Clen - Anabolic

[Potentiam]

Hey there, I'm on my first Clen cycle and I've lost some weight, but I'm afraid I've lost some muscle also as the loss has been a bit rapid, of course a lot of it is water weight.

But what I wanted to ask is that I was considering adding a weak anabolic steroid for my next cycle.
20 years old, 98 kilos, 180cm around 19-20% fat
I was just looking for something weak, just enough to preserve my muscle.
Anything you recommend?

[skitz1]

Anavar is probably your best bet.

[kaju]

Clenbuterol is an anicatobolic drug. which means it does not alow you to loose muscle or in better words it lets you keep what gains you have made. It does burn fat but not the way you want it too. Diet is better after yo have lost all your fat you can and down to that last bit of fat that just want seem to come off that is where clen comes in. it burns that last bit of fat that wont seem to come off. Clen is not a diet pill. with out diet it will not not make you loose weight. as far as a week anabolic skitz is right but Im going to give you fair warning. Do not do anything without proper pct. And especialy at your age you do not need it you are on a mild cycle anyway. do not screw up your natural production. Ive seen guys your age do this many times and now at the ripe old age of 23-25 cannot get a hard-on or even worse not even be interest in sex because they done what you are wanting to do. do your home work study and when you think you know enough you dont. do more home work. Ive been doing this for twenty yeaars and still dont know enough.

[InsaneInTheMembrane]

Clenbuterol is an anicatobolic drug. which means it does not alow you to loose muscle or in better words it lets you keep what gains you have made. It does burn fat but not the way you want it too. Diet is better after yo have lost all your fat you can and down to that last bit of fat that just want seem to come off that is where clen comes in. it burns that last bit of fat that wont seem to come off. Clen is not a diet pill. with out diet it will not not make you loose weight. as far as a week anabolic skitz is right but Im going to give you fair warning. Do not do anything without proper pct. And especialy at your age you do not need it you are on a mild cycle anyway. do not screw up your natural production. Ive seen guys your age do this many times and now at the ripe old age of 23-25 cannot get a hard-on or even worse not even be interest in sex because they done what you are wanting to do. do your home work study and when you think you know enough you dont. do more home work. Ive been doing this for twenty yeaars and still dont know enough.

excellent post

[M302_Imola]

Clenbuterol is an anicatobolic drug. which means it does not alow you to loose muscle or in better words it lets you keep what gains you have made. It does burn fat but not the way you want it too. Diet is better after yo have lost all your fat you can and down to that last bit of fat that just want seem to come off that is where clen comes in. it burns that last bit of fat that wont seem to come off. Clen is not a diet pill. with out diet it will not not make you loose weight. as far as a week anabolic skitz is right but Im going to give you fair warning. Do not do anything without proper pct. And especialy at your age you do not need it you are on a mild cycle anyway. do not screw up your natural production. Ive seen guys your age do this many times and now at the ripe old age of 23-25 cannot get a hard-on or even worse not even be interest in sex because they done what you are wanting to do. do your home work study and when you think you know enough you dont. do more home work. Ive been doing this for twenty yeaars and still dont know enough.

Good post, but the jury is not out yet on clen's anticatabolic properties. There is much debate over this topic.

[one8nine]

Clenbuterol is an anicatobolic drug. which means it does not alow you to loose muscle or in better words it lets you keep what gains you have made. It does burn fat but not the way you want it too. Diet is better after yo have lost all your fat you can and down to that last bit of fat that just want seem to come off that is where clen comes in. it burns that last bit of fat that wont seem to come off. Clen is not a diet pill. with out diet it will not not make you loose weight. as far as a week anabolic skitz is right but Im going to give you fair warning. Do not do anything without proper pct. And especialy at your age you do not need it you are on a mild cycle anyway. do not screw up your natural production. Ive seen guys your age do this many times and now at the ripe old age of 23-25 cannot get a hard-on or even worse not even be interest in sex because they done what you are wanting to do. do your home work study and when you think you know enough you dont. do more home work. Ive been doing this for twenty yeaars and still dont know enough.

no offence but take your own advice on research.
clen has shown to be mildly anticatibolic at ridicilous doses in animals.
not in humans at dosages we use

[JiGGaMaN]

no offence but take your own advice on research.
clen has shown to be mildly anticatibolic at ridicilous doses in animals.
not in humans at dosages we use

Not to mention animals have different enzymes with varying efficiency/deficiency relative to humans. Although they may be a good indicator of what may occur, the proportional dosages for the same effect are generally dissimilar.

[MR_T]

Hey there, I'm on my first Clen cycle and I've lost some weight, but I'm afraid I've lost some muscle also as the loss has been a bit rapid, of course a lot of it is water weight.

But what I wanted to ask is that I was considering adding a weak anabolic steroid for my next cycle.
20 years old, 98 kilos, 180cm around 19-20% fat
I was just looking for something weak, just enough to preserve my muscle.
Anything you recommend?

bro your bf is high, I would cut the clen out for a couple of months and just try a shit load of cardio with a good diet and save the clen till you reach 13-15%. Something tells me your diet could use some work

[InsaneInTheMembrane]

no offence but take your own advice on research.
clen has shown to be mildly anticatibolic at ridicilous doses in animals.
not in humans at dosages we use

^^^ it's ironic you should say that

the clen profile on this forum's main site cites a study (which also cites the orig. publication) done on horses, which showed that after administration of clen for 6 weeks at dosages close to what we humans take (1 mcg per lb, hence not "ridiculous" like you said), there was a notable increase of fat-free mass compared to the control grp. What you are referring to were studies done on mice/rats at dosages of 1-2 mg/day, which also showed anabolism. We humans are neither rats nor horses, so our receptors respond differently; however, more often than not, anecdotal evidence (myself included) points to clen being anti-catabolic, if not anabolic, in humans eventhough no formal human tests have been administered. However, the closest studies I could find had this to say:

To further investigate the mechanisms involved in clenbuterol induced
hypertrophy, another study was conducted with primary human muscle cell
culture. To this end we compared the action of clenbuterol with the action of
DAPT, a pharmacological inhibitor of Notch signalling and a prohibited
substance in athletes. The results obtained here showed that clenbuterol and
DAPT act as hypertrophic agents in vitro. They also indicate that these
“anabolic” agents possess the ability to down-regulate the myostatin
pathway. Indeed, myostatin could be a major player in the anabolic action of
these compounds.

AND THIS:

National Research Council, National Aeronautics and Space Administration, Johnson Space Center, Houston, TX 77059.

Clenbuterol (Cb) is a beta2-adrenergic agonist that has been demonstrated in vivo to have anabolic activity (increased muscle mass and protein content) in denervated rats. However, little data exists regarding the effect of Cb on human myotubes. The objective of this study was to determine the direct effects of Cb on myotubes. Primary human myoblasts were grown in 24-well trays to 100% confluency, then fed a defined medium containing either Cb or vehicle (H2O). Cb increased the total protein content (n = 6) in a dose dependent fashion (see graph), with the greatest response at 10(-5) M (129.0% of control). [graph: see text] Cb had no effect on total DNA content and marginally decreased the DNA/protein ratio by 66.4 +/- 3.6% of the control at 10(-8) M. Cb increased the number of late stage myotubes (maximum = 221.8 +/- 65.4% of control at 10(-5) M, p < 0.001, N = 20) and their rate of formation in a dose-dependent manner. We conclude that the anabolic effects of Cb are expressed in vitro as: 1) a dose-dependent increase in the total protein content and; 2) an increase in myotube density and rate of late stage myotube formation

...these two studies are abstracts so no dosages were ascertained. We can however deduce 3 things from what I have posted/cited:

- Clen, at humanlike dosages have proven to be anabolic, at least in horses
- In vitro studies done on human cells with clen have also exhibited anabolism, albeit without knowledge of dosages
- anecdotal evidence points to clen at least being an effective anti-catabolic at dosages between 100-180 mcgs

My conclusion - it works taken as an anti-catabolic.... you're free to draw yours

[one8nine]

^^^ it's ironic you should say that

the clen profile on this forum's main site cites a study (which also cites the orig. publication) done on horses, which showed that after administration of clen for 6 weeks at dosages close to what we humans take (1 mcg per lb, hence not "ridiculous" like you said), there was a notable increase of fat-free mass compared to the control grp. What you are referring to were studies done on mice/rats at dosages of 1-2 mg/day, which also showed anabolism. We humans are neither rats nor horses, so our receptors respond differently; however, more often than not, anecdotal evidence (myself included) points to clen being anti-catabolic, if not anabolic, in humans eventhough no formal human tests have been administered. However, the closest studies I could find had this to say:

To further investigate the mechanisms involved in clenbuterol induced
hypertrophy, another study was conducted with primary human muscle cell
culture. To this end we compared the action of clenbuterol with the action of
DAPT, a pharmacological inhibitor of Notch signalling and a prohibited
substance in athletes. The results obtained here showed that clenbuterol and
DAPT act as hypertrophic agents in vitro. They also indicate that these
“anabolic” agents possess the ability to down-regulate the myostatin
pathway. Indeed, myostatin could be a major player in the anabolic action of
these compounds.

AND THIS:

National Research Council, National Aeronautics and Space Administration, Johnson Space Center, Houston, TX 77059.

Clenbuterol (Cb) is a beta2-adrenergic agonist that has been demonstrated in vivo to have anabolic activity (increased muscle mass and protein content) in denervated rats. However, little data exists regarding the effect of Cb on human myotubes. The objective of this study was to determine the direct effects of Cb on myotubes. Primary human myoblasts were grown in 24-well trays to 100% confluency, then fed a defined medium containing either Cb or vehicle (H2O). Cb increased the total protein content (n = 6) in a dose dependent fashion (see graph), with the greatest response at 10(-5) M (129.0% of control). [graph: see text] Cb had no effect on total DNA content and marginally decreased the DNA/protein ratio by 66.4 +/- 3.6% of the control at 10(-8) M. Cb increased the number of late stage myotubes (maximum = 221.8 +/- 65.4% of control at 10(-5) M, p < 0.001, N = 20) and their rate of formation in a dose-dependent manner. We conclude that the anabolic effects of Cb are expressed in vitro as: 1) a dose-dependent increase in the total protein content and; 2) an increase in myotube density and rate of late stage myotube formation

...these two studies are abstracts so no dosages were ascertained. We can however deduce 3 things from what I have posted/cited:

- Clen, at humanlike dosages have proven to be anabolic, at least in horses
- In vitro studies done on human cells with clen have also exhibited anabolism, albeit without knowledge of dosages
- anecdotal evidence points to clen at least being an effective anti-catabolic at dosages between 100-180 mcgs

My conclusion - it works taken as an anti-catabolic.... you're free to draw yours

much respect for the research but im going to have to disagree with the conclusion

[InsaneInTheMembrane]

much respect for the research but im going to have to disagree with the conclusion

it's cool bro I don't think we'll ever have a definitive answer

...had WAY too much free time on my hands last night

cheers

[Dog-Slime]

much respect for the research but im going to have to disagree with the conclusion

I agree. Speaking from experience clen is NOT anti-catabolic and if it is it only allows you to not lose as much muscle as you would have, but you will still lose muscle when running it with no steroids. My experience with albuterol is a lil diff tho, it seemed to help me hold onto muscle and even gave a little extra strength. Although, it did very little for me in terms of fatloss.

To the original poster: You don't need to take any steroids at your age. You don't need clen either. At that high of a bf you should be able to see and tell a difference JUST from dieting, not to mention doing cardio (either in the morning on an empty stomach or just after working out but dont drink or eat anything cept water fore you do it)

[Kratos]

a small dose in a horse equates to a huge dose in a human
no evidence it is anticatabolic in humans as of yet

best post is the one about focus on your diet and cardio and forget the clen for a little while.

[john1181]

this was origionaly posted by AR member "timtim"......
J Appl Physiol. 2004 Dec 10; [Epub ahead of print] Related Articles, Links

{beta}2-Adrenergic receptor stimulation in vivo induces apoptosis in the rat heart and soleus muscle.

Burniston JG, Tan LB, Goldspink DF.

Research Institute for Sports and Exercise Sciences, Liverpool John Moores University, Liverpool, United Kingdom.

High doses of the beta2-adrenergic receptor (AR) agonist, Clenbuterol, can induce necrotic myocyte death in the heart and slow-twitch skeletal muscle of the rat. However, it is not known if this agent can also induce myocyte apoptosis and whether this would occur at a lower dose than previously reported for myocyte necrosis. Male Wistar rats were given single subcutaneous injections of Clenbuterol. Immunohistochemistry was used to detect myocyte specific apoptosis (detected on cryosections using a caspase 3 antibody and confirmed using annexin V, single-strand DNA labelling and TUNEL). Myocyte apoptosis was first detected at 2 h, and peaked 4 h after Clenbuterol administration. The lowest dose of Clenbuterol to induce cardiomyocyte apoptosis was 1 microg kg(-1), with peak apoptosis (0.35 +/- 0.005 %; P<0.05) occurring in response to 5 mg kg(-1) . In the soleus, peak apoptosis (5.8 +/- 2 %; P<0.05) was induced by the lower dose of 10 microg kg(-1). Cardiomyocyte apoptosis occurred throughout the ventricles, atria and papillary muscles. However, this damage was most abundant in the left ventricular subendocardium at a point 1.6 mm, that is, approximately one-quarter of the way from the apex towards the base. beta-AR antagonism (involving propranolol, bisoprolol or ICI 118,551) or reserpine was used to show that clenbuterol-induced myocardial apoptosis was mediated through neuromodulation of the sympathetic system and the cardiomyocyte beta1-AR, whereas in the soleus direct stimulation of the myocyte beta2-AR was involved. These data show that when administered in vivo, beta2-AR stimulation by Clenbuterol is detrimental to cardiac and skeletal muscles even at low doses, by inducing apoptosis through beta1- and beta2-AR, respectively.

I AM STAYING AWAY FROM THIS CRAP!! GET SOME ACETYL L- CARNITINE SOME CLA SOME OTHER FAT BURNER FROM ANY SUPP STORE AND DIET OUT AND HIT UP THE CARDIO..IN A MONTH OR TWO YOU WILL HAVE DROPPED DOWN A LOT OF WEIGHT..AND AFTER THAN IF YOU WANT SOMETHING SAFE GET SOME ANAVAR! SAFEST STEROID WILL GIVE YOU POWER AND CUT U UP! CLEN IS OVERRATED

[john1181]

l-carnitine, cla, green tea, caffiene, diet, cardio, intense weight lifting...look up dc training....a buddy of mines only used carnitine and cardi with dc training and in amonth lost 20lbs!!! never got it back! diet is key! like dogslime said dont take no meds..and if you eer consider taking aas go with anavar...it was created for childen that lack of height and other rasons but its not liver toxc nor does it shut u down...at a reasonable dose..wich from reading around is about 30mg/day