Short Burst Cycles: What are the Disadvantages?

[Random]

Guys what are the disadvantages if any to running short burst type cycles (high doses)? thanks

CD

[Random]

I suppose if test is the base--high doses could cause high blood pressure for some....

[fred9]

yeah the high bloodpressure thing is the reason why i havent tried it...
advantage should be quick recovery...personally i like only the longer cycles, more quality (i think) and the strength will also take some time for me before it's noticable..

[Swifto]

I've never done one, but this is what I've seen happen by user's reporting whats happened and medical studies.

- Total HPTA shutdown
- Fluctuating hormones, possibly meaning more sides, not less. Acne to name one.
- Non-responders
- Not healthy for the HPTA to cause shutdown, then PCT, then shutdown, then PCT if taking X amount of time.

Some of this can be prevented, I'm sure Marcus will agree.

He probably also knows more sides associated with short burst cycles too....Little expert. Or should I say big.

[vitor]

The only disadvantage I felt was a "sick" like feeling the first couple of weeks.(nothing I coudnt handle though.)

When you suddenly go high carb after dieting and increase your hormone levels dramatically, my system got a bit of a shock I think...But those are also the 2-factors that will bring your physick over a platue...

[Random]

Good answers guys, ill await more responses...

[marcus300]

Disadvantage??? If all procedures are carried out and the right compounds and dosages are used for the individual, disadvantages are NONE,

I feel you have to try them, do the correct prime and the right cycle and try it for yourself, many do feel the strange feeling what Vitor states, Ive had it many times but wouldn't call it a bad side, its growth!!!!

[Random]

Marcus

do you get high BP tho during the burst?

[marcus300]

Yes i do suffer with high BP, but ive found running longer cycles makes this issue worst, i can correct the BP far better running shorter cycles

[Random]

Yes i do suffer with high BP, but ive found running longer cycles makes this issue worst, i can correct the BP far better running shorter cycles

wow thats good to know...

[KNOWNasJOE]

Marcus what is your favorite short burst cycle? How many of them have you ran?

[Bigmax]

The short burst work great if you do the "priming" ala MARCUS..personalty ive run long and short.For me the short bursts have been working great...it takes a bit to learn what works for the individual(as far as mgs)...The fast acting compounds work best for the short duration...

[Random]

As for the competitive bodybuilder i cant imagine short cycles being better than a traditional long lean bulk cycle, ...then again, it is not designed for long term use as well, so i do see the point where some users can use it to their benefit...

[briansauras]

The short burst work great if you do the "priming" ala MARCUS..personalty ive run long and short.For me the short bursts have been working great...it takes a bit to learn what works for the individual(as far as mgs)...The fast acting compounds work best for the short duration...

can you shoot me a PM im curious what doses you used.

marcus helped me plan one out for spring

[marcus300]

As for the competitive bodybuilder i cant imagine short cycles being better than a traditional long lean bulk cycle, ...then again, it is not designed for long term use as well, so i do see the point where some users can use it to their benefit...

You wrong CD, Many competitive pro Bodybuilders use the short burst cycles, Dorian was the master of them, the big difference is that they bridge the short burst cycles together with the required dose of AAS, it suits them more because of the shows and photoshoots they are always priming so this just falls ideal with the short burst theorys

Bigmax is totally correct, if the prime is done correctly short burst cycle are very productive, i could talk all day and give personal studies of many cycles but i think if your ready you should try one and see if you prefare them, many BB's never go back to the standard way of cycling.

[Random]

Wow thats good to know, yea i was aware of Dorian of course.....

[liftin4life]

So a disadvantage would be the PCT and HPTA recovery. What if you're on HRT and don't need PCT? You're a lifer anyway.

That being the case, maybe this option is best for me? It's not hard to take guggul, Fish Oils, and Garlic to keep BP down.

[marcus300]

So a disadvantage would be the PCT and HPTA recovery. What if you're on HRT and don't need PCT? You're a lifer anyway.

That being the case, maybe this option is best for me? It's not hard to take guggul, Fish Oils, and Garlic to keep BP down.

no its an advantage, pct and recovery is far better

[guest589745]

Why is it potentially better to run higher doses for shorter amounts of time as opposed to longer periods of lower doses? I mean, isn't the degree of HPTA suppression at least partially dependant on the dose ? Wouldn't the higher doses have the potential to shut you down harder, even if it is for a shorter amount of time? How would that be beneficial or "better" ?

I know you have probly explained this tons of times marcus but, I would like to see studies and determine how shorter cycles are "better". I haven't researched it much yet but I am at least interested. Just doesn't make much sense to me yet.

[marcus300]

Why is it potentially better to run higher doses for shorter amounts of time as opposed to longer periods of lower doses? I mean, isn't the degree of HPTA suppression at least partially dependant on the dose ? Wouldn't the higher doses have the potential to shut you down harder, even if it is for a shorter amount of time? How would that be beneficial or "better" ?

I know you have probly explained this tons of times marcus but, I would like to see studies and determine how shorter cycles are "better". I haven't researched it much yet but I am at least interested. Just doesn't make much sense to me yet.

Shutting your system down for long periods of time creates problems with recovery, in some many never totally recover and HRT is the only line of attack, if you keep on shutting it down for a large number of weeks is harder on recovery, when recovery takes longer then maintenance of the new muscle tissue is even harder, so you either go back on to feel better and stop the muscle wastage which in turn results is more sides,
With shorter cycle the system isn't shut down for that long, now this varies because alot depends on compounds used and duration of the short cycle, i do 30 day cycles and normally the system shuts down within the first 2 weeks so with a 30 day cycle your only shutting down the system for 15days, now its far easier to recover and maintenance from a shutdown of 15 days than something like 12-15 weeks,
i have many personal studies and i have had many other BB's who have gave me great feedback,

short cycles are good and very productive in building muscle but they are a part of a LARGER plan than just the cycle, priming and creating the right environment is a must to solid gains,

Recovery is easier because your system recovery's faster when its only been shutdown or suppressed for a short period, long suppression or shutdown from a long cycle is hard work to recovery from and maintain.

[guest589745]

Thanks marcus.

So the "depth" of suppression is of no concern ?

Can't one become MORE suppressed from using higher doses and therefore still have issues with recovery?

Do you have a thread that explains this better? It isnt in your priming thread is it?

What do you suggest for recovery periods? Bloodwork results?

[marcus300]

Thanks marcus.

So the "depth" of suppression is of no concern ?

Can't one become MORE suppressed from using higher doses and therefore still have issues with recovery?

Do you have a thread that explains this better? It isnt in your priming thread is it?

What do you suggest for recovery periods? Bloodwork results?

The longer your suppress or shutdown the harder to recover, all i can give you is that Ive got many studies of clients and my own personal ones which show that recovery is faster and maintenance is far easier, dosage is link to the individuals cycle history some only need a small mg per day some need very high dose but in more or less all cases the recovery of the HPTA is alot faster and easier than running longer or average cycle

[briansauras]

I know these kind of cycles are very good for mass/lean mass but what if you liked this kind of short heavy cycling and it was time to cut?

Or does this not apply to cutting?

[marcus300]

I know these kind of cycles are very good for mass/lean mass but what if you liked this kind of short heavy cycling and it was time to cut?

Or does this not apply to cutting?

They are excellent for cutting, remember if you prime before correctly and then the following cutting cycle is design for yourself results are excellent

[Hard Head]

So Marcus, do you have a paper on this short cycle, priming, recovery method? I know you don't post this kind of stuff on the open forum but I would like to see what is up if you have something available. If you are a professional trainer and you only give this information to paying clients, I understand.

[marcus300]

So Marcus, do you have a paper on this short cycle, priming, recovery method? I know you don't post this kind of stuff on the open forum but I would like to see what is up if you have something available. If you are a professional trainer and you only give this information to paying clients, I understand.

Ive written a few threads on short cycling and priming check them out.

[vitor]

So the "depth" of suppression is of no concern ?

Can't one become MORE suppressed from using higher doses and therefore still have issues with recovery?

I would say NO,
You will be completely shut down from using even 100mg test ew(after a few weeks), yust like you would from using 1000mg ew, shut down means no natrual testosterone production.

From using higher dosages of for example testosterone, you will get more of an estrogen spike in Pct, estrogen inhibits the Hypotalamus and lenghten recovery, but with a proper pct(including an AI and Serm) it shoudnt make any diffrence anyway.

[guest589745]

I would say NO,
You will be completely shut down from using even 100mg test ew(after a few weeks), yust like you would from using 1000mg ew, shut down means no natrual testosterone production.

From using higher dosages of for example testosterone, you will get more of an estrogen spike in Pct, estrogen inhibits the Hypotalamus and lenghten recovery, but with a proper pct(including an AI and Serm) it shoudnt make any diffrence anyway.

BADA BING!!!

Thanks a lot vitor. I'm probly going to up my nandrolone dose then. Have to read a bit more .......

So the only variation of suppression is determined by the users genetics and reaction to certain compounds then ?

[vitor]

BADA BING!!!

Thanks a lot vitor. I'm probly going to up my nandrolone dose then. Have to read a bit more .......

So the only variation of suppression is determined by the users genetics and reaction to certain compounds then ?

Its defently genetic to a degree, there are people who never can recover after any AAS cycle, those are in a minority though.

Nadrolone has metabolites that tends to stay in your system for a long time,(possible why it can be detected for roughly 18 months in a drug test.) and can give some problems recovery, a prolactin inhibitor like Cabergoline seems to help, though.

Using letro+cabergoline on and off cycle will be of greate benefit imo.

[Swifto]

I would say NO,
You will be completely shut down from using even 100mg test ew(after a few weeks), yust like you would from using 1000mg ew, shut down means no natrual testosterone production.

From using higher dosages of for example testosterone, you will get more of an estrogen spike in Pct, estrogen inhibits the Hypotalamus and lenghten recovery, but with a proper pct(including an AI and Serm) it shoudnt make any diffrence anyway.

"Shutdown" will occur at low doses of Testosterone and other 19-Nor's. But, I'd say that "shutdown" is achieved faster when using massive doses, rather than normal 500mg/wk doses. This is due to elevated androgen/estrogen levels.

Estorgen and estrogenic sides seem to appear faster, as user's report, when higher doses are used. So would this mean total HPTA "shutdown" occurs faster the higher the dose too...I believe so.

[guest589745]

I have had no problem recovering from 900mg nandrolone a week (Knock on wood) while using arimidex post cycle for 2 weeks with nolvadex and clomid therafter for 1 1/2 months. I just have to make sure to not cease nandrolone and testosterone simulataneously, that was awful. Bloodwork was "Normal" 5weeks after the cycle. Lets hope I don't have any problems in the future.

[guest589745]

Its defently genetic to a degree, there are people who never can recover after any AAS cycle, those are in a minority though.

Nadrolone has metabolites that tends to stay in your system for a long time,(possible why it can be detected for roughly 18 months in a drug test.) and can give some problems recovery, a prolactin inhibitor like Cabergoline seems to help, though.

Using letro+cabergoline on and off cycle will be of greate benefit imo.

I will be only using arimidex, though I have tons of letro. So you mean to use letro/caber, not only during the cycle and PCT but virtually forever ?

If you know of anywhere that cabergoline can be found for a better price than what I have often found it for, I would greatly appreciate it.

[Random]

Yes bump for how caber would help during PCT...?

[guest589745]

Yes bump for how caber would help during PCT...?

Well it would lower progesterone/prolactin obviously but, why keep using it (Or both letro and caber) even after PCT if you are "OK" ? Not sure if that is what he was suggesting though either.

[Random]

Yea other than helping libido stay high, wouldnt just using letro/arimidex during PCT and until next cycle--(as vitor has tested) be enough?

[Swifto]

Yea other than helping libido stay high, wouldnt just using letro/arimidex during PCT and until next cycle--(as vitor has tested) be enough?

If your using an AI as a bridge, Letro is a good choice IMO, but at the right dose for you. This needs to be determined by BW. Its essential. Aromasin would also work well.

You want to try and lower estrogen so much that the body is fooled into producing higher testosterone to counter this inbalance. Letro, being a powerful type II AI, is a wise choice. Though estrogen isnt all bad and too lower levels can negativly effect your immune system, gains, labido and joints.

I say BW is the key as "shutdown" can also occur as the androgen levels in the Hypothalamus rise with time. Just like bridging with a mild compound. Its not all win, win, win.

Ok?

[Random]

Would aromasin be less harmful on lipid profile during the cruise time?

[Swifto]

Would aromasin be less harmful on lipid profile during the cruise time?

Which is harder on your lipids?

I'd also use a different AI to what I used for the cycle you have just finished. Or different AI to what you used during PCT. Change the compound to prevent a tolerance and keep the body guessing.

Get BW done every 5-6 weeks IMO too. This is something I'm looking to do next year too.

[Random]

Yea i get BW done frequently also, i was under the impression that arimidex was most harmful on the lipid profile...?

[guest589745]

letro should be, not arimidex, unless I am mistaken