Feeling lowwwww

[xpunksurferx]

Well it has been 5 days since my first inject. Switched from 10g of gel to 100mg p week, did 200 this week. I am feeling like crap!!! I don't know why, but each day I have felt lower and lower. Did this happen to those of you who made the switch as well? Do I need to let it build up before I get the positive results back?

[durak]

Do you have any refills left on the cream/gel?

[xpunksurferx]

ya, I have 3

[durak]

Personally, I would do half the dose of that for a few weeks and see if that help out. Remember to get it out of your system before your blood test.

Most people get a high for a few weeks after starting trt. Because you were already on it, i suppose you will miss out on that aspect. The cyp should build up in your system over a few weeks.(this is what I hear, cannot testify for it.)

[xpunksurferx]

I put the gel on today and within 15 minutes I already feel the effects, maybe the cyp isn't absorbing properly with the 1" needle to the glutes?

[durak]

maybe but not probable. cyp can be done sc as well (i do not do IM).

What was your test level with the dermal before switching?

[xpunksurferx]

I didn't get bw done before switching, I just called the doc and asked him to switch and he made an appt. Thing is, he gave me an inj in office of 100mg, and then I did my first inject 3 days later 100mg, however from now on my script is for 50mg e3 1/2d

[durak]

I would suspect the injections at a lower level of T for you. Hence my point earlier about getting blood tests sooner than later. Now you have a legit reason...

[xpunksurferx]

Do you mean that the injects have a lower effect on me?

[durak]

i am saying that 100mg of cyp is not equal to what you were taking dermal

[xpunksurferx]

I agree, however I took 200mg this week :-/

[durak]

people claim they don't feel much for 2-3 weeks. I really don't know though in a dermal to injection. Just keep supplementing for a bit.

[xpunksurferx]

I took the 10g of gel yesterday, and honestly I felt great. I still feel good today. I am also a little sore from my inject on sunday. Hopefully I am on to something here

[durak]

You should do bi-weekly injections too. It will help.

I know nothing about gels. Does anyone here have an idea what test level someone will have when on the 10g gel?

[xpunksurferx]

from what I have read some people get to 500's others to high 8's, but there are so many people who use them that do not post online here, I am interested if doc's have tried a combo of both. I just had my first workout since applying the gel and it went awesome. In one day back on the gel combined with the injects I am starting to feel the positive effects of the TRT.

I am wondering if it's due to applying the gel in combo or the ester of the cyp starting to release the med.

I am doing bi-weekly. I started last week with 200mg split. This week I am gonna drop it to 50g bi weekly and then call my doc to advise if I can continue with this protocol. Most likely he will say no, then I have to decide whether to stick with gel or shots

[durak]

personally I would not tell my doc I was taking the gel and injection. Risk making him not trusting you. Your honest complaint is that the 100mg cyp is not strong enough.

[xpunksurferx]

thats true, I am not going to take both for a while, I am going to give the inject another week to see if it works, if not I will stick with the gel until my bw next month. The gel wasn't working bad

[xpunksurferx]

Did not get up today, still feelin' like a champ. gf likes it. injected 50mg right quad, glute huurrrrt like hell yesterday. Will update in the self injects thread in 2 days to see how I feel.

[durak]

Some talk about injection pain, never had it myself. What gauge are you using? And do you use a different pin to pull it?

[xpunksurferx]

I use a 21g, no to the different pin just because I didn't get it from the pharmacy, the acutal inject dosent hurt. just the after math

[Epic Ed]

I suspect the problem is with the timing of absorption differences between the two forms of test. The gel is transdermal and has a short half life, meaning it is in and out of your system quickly. The test cyp is an ester based injection with a half life of 14 days (or so). It takes a couple of weeks of injections to get your blood levels up to a base level because the ester is long lasting and not absorbed as quickly.

Do your injections as scheduled for the next three weeks and then start tapering off your gel. If you don't give the test cyp enough time to reach therapeutic levels you'll never realize the benefit. If you don't taper the gel after three weeks you'll have elevated test blood levels -- which may not be a bad thing, but it also may not be what you or your doctor are trying to achieve.

[xpunksurferx]

I suspect the problem is with the timing of absorption differences between the two forms of test. The gel is transdermal and has a short half life, meaning it is in and out of your system quickly. The test cyp is an ester based injection with a half life of 14 days (or so). It takes a couple of weeks of injections to get your blood levels up to a base level because the ester is long lasting and not absorbed as quickly.

Do your injections as scheduled for the next three weeks and then start tapering off your gel. If you don't give the test cyp enough time to reach therapeutic levels you'll never realize the benefit. If you don't taper the gel after three weeks you'll have elevated test blood levels -- which may not be a bad thing, but it also may not be what you or your doctor are trying to achieve.

Thanks for your advice. I am going to stick with it as followed, I stopped the gel for now but I will use a tube if I start feeling like crap again

[durak]

I use a 21g, no to the different pin just because I didn't get it from the pharmacy, the acutal inject dosent hurt. just the after math

Go to your local pharmacy and get some 23g or 25g.

[forrest_and_trees]

Originally I tried a 25g/1.5 needle however, when I brought them to my doctor's office to show me how to do the injection, they said it was too small. It took forever to draw the Cyp since it's oil based; the viscosity is like maple syrup. I checked all my local sources, but the best I cold find were the 25g/1.5 so I went on line and ended up ordering some 21g/1 from Amazon.com and they work good. Ironically, it turns out the place I got them from was a pet supplier. I suppose doesn't really matter since they still work fine. As for how long it took. I was on a combo of daily 5mg tubes of 1% gel and biweekly injections of 200mg. I recently dropped the gel altogether and switched to 200mg per week. The first week or so I felt crappy too. Aches and pains, night sweats, hot flashes, etc., but by the third injection I began feeling fine again. I never got much of a "rush" off of the gel so I'd say now that i"m up to speed with the injections, they're are about equal with with the gel; maybe a little better. I also started on DHEA about the 3rd week into the injections without gel and originally thought that's why I was feeling better, now you've got me wondering if it just took that long for the cyp to pick up the slack from the gel. The standard dosage for the DHEA is 1- 25mg tab a day, I've taken 2 a couple times and it almost seems as if I have a little more boost in energy.

[Epic Ed]

A 25 ga needle is not too small. It's only too small if you're running a doctors office and trying to rotate patients in and out of rooms every 15 minutes.

Most of us who self-administer draw with a larger gauge needle (18 ga) and inject with a smaller one -- 23ga - 25ga is typical, though several use small than that. The benefit in the short term is less pain at the injection site if you inject slowly, and the long term benefit is less scar tissue.

[forrest_and_trees]

Where do you get an 18gauge needle from? I had a hard enough time finding the 21gauge. When you say you draw with one and inject with the other, do you replace the 18 gauge every time or reuse it and discard the 25?

[xpunksurferx]

the 21 works fine in the quads, I am about a week out and I feel the cyp picking up. I had one of my best pumps ever today from my workout and I can't stop bothering my gf . I lowered the dose to my perscribed 50mg bi weekly injects so hopefully I don't get a drop off. I would like to be on 200mg pw. I am also taking Dhea 200mg every 3 days, I was low on my tests for that as well.

[talstar]

You should do bi-weekly injections too. It will help.

I know nothing about gels. Does anyone here have an idea what test level someone will have when on the 10g gel?

I was on 10g of gel last year and my total test level was 236. It was 126 when taking nothing. I am taking 200mg cyp every 6 days now and will be getting my BW results(from 1 month ago) tomorrow and will post results.

[Vettester]

the 21 works fine in the quads, I am about a week out and I feel the cyp picking up. I had one of my best pumps ever today from my workout and I can't stop bothering my gf . I lowered the dose to my perscribed 50mg bi weekly injects so hopefully I don't get a drop off. I would like to be on 200mg pw. I am also taking Dhea 200mg every 3 days, I was low on my tests for that as well.

21g for the quads? Well to each their own.

[Vettester]

Where do you get an 18gauge needle from? I had a hard enough time finding the 21gauge. When you say you draw with one and inject with the other, do you replace the 18 gauge every time or reuse it and discard the 25?

Everyone has 18g. You can even get them from AR-R at the top of the page. Don't ever reuse the needles, never.

[forrest_and_trees]

21g for the quads? Well to each their own.

What's wrong with 21 gauge in the quads? That's what I use and it seems to work just fine.

[Vettester]

What's wrong with 21 gauge in the quads? That's what I use and it seems to work just fine.

If you like it, great. I'm into the least amount of pain thing myself. 25g would do much better, but that's just my opinion. I think you're fine with 21g because you're needing something to draw with. Try a 18g to draw and then switch it out with a 25g needle ... You'll see what I mean.

[forrest_and_trees]

As far as pain goes, I'm fine with the 21g, it doesn't seem to bother me at all. if that's the only problem then I guess I'm OK. I did notice one thing different when I injected yesterday. Usually there is no blood after I inject however, this last time it flowed pretty freely to the point that it ran down my leg before I could catch it with a swab. I placed the bandage over it and it got pretty messy so I removed the bandage to clean the area and put a new on one and the bleeding had already stopped with in 30 seconds. Then the today I noticed a bruise in the area of the injection. That hasn't happened before. Is that anything to be concerned about? it doesn't hurt or anything.

[xpunksurferx]

another good day today guys, concerned though I am up about 8lbs in weight in the last week. Pretty sure its water. Workouts have been great. I switched routines to p90x.

Joint pain has gone away and water retention, bacne, prob means e2 may have risen a tad too much. maybe I should step up the adex back to .5ed for a week? I missed a dose and went 2 off of it the other day

[durak]

shots working out for you now?

[xpunksurferx]

They are working a lot better now that I have been bumped to 200mg, I am still not as high as I would want to be but hell it is a 100% improvement, and I am gaining muscle like no one's business, I don't think my doc will bump me unless my numbers are less than I feel they are.

I feel the shots are more anabolic and less androgenic then the shots

[sierrahiker]

I was on Androgel for 9 months and initially felt fantastic on it. MUCH better than I do now with shots. I went from 317 to 800 and then up to 1400 on 10 grams of Androgel. So I was one of the lucky ones where Androgel really worked for me... but not for longer than 9 months.

[Vettester]

I was on Androgel for 9 months and initially felt fantastic on it. MUCH better than I do now with shots. I went from 317 to 800 and then up to 1400 on 10 grams of Androgel. So I was one of the lucky ones where Androgel really worked for me... but not for longer than 9 months.

I know a Endo in Fontana that can help