clen with T3...

[El Corvino]

I have been researching and discussing with a friend of mine, taking my work outs to the next level. Been working out consistently since June 08.

Age: 22
Weight: 206
B/F: About 17%
Height: 5 foot 9
Currently: Creatine, Amino tabs, Glutamine powder
Workouts: 6 days a week... 2 a day (cardio for an hour before breakfast, weights in evening)
Diet: Pretty good... not optimal

Was going to throw Clen and T3 into my current set up and wanted to know what some of you think for doses. I was being directed to start at about 200 micrograms a day for each. What do you kids think?

Also, I am considering adding HGH on a "permanent cycle"... at about 6iu a day split once in the AM before cardio and another in the noon.
IGF-1 will likely be cycled in this 40 days on and 40 days off...

I am looking to cut down as much fat as possible and get as much clean muscle gains as possible. (aren't we all)

[johnnybigguns]

heres a good read on clen

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=269240

If you wanna cut fat its all about diet and cardio nothing else will help if you don't have those in check. I would stay away from hgh at your age.

[Reed]

Try to exhaust all options before diving into drugs.... Time is on your side

[El Corvino]

My cardio and ab routine are top notch. I really can't see putting much more time into it.

My diet is about 70% where I want it to be and it will be improved over the next month. I started at 220 lbs about 9 months ago and as I said above, have dropped to about 206 lbs. I know if I keep up the hard work and my current diet I will EVENTUALLY get the results, but I would like to speed up the process and start my clean gains asap.

Johnnybiggunss: that you for the write up on clen. I am curious as to why you say stay away from HGH at age 22. If all my growth plates are closed what other negative effects can it have at a 6iu dosage?

[Reed]

HGH is a long term investment... You'll need to start at 2iu a day run that for a few weeks and SLOWLY bump it from there to access the sides... Best way to run it is for a minimum of 6-7 months which will cost $$$


Read the stickys down in the HGH thread

[El Corvino]

I was going to put the money up front and buy a 12 - 18 month cycle so I will have it all and there will be NO issues or reason why I wouldn't run it long term. I figured at the 9 month mark I would purchase another 12 to 18 month supply. I am combining my order with my friends and a few others locally so that should bring the price down... but I know its still good money.

I live by "you get what you pay for" and I am looking for the cleanest safest gains.

[El Corvino]

I'm not going to lie... I was expecting more help. Am I asking stupid questions or something? I did not see any cookie cutter threads that said If you are XYZ take Xiu of HGH. I was asking for anyone with extensive knowledge or experience to give their input to my specific situation and what they think.

I guess I will just order T3 and Clen and get started since there are no objections. I saw most people are doing 50 mcg of it but I see no reason why I can't do the same as the guy I train with and do 200 mcg... and adjust from there.

3 days on and 3 days off for 40 days and evaluate my acheivements...

I see a lot of guys want me to gradually build up my dosage but myself and the guy i train with think that will only add to my body getting used to it. I have not seen any documentation that proves jumping in at a decent size dosage will do harm.... anyone want to prove me wrong? Please do so, so that I don't hurt myself.

[D7M]

if you want to run the clen, go ahead.

The t3 will just waste away your muslce if you're not running anything with it.

My opinion is to post up your diet, and let the experts critique it so you can get it
to be 100% on, not just 70&.

[El Corvino]

ok... today I ate... this is about as honest as it gets. Like I said, I know im not optimal, but i still think its pretty good. I don't drink ANY soda or eat candy or chips. Every once in a while I drink an Iced tea.

9 AM cardio at gym for an hour
10 AM 3 eggs, wheat toast, rasins and peanuts

11:30 AM protein bar
12:30 2 chicken breasts and a small salad

2:30 PM a ham sandwich on wheat with mustard

5 PM a steak with corn (sugar i know) and another small salad

I am going back to the gym now and when I get home around 7:45 I will make my protein shake with ice, milk, and 2 scoops of protein powder.

I am training for me and so I look good... I am not training to compete, I do not do any thing like that nor have any desire to. I work security at a night club and do as little as possible in terms of work and try to talk to as many girls as possible in 1 night.

[El Corvino]

The t3 will just waste away your muslce if you're not running anything with it.

I thought that the T3 would help to burn my fat... not muscle. I have a chubby mid section but musclular upper and lower boddy. Due to years of a horrific diet. haha The T3 wouldn't burn my fat first and then when I move on to a lower BF % begin to waste the muscles?

My work outs are pretty intense. I am doing Iam Kings great guns right now. I have added my legs since about 2 months ago... it really sucks having to move bodies out of the club the day after an intense leg work out. lol

[Gears]

I thought that the T3 would help to burn my fat... not muscle. I have a chubby mid section but musclular upper and lower boddy. Due to years of a horrific diet. haha The T3 wouldn't burn my fat first and then when I move on to a lower BF % begin to waste the muscles?

My work outs are pretty intense. I am doing Iam Kings great guns right now. I have added my legs since about 2 months ago... it really sucks having to move bodies out of the club the day after an intense leg work out. lol

T3 is indiscriminate about what it uses for enegry... It will do whatever it takes to burn the set amount of calories at whatever dose. I wouldnt run it at 200mcg either... Thats a bit high imo, even on gear. I've went up to 120mcg and still lost muscle while on Test-E granted I was cutting on a calorie defecit. As far as clen goes, there is no reason not to start off slow and ramp up. Themogenics like this can be dangerous if you don't know how your body will respond, and for the record I didn't notice any difference between 120mcg and 200mcg when I was on clen.

[MUSCLETRON]

what about albuterol? are the affects better that clen or do i have use T3

[El Corvino]

Gears: Thank you. I will have to rethink taking the T3. You say it does not discriminate when burning... will it burn the fat first or just burn what ever my body feels like burning off?

[El Corvino]

I spoke with my guy who really knows his stuff. He said as long as I keep my protein intake where it should be (a balanced diet) I should have no issues with the T3. Objections?

[Gears]

I spoke with my guy who really knows his stuff. He said as long as I keep my protein intake where it should be (a balanced diet) I should have no issues with the T3. Objections?

Thats not always true, at a lower dose at like 50mcg it might actually aid in protien synth. But when you get into the higher ranges it will burn muscle regardless, the reason being that your energy expendature becomes so high that beta oxidation becomes too slow to provide sufficent energy, so it starts to work into glycogen/muscle. High protien intake will obviously slow the process down, but it won't stop it.

T3 is nice, but I honestly didn't like it much. If you insist on running it, I wouldn't ramp it to numbers like 200mcg/day.

[Gears]

I forgot to mention there are a lot of variables to considers, including your genetic limits (how far you are from them), your bodyfat%, your current mass, etc. Obviously the lower your bodyfat, the more apt your body is going to be to burn up muscle, which is why it's so hard to reach a very low bodyfat% naturally at any kind of reasonable weight.

Here is a good read on P-ratios by Lyle McDonald, also a good thing to consider. And on the same note it helps enforce the fact that people should wait untill they are under a certain bodyfat% before they start bulking considering leptins effect on lowering testosterone, raising cortisol, etc..

Here is the article: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/core3.htm

[El Corvino]

thank you sir I appreciate the reading material. Will read it and get back if I have more questions.

- Though you said T3 may not be ideal for me at 200 mcg/day, maybe if i started off at 50 mcg/day and saw if there were any results after a month or do you think I would be best to run just the clen and evaluate after 30/40 days?