HCG during long cycle

[mukkler]

Hello

How much HCG do you recommend for a long (>20weeks) cycle of 500mg testosteron enanthate /week.

[C_Bino]

Some people liek to run it the entire way through like every 2 or 3 days at about 250-500iu. Some just run it for a week straight ever 8 weeks at 500iu per day. You can go about it a few different ways man.

[hosam4ever]

as c bino has told u it has many ways for running it u can take it like 250iu x3 ew from the beg of the cycle

[Kale]

This might help you make up your mind

written by SWALE, an hrt doctor.


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I frequent another board and posted this in another topic but thought alot of you may find this useful so i'm putting it here. This is from a poster who is an MD and uses gear himself. it is a protocol for using HCG during cycle and not PCT, he explains why HCG during PCT can actually inhibit natural test production and recovery.



"I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.

Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).

If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn?t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn?t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.

The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex, is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM?s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.

I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel, or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a ?bridge?. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can?t ?fool? the body?it is smarter than you are.

I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground?and we don?t want that, do we?).

All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols.

Thought this would shed a little light on all the HCG questions during cycle."

[mukkler]

Thanks alot

I will start with 2x500 iu a week.

One more question

I have bought amps with 5000 iu of HCG + 1ml of solution. So i have to dilute it a little with bacteriostatic water. I will do this in a presealed vial.

How long will it stay fresh in the vial which i will keep in the fridge?

5000 iu will last for 5 weeks. IS that to long?

[Kale]

5 weeks in the fridge should be OK as long as you use BS water

[mukkler]

ok good

What´s that solvent anyway? I dropped one of them on the floor and it cracked open ... do i need the solvent or can i mix the powder with bacteriostatic water directly?

[Kale]

yeah throw that shit out and just use the BS water bro.

[fanatic]

Bump for excellent info that anyone using or considering using HCG should read.

[fanatic]

Thanks alot

I will start with 2x500 iu a week.

One more question

I have bought amps with 5000 iu of HCG + 1ml of solution. So i have to dilute it a little with bacteriostatic water. I will do this in a presealed vial.

How long will it stay fresh in the vial which i will keep in the fridge?

5000 iu will last for 5 weeks. IS that to long?

So, just mixing the 5000iu amp with the 1ml solution is not enough? The bacteriostatic water (as sold through ar-r) is still needed or is the solution the bacteriostatic water? Sh#t... im confused now.

[Kale]

So, just mixing the 5000iu amp with the 1ml solution is not enough? The bacteriostatic water (as sold through ar-r) is still needed or is the solution the bacteriostatic water? Sh#t... im confused now.

The water that come with it is just steralised its NOT Bacteriostatic. I am not sure what the difference is and I couldnt be bothered doing the research to find out, but I know from the Vets that Bacteriostatic is better to use for longevity of the product.

[lzicc]

Here is how I do it:

I mix 1ml of water that comes with my kit with my 5000iu hcg and mix it. That will give me 10 - 500iu shots.

I run the hcg about every 8/10th week of my cycle at 500iu every other day until I use a total of 10000iu for that period.

[Kale]

OK I did the research

Bacteriostatic water filters: These filters, also comprised of AC, generally remove the same contaminants as water filters, but they contain an additional chemical agent, such as silver ions, that hinders the growth of bacteria trapped within the filter itself. (Bacteriostatic means the ability to inhibit the further growth of bacteria.)

[peump]

isotonic sodium chloride is the substance that comes with hcg

[SMAN12b]

This might help you make up your mind

written by SWALE, an hrt doctor.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I frequent another board and posted this in another topic but thought alot of you may find this useful so i'm putting it here. This is from a poster who is an MD and uses gear himself. it is a protocol for using HCG during cycle and not PCT, he explains why HCG during PCT can actually inhibit natural test production and recovery.



"I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.

Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).

If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn?t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn?t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.

The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex, is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM?s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.

I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel, or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a ?bridge?. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can?t ?fool? the body?it is smarter than you are.

I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground?and we don?t want that, do we?).

All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols.

Thought this would shed a little light on all the HCG questions during cycle."

KALE, Excellant post, THANKS for the info. I may have one point confused though. Is he saying to use BOTH HCG and Arimidex during the cycle or just one of them??? THANKS

[fanatic]

KALE, Excellant post, THANKS for the info. I may have one point confused though. Is he saying to use BOTH HCG and Arimidex during the cycle or just one of them??? THANKS

He's saying to use both during cycle but not to drop the arimidex during PCT and the HCG after the first week of PCT.

[SMAN12b]

He's saying to use both during cycle but not to drop the arimidex during PCT and the HCG after the first week of PCT.

THANKS FANATIC

[SMAN12b]

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[bonerdonor]

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