Started Using AAS too young, need Help!!!

[BigGuy3333]

Ok so heres the deal, Im 20 years old and have done two cycles.
1st: 18 yrs/old 6'1" Start:170lb Peak:192lb After PCT:180
Test E week 1-10 400mg/wk
Deca 1-10 300mg/wk

3 Months in between cycles...

2nd:19 yrs/old 6'1" Start:179 Peak:195 After PCT:185
Test E 1-15 500mg/wk
Tren A 1-8 50mg/ed

PCT: For both was only Nolva 20mg ED for a week.

Now here are my problems:
I know I was way to young to even think about using AAS. And I know that I didnt take enough time off and my first cycle, if I was at least 25 should have been test e weeks 1-12 500mg EW. But I was foolish and un informed. I have done over 20 hours of researching on this site before making my first post. I recieved minor gyno from my last cycle and used letro to supress it and there is only a spot remaing the size of a pin. I also recieved bad acne after my last cycle which didnt supress totaly until 10 months after. I got blood work done 2 months after that cycle and everything was in normal ranges except my test levels were on the lower side. I have been off for a year now and I am still experiencing some sex drive problems. Along with my drive to go the gym is also supressed sometimes. I want to get some advice on what I should do. Should I do what a first cycle should be and proper pct just to get my test levels back to normal? Any help would be greatful. Please do not critique me on how wrong I am and call me a newb and what not. I know I was wrong and I have messed my body up because I was un informed and made some poor decisions.

[4runner]

Forget steroid use and spend the next 5 years learning how to train and eat.

[ironaddict69]

Forget steroid use and spend the next 5 years learning how to train and eat.

okay true, but for the mean time, lets help him.
okay man, have u read up all about PCT? you mmight wanna go see an endocrinogist, or a sports med doc and run HCG and about 5 WEEKS of nolva. or do it on your own, whatever u prefer. something like 40/40/20/20/10 for the nolva

[GFLEXXX]

19yrs old and you did bloodwork...kudos for that!!

[JTsLearning]

Go to a doctor for medical advice.

[Beefkake31]

Forget steroid use and spend the next 5 years learning how to train and eat.

This was not relevant to what he was asking.

[plzr8]

This was not relevant to what he was asking.

agreed...no need to discourage someone when they admit their mistake and actually seek the proper actions (ie. bloodtest)

[Schmidty]

Forget steroid use and spend the next 5 years learning how to train and eat.

have u ever said anything worth listening to?really

[Schmidty]

okay true, but for the mean time, lets help him.
okay man, have u read up all about PCT? you mmight wanna go see an endocrinogist, or a sports med doc and run HCG and about 5 WEEKS of nolva. or do it on your own, whatever u prefer. something like 40/40/20/20/10 for the nolva

I could not have said it any better.

[kaberle_15]

Forget steroid use and spend the next 5 years learning how to train and eat.

Why do your posts sound familiar to someone elses that was banned?

[BG]

I would run another pct, with hcg and Nolava, also using natural test boosting supps. Your young, with some more help you should be able to recover more......................lets hope.

[BigGuy3333]

Thanks for the help guys, I really appreciate it. I have been reading up on PCT ironaddict69. I wanted to run this by your guys,

Now about HCG, I have been reading and HCG can increase estrogen at doses of 500iu or more. Which is something I dont want. But having the dose at 500iu per injection will help my body to recover faster. Now I could either have to dose at 500iu and take Aromasin (an AI) to supress the estrogen raised by HCG or I could go with a lower dose of say 300iu with out the Aromasin which would cause less estrogen to be produced. I have also read that you can get a better response with HCG by taking Vitamen E at 1000iu/day.

What do you think about this?

Week 1-6 Nolva 20mgs/day
Week 1-3 HCG 500iu/day
Week 1-5 Aromasin 25mgs/day
Week 1-3 Vitamen E 1000iu/day
Or instread of HCG I could use Proviron at say 50mgs/day?
I will also be running the supplements Vyotech's Viraloid and 17hd.

[BigGuy3333]

Bump, need help!

[ironaddict69]

nono ur proposed plan sounded great. ive read up on the vitamin E thing, but neve really seen anyone do it. but ur planned out thing there looks perfect, use aromasin, not Proviron. i dunno about that viraloid stuff either, straight tribilus like tribuplex 750 is pretty good, i noticed a stronger libido and more acne with it, also tongkat ali works very well too. save those though. HCG and nolva do it sooo much, just use those.

[Dobie-BOY]

read up on arimidex. specifically its ability to boost natty test. HCG and nolva could be all it takes though. Good luck

[K.Biz]

Forget steroid use and spend the next 5 years learning how to train and eat.

Someone please ban him, your useless to this forum.


Big guy 333 Check out MyogenX as well. I used it as part of my PCT and am continuing to take it right now. Its boosts your test levels natrualy, which is exactly what you need. check it out. there a bunch of info on it in the supp forum.

[BigGuy3333]

This was my proposed plan to help fix my problem,
Week 1-6 Nolva 20mgs/day
Week 1-3 HCG 500iu/day
Week 1-5 Aromasin 25mgs/day
Week 1-3 Vitamen E 1000iu/day
But After doing some research I was questioning using the HCG. It supresses LH levels and only causes minimal raise in natty test levels but also raises estrogen levels. Doesnt seem worth it. And I have also read that it in a couple of instances it has turned guys into minute men essentially...And the only reason I was going to take aromasin was to supress the raised estrogen from the HCG, so do you think that just taking the nolvadex would be sufficient. Oppions please, im trying to straighten myself out.

[jbarkley]

BigGuy I hope this info helps, It By Dr. John Crisler:
AN UPDATE TO THE CRISLER HCG PROTOCOL

By John Crisler, DO



In my paper “My Current Best Thoughts on How to Administer TRT for Men”, published in A4M’s 2004/5 Anti-Aging Clinical Protocols, I introduced a new protocol where small doses of Human Chorionic Gonadotrophin (HCG) are regularly added to traditional TRT (either weekly IM testosterone cypionate or daily cream/gel). The reasons and benefits of this protocol are as follows, along with a new improvement I wish to share:

Any physician who administers TRT will, within the first few months of doing so, field complaints from their patients because they are now experiencing troubling testicular atrophy. Irrespective of the numerous and abundant benefits of TRT, men never enjoy seeing their genitals shrinking! Testicular atrophy occurs because the depressed gonadotropin production, secondary to the HPTA suppression TRT induces, no longer supports them. It is well known that HCG—a Luteinizing Hormone (LH) analog—will effectively, and dramatically, restore the testicles to previous form and function. It accomplishes this due to shared moiety between the alpha subunits of both hormones.

So, that satisfies an aesthetic consideration which should not be ignored. Now let’s delve into the pharmacodynamics of the TRT medications. For those employing injectable
testosterone cypionate, the cypionate ester provides a 5-8 day half-life, depending upon the specific metabolism, activity level, and overall health of the patient. It is now well-established that appropriate TRT using IM injections must be dosed at weekly intervals, in order to avoid seating the patient on a hormonal, and emotional, roller coaster. Adding in some HCG toward the end of the weekly “injection cycle” compensates for the drop in serum androgen levels by the half-life of the cypionate ester. Certainly the body thrives on regularity, and supplementing the TRT with endogenous testosterone production at just the right time—without inappropriately raising androgen OR estrogen (more on that later)—approximates the excellent performance stability of transdermal testosterone delivery systems for those who, for whatever reason or reasons, prefer test cyp.

But there’s another metabolic reason to employ this protocol. When a patient presents with hypogonadism, his testosterone levels are low, but his metabolic pathways are balanced. That is to say—even with all deficiencies included—intermediate products are at their respective baselines, generally balanced against each other. But when we supplement testosterone, he is no longer hypogonadal; but his pathways are now unbalanced. There are greater deficiencies of intermediates. This is why I encourage my patients to supplement DHEA and pregnenolone.

The P450 Side Chain Cleavage enzyme, which converts CHOL into pregnenolone at the initiation of all three metabolic pathways CHOL serves as precursor (the sex hormones, glucocorticoids and mineralcorticoids), is actively stimulated, or depressed, by LH concentrations. It is intuitively consistent that during conditions of lowered testosterone levels, commensurate increases in LH production would serve to stimulate this conversion from CHOL into these pathways, thereby feeding more raw material for increased hormone production. And vice versa. Thus the addition of HCG (which, being a LH analog, also stimulates the P450scc enzyme) helps restore a more natural balance of the hormones within this pathway in patients who are entirely, or even partially, HPTA-suppressed.

It is important that no more than 500IU of HCG be administered on any given day. There is only just so much stimulation possible, and exceeding that not only is wasteful, doing so has important negative consequences. Testosterone only goes so high, but estrogen and progesterone levels continue to increase. Higher doses overly stimulate testicular aromatase, which inappropriately raises estrogen levels, and brings on the detrimental effects of same. It also causes Leydig cell desentization to LH, and we are therefore inducing primary hypogonadism while perhaps treating secondary hypogonadism. 250IU QD is an effective, and safe, dose. After all, we are merely replacing that which is lost to inhibition. Supplementing to physiologic concentration will not induce undue LH cell desentization.

In my previous report I recommended 250IU of HCG twice per week for all TRT patients, taken the day of, along with the day before, the weekly test cyp injection. After looking at countless lab printouts, listening to subjective reports from patients, and learning more about HCG, I am now shifting that regimen forward one day. In other words, my test cyp TRT patients now take their HCG at 250IU two days before, as well as the day immediately previous to, their IM shot. All administer their HCG subcutaneously, and dosage may be adjusted as necessary—but no more than 550IU SC QD.

I made this change after realizing that the previous HCG protocol was boosting serum testosterone levels too much, as the test cyp serum concentrations rise, approaching its peak at roughly the 48-72 hour mark. The original goal of supporting serum androgen levels with HCG had overshot its mark.

Those TRT patients who prefer a transdermal testosterone, or even testosterone pellets (although I am not in favor of same), take their HCG every third day. They needn’t concern themselves with diminishing serum androgen levels from their testosterone delivery system. These patients will, of course, notice an increase in serum androgen levels above baseline.

While HCG, as sole TRT, is still considered treatment of choice for hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism by many , my experience is that it just does not bring the same subjective benefits as pure testosterone delivery systems do—even when similar serum androgen levels are produced from comparable baseline values. However, supplementing the more “traditional” TRT of transdermal, or injected, testosterone with HCG stabilizes serum levels, opposes testicular atrophy, helps rebalance expression of other hormones, and brings reports of greatly increased sense of well-being and libido. My patients absolutely love it. As time goes on, we are coming to appreciate HCG as a much more powerful--and wonderful--hormone than previously given credit.

Copyright John Crisler, DO 2004. This article may, in its entirety or in part, be reprinted and republished without permission, provided that credit is given to its author, with copyright notice and AllThingsMale.com clearly displayed as source. Written permission from Dr. Crisler is required for all other uses.

[Dobie-BOY]

Great read ^

[BigGuy3333]

Wow, great read, thanks.