17aa steroids increases IGF1 ???

[xxterxx]

i came across a website that says 17aa steroids when passing through the liver for deactivation it actually increases IGF-1 ...

how true is this

[LATS60]

All AAS's increase IGF I and bioavailability by binding to IGF I receptors, increasing RNA's that translate to increased protein and glycogen synthesis and inhibition of catabolism.

AAS have a direct (androgen receptors) and indirect (IGF I receptors) effect on the genetic machinery, this is called the double receptor effect and acts synergistically to promote increased skeletal muscle mass.

Orals have no greater effect in doing this than any other AAS as far as i'm aware.

[jimmyinkedup]

i believe where this is most evident is when it comes to winstrol - oral winny supposedly increses igf more than when injected.... (although both versions are 17aa - oral goes through 1st pass - inj goes through 2nd pass)

[romo6]

All AAS's increase IGF I and bioavailability by binding to IGF I receptors, increasing RNA's that translate to increased protein and glycogen synthesis and inhibition of catabolism.

AAS have a direct (androgen receptors) and indirect (IGF I receptors) effect on the genetic machinery, this is called the double receptor effect and acts synergistically to promote increased skeletal muscle mass.

Orals have no greater effect in doing this than any other AAS as far as i'm aware.

Excellent info.

[jimmyinkedup]

ive always heard some actually lower igf - what lats posted makes sense so i dunno - here are 2 studies that state igf is lowered with high consistant doses of aas :
http://books.google.com/books?id=uzP...um=8&ct=result
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=2412508

[jimmyinkedup]

duplicate

[LATS60]

ive always heard some actually lower igf - what lats posted makes sense so i dunno - here are 2 studies that state igf is lowered with high consistant doses of aas :
http://books.google.com/books?id=uzP...um=8&ct=result
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=2412508

Blame this guy LOL.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=O...um=2&ct=result

[jimmyinkedup]

*L* not looking to blame anybody ...fact of the matter is - oral or inj - higher or lower igf blah blah blah - they (roids) work and work well....any diff IMO would prob be negligible between oral / inj if there is any diff at all. Also slightly higher or slightly lower - whatever - other mechanisms obviously make up for any lowering effects at all - and you gain muscle regardless. Kind of my theory on the nolva with test - nolva lowers igf - but test does increase igf right *L* (we may have been down that road before - and we agree there are better options !!) At any rate i wouldnt be all rah rah for orals for any significant igf benefit - thats for sure.

[LATS60]

*L* not looking to blame anybody ...fact of the matter is - oral or inj - higher or lower igf blah blah blah - they (roids) work and work well....any diff IMO would prob be negligible between oral / inj if there is any diff at all. Also slightly higher or slightly lower - whatever - other mechanisms obviously make up for any lowering effects at all - and you gain muscle regardless. Kind of my theory on the nolva with test - nolva lowers igf - but test does increase igf right *L* (we may have been down that road before - and we agree there are better options !!) At any rate i wouldnt be all rah rah for orals for any significant igf benefit - thats for sure.

Totally agree jimmy as usual.

[powerliftmike]

Most IGF-1 is made in the liver, the theory goes that increased liver stress causes an increased release. Many claim this is why oral winny seems to be more effective than inject