.G.A]

glutamine works

[big'r]

glutamine works

BACK UP YOUR CLAIMS!!!!! AND POST A STUDY SHOWING IT WORKS IN HEALTHY INDIVUALS THEN.

Sofar in each discussion i had, people always cried, shouted and flamed me, but not anyone ever posted any relevant study (muscle related).
So what are you gonna do? Be a man and post up, or are you gonna flame me like the other children on this (and other boards) did?



I know your going this way:

If i cannot win a discussion as regards content, i'm gonna:

-Claim science sucks. It's personal experience that counts, science is theory. Hereby i'm gonna completely ignore the fact that scientific studies are actually looking at personal experience in individuals (only science looks at total groups/populations and eliminates all variables except for the substance tested, which fact i als completely ignore by stating the substance made me feel good, and i gained muchos lbs. I'm sure it was this substance cause..... Eh well, i know for sure anyway.)
-Totally ignore the studies which have been posted. I will not read them cause i allready know for sure the substance works for me, so why should i open my eyes? Damned i instructed people for 20 years, so i must be right. Here i completely ignore the fact that i may have instructed people falsly in the first place. Cause i read these adds 20 years ago and based my advice on these.
-I'm going to claim lot's of phd's, fitness instructors say the substance will benefit me, completely forgetting to read the references (if there are any at all) and check for myself if the instructor could in any way conclude his writing from these references. Why should i be critical, i can be dumb, the instructor thinks for me. I have never checked pubmed for anything and never will!
-And when i'm really feel like i'm loosing the discussion i'm going to ask for your stats. Flaming you for not being big enough, and therefore people should listen to me... Damned.
-In the case of glutamine i'm going to post studies proving it helps after surgery. I do absolutely not understand surgery differs from exercise, and state exercise is almost as catabolic as surgery.... When someone then posts studies showing glutamine does not work under normal stress, i completely overrule him by going offtopic again and claiming any of the previous points.

[O.M.E.G.A]

No claims

the true believers know how good it really is

[big'r]

No claims

the true believers know how good it really is

Hey, you're the same OMEGA as..... Aren't you?

Ok then, i respect you for not making claimes.

[*KT*]

well, you learn something every day

[O.M.E.G.A]

Hey, you're the same OMEGA as..... Aren't you?

Ok then, i respect you for not making claimes.

yes yes its me

"TheOmega"
and
"OMEGA"

[Mesomorphyl]

Hey, you're the same OMEGA as..... Aren't you?

Ok then, i respect you for not making claimes.

Two seperate sets of standards?

[big'r]

Two seperate sets of standards?

No seperate set of standards.

OMEGA does not claim glutamine to work. He just believes it too.
I cannot nor would i want to change someone's believes.

I only challenge people who claim glutamine to work based on socalled evidence.
It was a fair challenge i think. And it was not to flame anyone, but i just want people to think for themselves and try to stimulate people to show some criticism.

If i claim something, most of the time i can back up my claims by refering to studies. Lot's of people can not do this.

If someone actually looks into scientific evidence himself, he will learn more then following advice from others.

So i do not want anyone to take the studies i provide for granted. Everybody should be critical.
So do some research for yourself if you want to learn more on glutamine. But do not just listen to me or anyone else.


Edit: additional --> I know OMEGA from another board. There he also does not claim there are hundreds of studies showing benifit of glutamine (unlike many others). That's why i allready knew his point of view.

[Mesomorphyl]

No seperate set of standards.

OMEGA does not claim glutamine to work. He just believes it too.
I cannot nor would i want to change someone's believes.

Now you are trying to split hairs... Your bias for non-argument is based on semantics. Listed below are definitions and synonyms.

claim
v.
1. To state to be true, especially when open to question; assert or maintain..

n.
1. An assertion on truth.

be•lief
n.
1. Mental acceptance of and conviction in the truth, actuality, or validity of something.

Synonyms: belief, claim, credence, credit, faith
These nouns denote mental acceptance of the truth, actuality, or validity of something.

[Mesomorphyl]

No seperate set of standards.
Edit: additional --> I know OMEGA from another board. There he also does not claim there are hundreds of studies showing benifit of glutamine (unlike many others). That's why i allready knew his point of view.

You just proved my point you are biased if they are from your board.

[O.M.E.G.A]

Yes I do belive Glutamine works

specifically "glutamine peptides"

theory is that more of it bypasses stomach acids and thus more deliverable glutamine is available for target tissues,

also,

1) Glutamine is the primary fuel used by the immune system, if the bodies Immune system enhancing sytems were to eat at a "dinner table" so to speak and they were presented with mutliple Energy sources such as:

fat
glucose
protiens
alcohol
glutamine

those systems would say "glutamine please" that is their preferential energy source.

2) Glutamine via word of mouth seems to alleviate muscle soreness, and has some degree of cell volumization, word of mouth is a gold standard of a ingredients success long term NOT marketing

3) even if Gltuamine is conditionally essential when on a calorie restricted diet taken post workout it replenishes glutamine pools fast, more so than "just food", it feeds the immune sytem and all around provides a anticatbolic "buffer"

4) you IDIOTS still Ignore the novel new delivery mathods that make glutamine deliverable into the cell, and bypasses the termination by PH changes in the gut, N-acetyl-glutamate, and Glutamine Pepetides deliver the goods

5) Idiots was used in an affectionate way: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...57/catpwned.jpg

6)

there is not that much as far as studies but here are some conventional ideas and many believe them to be true here was my right up:

Glutamine supplementation has been touted as one of the missing pieces of the hypertrophic/anti-catabolic puzzle for intensely training athletes. Many have felt it to be beneficial in training, particularly when dieting, training very frequently and very intensely.

Up until now, some of the drawbacks to oral glutamine supplementation was the absorbability factors. The L-form just required mass amounts to pass the gut membrane and be taken up to target tissues. As a result, much was wasted. But now, with the advent of peptide bonded forms of glutamine, this problem has been efficiently overridden. The peptide glutamic substrates are taken up much more easily, and as a result, much higher plasma concentrations are achieved, with much less required to achieve this end result.

for every 17 grams of Ener-G your getting 5.595 grams of GLUTAMINE

along with those 5.595 grams your also getting all amino acids including all 8 essential amino acids.


Now, with this in mind, one may still question, "Why glutamine? What will it do for me, the athlete?"

Glutamine is the most abundant occuring amino acid present in the entire body, comprising about 75% of the muscle cell amino acid pool.

During stress, the body's requirement for glutamine often appears to excedeour ability to produce sufficient amounts to reinstate cell pool homeostasis. Stress causes increased amounts of glutamine to release from muscle, and it becomes difficult to restore, presumably as a result of disturbances of the Na+electrochemical gradient across the cell membrane. Liver and spleen uptake of glutamine is also increased during these stressful times, further displacing the content present in muscle.

Low plasma concentrations of glutamine reflect reduced stores in muscle tissue. Feeding extra amounts of readily available/easily absorbed peptide bonded glutamine during these periods would be a wise idea to counterattack these catabolic mechanisms and sustain the muscle amino pool content.

On a cellular level, let's take a look at why glutamine is such a worthwhile substrate----Some of its proven benefits:

*It attenuates glutathione depletion( Glutathione is the most important endogenous scavenger system/anti-oxidant in the entire body). Glutathione depletion is often pronounced after bouts of stress, including events of high intensity excercise such as we subject ourselves to during heavy training.

*Glutamine has been shown to stimulate/activate protein synthesis and inhibit turnover(degradation). It has been shown to enhance/sustain nitrogen homeostasis under periods of stress.

*Glutamine modulates lymphocyte (immune cell) activation,by proliferating (increasing population)of T-Cell numbers which in turn increases immune system response. Parenteral administration in hospital patients under stress has been found to greatly decrease the instance of bacterial infections. For the rest of us we can achieve those same benifits via supplemenation of Glutamine Peptides

*Stimulates hepatic(liver)glycogen synthesis.

*Glutamine has also been shown to enhance stress-induced heat shock protein(HSP)expression. HSP's provide protection of cellular injury.

*Lastly, glutamine peptides have the antioxidant action similar to 3-5 servings of fruit or vegetables based on ORAC (oxygen radical absorbance capacity) for vitamins C, E, and beta-carotene. Glutamine peptides offer 300 times more ORAC antioxidant equivalents as compared to free glutamine.



SOURCE ORAC INTAKES

Vitamin E (500mg) 116
Vitamin C (500mg) 2830
3-5 servings of fruits and vegetables 1950
B-carotene (250mg) 300
Bound amino acid glutamine (5-7g) 3.5-5.4
Protein hydrolysate (10-15g) 1100-1650

oral administration of glutamine,particularly in peptide-chained form very well may improve nitrogen economy/retention, improve repair/recovery of damaged muscle tissue,and diminish the the incidence of free radicals/bacterial forms present in those who are placing stress on their systems through the routines of high intensity training.

[O.M.E.G.A]

Mesomorphyl

your avatar is hilariuos lol

[big'r]

Mesomorphyl

your avatar is hilariuos lol

THANX

[Mesomorphyl]

Mesomorphyl

your avatar is hilariuos lol

Yeah, I just had to video tape jezurd while he was mowing my lawn...

[big'r]

@Mesomorphyl
OMG you're even deleting your own posts now? Afraid anyone might read what you wrote?

[abstrack]

Thread closed due to childish internet drama.

One thing that I have found out in this industry is that for every study proving something works or is beneficial, there is another study by another doctor claiming it doesnt work.