Can you use nolva with deca if on caber?

[Dog-Slime]

Hey guys is it still a bad idea to use nolva on a deca cycle even if on caber?

[Immortal Soldier]

What are you using the nolva for? The test your running along side deca?

[Mammon]

well caber will help with prolactin levels but prolactin on its own wont cause gyno.
so in that aspect it makes no difference.. there could be other issues with using nolvadex with deca (progesterone related) but with that said i do it all the time..

[Mammon]

What are you using the nolva for? The test your running along side deca?

ahhh, good question

[Immortal Soldier]

well caber will help with prolactin levels but prolactin on its own wont cause gyno.
so in that aspect it makes no difference.. there could be other issues with using nolvadex with deca (progesterone related) but with that said i do it all the time..

Yes, but Caber/Bromo are used for progesterone related gyno which Deca can induce. (It cannot induce estrogen related gyno)

[Mammon]

but progesterone cant become a factor without the presence of estrogen..

[Immortal Soldier]

but progesterone cant become a factor without the presence of estrogen..

Which is where the test he is running along side Deca comes into play...

[Mammon]

correct.. odds are if there is a problem its estrogen related. directly or indirectly.. so keeping the estrogen under control will solve the problem.
actually i think the best bet is to run an AI during the cycle, but if gyno symptoms pop up i would not hesitate to use nolvadex..
i use b6 during tren and deca cycles to help keep prolactin levels in check but always have caber on hand incase the b6 dont cut it..

[Immortal Soldier]

correct.. odds are if there is a problem its estrogen related. directly or indirectly.. so keeping the estrogen under control will solve the problem.
actually i think the best bet is to run an AI during the cycle, but if gyno symptoms pop up i would not hesitate to use nolvadex..
i use b6 during tren and deca cycles to help keep prolactin levels in check but always have caber on hand incase the b6 dont cut it..

Nolva and Armidex together on cycle. Since wouldn't armidex not fight nolva for receptors in the breast thus giving the best two-way combo? (Armi to lower estrogen and nolva to take block estrogen in the best from test)

[Mammon]

oswaldo decided to be a guinne pig awhile ago and ran a deca only cycle at 800mg a week to see its effects.. these are his results..

the values.
....................before cycle---------on cycle (week 5)
estradiol--------30.2 pg/ml----------74.9 pg/ml
prolactin--------11.1 pg/ml----------11.2 pg/ml
free t4-----------1.2 ng/dl------------1.3 ng/dl

post cycle.

estradiol------- 68.30-------pg/ml
prolactin--------.9.70-------pg/ml
free T4---------.1.10-------ng/dl

well, no prolactin increase, estradiol stabilized (but supraphysiological) and free T 4 normal.

[Mammon]

adex limits the conversion of test to estrogen..
nolvadex keeps the estrogen thats present from binding to the receptors.
having had issues in the past i do run both together.. might be a bit of overkill but it works for me and i sure dont want to battle that shit again.. id rather prevent it from happening then have it pop up and have to treat it.

[Dog-Slime]

Im not having a problem guys. I was just curious as to if something did pop up if I could use nolva to combat it immediately since I am already taking caber.

[Mammon]

yes....

[steropower]

oswaldo decided to be a guinne pig awhile ago and ran a deca only cycle at 800mg a week to see its effects.. these are his results..

the values.
....................before cycle---------on cycle (week 5)
estradiol--------30.2 pg/ml----------74.9 pg/ml
prolactin--------11.1 pg/ml----------11.2 pg/ml
free t4-----------1.2 ng/dl------------1.3 ng/dl

post cycle.

estradiol------- 68.30-------pg/ml
prolactin--------.9.70-------pg/ml
free T4---------.1.10-------ng/dl

well, no prolactin increase, estradiol stabilized (but supraphysiological) and free T 4 normal.

Very interesting!

I would like to see that results with Tren too.

[Deep_Fried]

Mammary tissue growth is regulated by a balance of 3 hmain hormones. Estrogen, Progesterone, and Prolactin.

19nors are Progestins which bind to the Progesterone receptor to mediate mammary tissue development. Progesterone receptor is very sensitive to Estrogen levels and will upregulate greatly if E is high. Thus, 19nors have a better chance of contributing to lobuloalveolar growth via the Progeterone receptor because of this.
The best defense is to keep E low. this will minimize the potential of Progesterone action.

OK, Caber and Bromo are Dopamine receptor agonists (D2 agonists) which can blunt the pitutary's prolactin secretion.

Even though Estrogen and Progesterone are of concern here, some people do have an increase in Prolactin or naturally higher levels.
This can exacerbate the issue, however, may not apply to everyone.

There were some in vitro and vivo studies that showed progesterone and progestins actually downregulate the prolactin receptor. Other studies do show that progesterone has an available pathway possibly at the hypothalamus which causes the pituitary to over secrete prolactin. However, these are not consistant findings.

In short, the biggest concern with 19nors is controlling Estrogen which will also inhibit Progesterone action as well.

An AI such as Arimidex, Letrozole, Aromasin will be the best course.

SERMS are NOT ideal for 19nor. The reason is because SERMS such as Tamoxifen have been shown to act exactly as E itself with respect to the upregulation of the Progesterone receptor in breast tissue. Using Nolvadex can alow greated 19nor binding to the upregulated PGR receptors mediated through the serm.