1st cycle not seeing the results

[NT1946]

I am currently on my first trip to the dark side. I have been working out naturaly for four or five years and seen very minor gains. I decided to go to the dark side and a friend told me a good start would be winn and primo.
I am currently in week five of an eight week cycle taking 80 mg winn (tabs) a day and 100 mg (tabs) of primo a day. I am seeing alot more gains then when I was natural, however nothing what I expected.

My question is what is a good second cycle that I could try to really put on some mass without too many side effects.

35
6 foot 220 lbs

[T-MOS]

it would help if you gave us your complete stats

age
height
weight
bodyfat %
PCT knowledge
Goals for this cycle



bodyfat will help us?


are your Tabs real steroids , or just supplements

diet has a lot to do with gains
how is your libido?
If your tabs are real steroids, then your natural test should be shut down

[Immortal Soldier]

well both winny and primo are used more for "cutting" or "leaning" than bulking.

I call them "summer drugs" because everyone loves running them towards the summer for beach season.

[NT1946]

sorry

35 age
6 foot
220 lbs
think about 18% body fat
PCT knowledge is not much. My friend told me that I did not need any PCT with this cycle because winn and primo are so mild.

They are tabs that I purchased in mex from a trusted source. (well trusted to my friend that has been buying them from same place for 2 years).

My diet is going good. I am taking about 230 grams of protein a day and trying for more. My libido was excellent, however in the last week I have noticed that it is dropping slightly.

My goals for this cycle was to put on some size and cut off some fat.

[NT1946]

ref "summer drugs" that was kinda the reason I was taking them. I was also trying a mild stuff to get my feet wet. My overall goal is to put on as much muscle as possible, without having the major side effects (I guess that is all of our goals).
I have been reading until my eyes fall out and it is just way too much information so I thought I would just ask

[T-MOS]

PCT is ALWAYS needed when using suppressive compounds, mild or not, they will shut you down.....

winny is not the best choice for bodyfat that high, its used when bodyfat is already under 10 % so you may not notice much from it

Libido drop is due to your HPTA shutting down...

[NT1946]

ok so what would you recommend for PCT's

[T-MOS]

I would recomend taking some time to LEARN about them so you know what and why you need them. This is the only body you get, you should be doing more than taking other peoples word for things.

there is a great PCT section here, just spend 30 minutes and read the top threads and put something together for us to look at and we will help you tweek what you come up with

[Immortal Soldier]

ref "summer drugs" that was kinda the reason I was taking them. I was also trying a mild stuff to get my feet wet. My overall goal is to put on as much muscle as possible, without having the major side effects (I guess that is all of our goals).
I have been reading until my eyes fall out and it is just way too much information so I thought I would just ask

Thats the thing you wouldn't be adding alot of muscle with those compounds since they are not mass builders but rather leaning drugs that make your muscles fuller and more cut in apperance while adding some lean body mass, but nothing staggering.

For example, if you added test to that cycle @ 500mg you probably would gain a good amount of muscle, I gained 20lbs off a test only cycle.

[NT1946]

kewl thanks

[NT1946]

thanks soldier. I have been reading like t-mos said and I know I need novadex and maybe clomid, but not sure cause the clomid seems to be for harder stuff.

I know that next cycle I am going to try just one cycle of test.

If I may ask, what test did you do and what was your pct that you used. also any side effects??

[hollaatyoboy]

250 mg of test twice a week for 12 weeks is a good beginer cycle u can eve throw 35 mg of d-bol ed to kick start it for the first 5 weeks and your pct should look something like this


nolvadex 40/20/20/20 4 weeks
clomid 100/50/50/50 4 weeks

[NT1946]

250 mg of test twice a week for 12 weeks is a good beginer cycle u can eve throw 35 mg of d-bol ed to kick start it for the first 5 weeks and your pct should look something like this


nolvadex 40/20/20/20 4 weeks
clomid 100/50/50/50 4 weeks

with that cycle what was your side effects if any??? and was that test E

[lovbyts]

Good information above, I agree and keep reading. Obviously your friend knows very little and gave you bad advise, thats why you NEVER just believe someone on something like this without doing some research and you obviously know this or you would not be here.

Now comes the hard part, try to educate your friend also but he may already know everything. LOL

Welcome.

Not a great first cycle, orals only are never a good idea. Trust me, I know. I wanted to do the same, I HATE needles but thinking pills are better/safer is backwards thinking. Read and learn. The most important section here is the diet section. OMG you will be overwhelmed. If you want to see real results, that's the place to go.

Good luck.

[NT1946]

Good information above, I agree and keep reading. Obviously your friend knows very little and gave you bad advise, thats why you NEVER just believe someone on something like this without doing some research and you obviously know this or you would not be here.

Now comes the hard part, try to educate your friend also but he may already know everything. LOL

Welcome.

Not a great first cycle, orals only are never a good idea. Trust me, I know. I wanted to do the same, I HATE needles but thinking pills are better/safer is backwards thinking. Read and learn. The most important section here is the diet section. OMG you will be overwhelmed. If you want to see real results, that's the place to go.

Good luck.

yea I am not really afraid of the needles but the side effects of the harder stuff. I seem to be getting alot of education on test E. It seems that it is pretty safe and almost evertying that I read says that if you take it with the proper PCT's then you will have almost no side effects.

[DEE151]

I am currently on my first trip to the dark side. I have been working out naturaly for four or five years and seen very minor gains. I decided to go to the dark side and a friend told me a good start would be winn and primo.
I am currently in week five of an eight week cycle taking 80 mg winn (tabs) a day and 100 mg (tabs) of primo a day. I am seeing alot more gains then when I was natural, however nothing what I expected.

My question is what is a good second cycle that I could try to really put on some mass without too many side effects.

35
6 foot 220 lbs

it because your taking ORAL'S if you threw some Test C or E in it you would see some good gains and be a man

[T-MOS]

yea I am not really afraid of the needles but the side effects of the harder stuff. I seem to be getting alot of education on test E. It seems that it is pretty safe and almost evertying that I read says that if you take it with the proper PCT's then you will have almost no side effects.

ALL steroids have side effects. the ones you are taking now have them. This is why you need to LEARN how to deal with and prepare for them

start here:

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=355742

[lovbyts]

yea I am not really afraid of the needles but the side effects of the harder stuff. I seem to be getting alot of education on test E. It seems that it is pretty safe and almost evertying that I read says that if you take it with the proper PCT's then you will have almost no side effects.

By taking orals only you are risking more side effects than something like Test and as stated, ALL steroids have potential side effects with out proper PCT and monitoring.

Like I said, it's backwards thinking. I though the same. OK pills/orals MUST be safer than injection, easier on the system. NOPE. Doesnt work that way. You have more chance of hurting your liver/kidneys and ending up with life long problems.