advice for beginner please

[jeepfreak]

I have played around with seroids a few times in the past, but it has been several years ago. I recently purchased some tren (finaplex) from a buddy of mine who has been dealing with this stuff for years. He seems to know alot about the stuff. He told me tren is very good but he cant take it because it raises his blood pressure too much and gives him real bad headaches. well, ive only injected it one time so far (3 days ago) and im due for another injection but im nervous because ive had a dull headache for 2 days now ! im going to the gym today and will have one of the trainers check my bp, but im still nervous, even if my bp is good. as of now im only taking the tren but ive got some prop on the way. should i just cut my losses and stop taking the tren ? anyone here have a similar story or advice ? also any opinions on taking prop by itself if i decide not to take the tren anymore ? im just wanting a little boost in the weight room, not looking to get super bulky at all....

[gixxerboy1]

tren is one of the strongest compounds out there. You should not be running alone and you probably dont need to use something that strong. I would stop injecting it now.

What are your stats?

[fukngruvn]

From what you've said, it seems you are not informed at all about steroids. Tren should not be taken on its own, and definitely not in a beginners cycle. Best to stop immediately before you injure yourself. BP is the least of your worries right now.

[songdog]

Running tren alone well say good bye sex life.Quit now bro.Tren isnt like all the others its the strongest injectable there is.Not for beginners.A lil bit goes a long way.But NEVER NERVER without TEST.Not to mention its nice to have caber on hand for progesterone problems.Leaky tits cant bust a nut.Research is a good thing bro.Dont trust just the word of a friend.

[jasc]

also any opinions on taking prop by itself if i decide not to take the tren anymore ? im just wanting a little boost in the weight room, not looking to get super bulky at all....

Test by itself is hands-down the most recommended cycle on here for beginners (prop, eth, or cyp)
You may want to read up on AI's and SERM's and have those on hand before you start any cycle.
And make sure to have a propper PCT in line before you begin

[jeepfreak]

good info, thanks. I think I was going to stop anyway. My damn head hurts...... just got off the phone with my friend and he said I could give the tren back and trade it for some prop if I wanted.....I think Im gonna do that but Im gonna need to research it a bit more first. He said he takes it by itself and I work with a guy that takes prop by itself also. They both look great and say they have no probs with anything (sex life) if anything its much stronger now. whats you guys opinion on that ?

*opinion on prop, not the sex life*

[gixxerboy1]

dude you need to learn more about drugs your injecting into your body. Yes more testosterone is going to give you more of a sex drive. But do you know what to do if your estrogen gets high and what to take. what about what to do when you stop the prop? You bodies natural test production will have stopped completely. Do you know how to restart it?
Steroids can mess you up. You need to not do anything right now and educate yourself more.

[jeepfreak]

I'm thinking you're right. Stats are 5'9 185...I have always worked out, I'm stocky as it is but I want more and I need to lean out a bit. I know my diet had a lot to do with that though

[jeepfreak]

I understand I need to educate myself first, that's why I joined this forum....I need help from people that know. I know you can take an estrogen blocker if needed. How do you know though ? Also, no I don't know what to do when I'm done with the prop. I do understand my body will see the elevated test levels and shut down its own test production so that is another question, what do you do when you are done ? Sorry for the dumb questions but if you don't ask questions you can't learn....any help you guys could give me would be awesome. Thanks in advance.

[jeepfreak]

Ok, I'm not up on the lingo.....what's pct ? Is all this crap I have to take to fight off the side effects something else I need to get from my "dealer" or what.....sure is a lot of sh*t, almost seems not worth it.....it better work....

[gixxerboy1]

Ok, I'm not up on the lingo.....what's pct ? Is all this crap I have to take to fight off the side effects something else I need to get from my "dealer" or what.....sure is a lot of sh*t, almost seems not worth it.....it better work....

start reading the educational and sticky threads up top. all this is already answered and layed out. Just take the time and read. Glad to see your doing research now just hold off on injecting

[jeepfreak]

start reading the educational and sticky threads up top. all this is already answered and layed out. Just take the time and read. Glad to see your doing research now just hold off on injecting

Oh yeah, I've been doing my homework all night....I didn't realize how much actually went in to this, kind of scary that I did it a few times when I was 20-21 years old and didn't know anything about it...when I did it back then I didn't have any side effects during or after the cycle, didn't even know there was such thing as PCT....crazy ! Thanks again guys for helping me out, may have just saved me some heartache down the road.....

[songdog]

Well Bro you will be glad you came here beacuse your friends aint telling you squat.1st when you inject test you shut your own nat production of test down.So after your cycle you need to start it back up.That is wat the pct is for.Beacuse if you dont get your system back on track.Your sex drive will be gone.You will loose your gains.Basically you feel like crap.There is a lot to learn.But its not hard but I will tell you up front if you ignore wat I am telling you.And skip pct not have a AI on hand when you need it.You will regrett it.Good luck.

[jeepfreak]

thanks again guys, im just excited to get started, i just need to get a good pct cycle lined up

[jasc]

To give you a good ref point here are the basics of what you could do..

Test 350 - 500mg/week (standard dosing range... beginners typically go lower in the range, advanced go higher or more, but you should be fine within those limits)
-- 8-12 weeks average, some people do more, personally I think 8 weeks is kind of short
Armidex or Aromasin , most common AI choices for preventing gyno, everyone has their own preference on which is better, not all people need this but its good to have on hand in case
-- Armidex .5mg every other day during the course of the cycle
-- Not sure on Aromasin doses, never used it
HCG 500iu/week is pretty standard, take during cycle to keep your body from shutting down natural test production, not completely necessary but a real good idea if you can find some

PCT: Started once you come off cycle, aids the body in starting test production/ and returning back to normal
4 weeks is pretty standard for a mild cycle, some people prefer 6

Nolvadex 40/20/20/20
Clomid 100/50/50/50
daily doses per week in mg

After a lot of reading and talking to people, those are the basics. Not everyone will agree with everything or have their own ideas, but its a good starting point and then just do some more research and cater it to meet your needs. But that's a good starting point
The guys on here helped me a lot so I figured I'll pass it on...

[jeepfreak]

So if I already have the prop, I'm still looking at several hundred dollars in other meds to go along with it ? Anybody have any pointers on where to get this stuff for the best price ?

[jasc]

The research chem company at the top of this site seems to be a favorite around here.. I have personally dealt with them a few times and was very happy with em. Due to board rules not sure if I can mention their site address or prices, but they have just about everything you would need to "research"

[jeepfreak]

ok, i think im starting to catch on.....I understand the need for nolvadex and clomide for PCT, but could you not just take the nolvadex during cycle also instead of buying Armadex and aromasin ? dont get me wrong, i want to do this right but im not rich either.....since nolvadex is helping with the estrogen levels after cycle, could it not do the same during cycle ? also, is it just completely out of the question to just take the prop alone, but have nolvadex on hand, then if no problems occur during the cycle, start PCT with nolvadex and clomide ? sorry for the questions but I really want to get this right before starting, cant be mad at me about that. Also, is gyno common on such a mild cycle or is it possible to take one cycle of prop with no problems ? I know a few guys that have taken prop several times and they tell me they have never had issues, but i guess thats not something you go around talking about either.....

also, all PCT items i find are liquids, is that common ? I guess i just had it in my mind they were tabs....

[jasc]

Armidex prevents the conversion of androgens in to estrogen
Aromasin I am not very familiar with, Due to the price I use Armidex instead
Nolvadex blocks estrogen from estrogen receptors

I Believe you wouldn't want to use Nolvadex because that wouldn't stop the conversion of androgens to estrogen, it would just stop the estrogen from being utilized. I don't want to give you the wrong info so I won't go past there, but everything you read will tell you to use an AI on cycle, not a SERM

An AI (Armidex or Aromasin) is not mandatory to take while cycling. Not everyone uses one and some people have no estrogen problems without it. You could always start your cycle without it and IF you start to show signs you can reverse them with Nolvadex if used right away. I take it because I am always concerned with gyno, more or less a precaution.
So yes you could run prop alone... and then do a standard PCT afterwards

The reason all of the PCT items are liquid is because they are "research chems" If you were to get these items from a pharmacy they'd most likely all be in pill form

[dec11]

The research chem company at the top of this site seems to be a favorite around here.. I have personally dealt with them a few times and was very happy with em. Due to board rules not sure if I can mention their site address or prices, but they have just about everything you would need to "research"

you can name them but cant post prices

[jeepfreak]

ok, so right now im looking at running prop alone (with nolva on hand) and then standard PCT of nolva and clomide afterwards

i just have one more question before i call it a night.....its a very dumb one but i cant help it, out of all the reading ive done i havent seen it mentioned.
everyone talks about the doseage of their injections in mg's........ive never seen a syrenge that wasnt measured in cc's.......what am i missing ?

[jasc]

The test will be dosed in mg per ml, mg/ml
1 cc = 1 ml
So you'll just have to calculate based on your test

[jeepfreak]

Ok I have my prop, nolva and clomide......I'm ready to go, just one last question beforehand to make sure I got it all lined out.....how long after last injection of prop should I start pct and what doses of each.....thanks guys for the help. I know you guys probably don't care but ill keep you posted on my results.....

[gixxerboy1]

3 days
40/40/20/20 nolva
100/100/50/50 clomid

[AstheticKing]

no test base?...u dont have to include clomid imho id run tamoxifen(nolva) for a week at 20....or find test and throw ur tren in the garbage cuz ur just gonna hurt urself

[jeepfreak]

no test base?...u dont have to include clomid imho id run tamoxifen(nolva) for a week at 20....or find test and throw ur tren in the garbage cuz ur just gonna hurt urself

Yeah, I've got prop now, tren is no longer in the picture. After some research and good info on here I've decided tren is not for me.....that pct schedule is for prop.....

[jeepfreak]

Ok, its been a while and I still haven't started my cycle. After a lot of research I've decided to go ahead and purchase an AI to run during my cycle. I went with letro. What dose should I run with the letro during cycle ? I'll run prop 8-10 weeks, 400mg per week, injecting eod....3 days after cycle I will start pct with nolva and clomide at the suggested doses above. Sound good ? Also would like opinions on letro compared to other AI's....I haven't purchased the letro yet so its not too late to change to a different one....thanks for all the help guys, I really appreciate it.....

[The Bear 79]

Letro is prty potent / harsh stuff as far as AI's go bro. Its good 2 hav on hand in case of an extreme gyno emergency, but its not commonly used on cycle, not sayin u cant use it as an on cycle inhibitor, many hav, but, cant u get ur hands on some rim?

[jeepfreak]

I can try yeah, I was just browsing arr, if they have it, ill get it. Also, will an AI help prevent bloating also ?

[The Bear 79]

I know Letro will drain u & rim will also, 2 a lesser degree. I dont hav any experience with any others. Keep in mind, u NEED some estro or ur gains (amongst other thing) will suffer.

[gixxerboy1]

i would use aromasin not letro

[jeepfreak]

Ok, will do...thanks again. I think I'm finally ready to give this a shot, no pun intended. I've been putting it off long enough, decided to just work out a little more without it first and also try to drop a little more body fat. I'll order the aromasin and try to get started early next week, just depends on how long the shipping takes. Also, what is the correct dosage for the aromasin ?

[jeepfreak]

looking around on the arr site......is liquid stane the same as aromasin ? if you search aromasin on the AI section liquid stane is the only one that comes up. just want to make sure before i buy.....trying to find a good AI. also, what about liquidex ? looks like it does the same thing but for half the price....is liquidex a commonly used AI ?

[gixxerboy1]

stane is aromasin

[jeepfreak]

What's your opinion on liquidex ? Is it ok to use instead of stane for money saving purposes ?

[dec11]

What's your opinion on liquidex ? Is it ok to use instead of stane for money saving purposes ?

yep its fine, chance of a estro rebound upon discontinuing though. im dropping my adex dosage down atm was doing .5mg eod during cycle, have cut down to .25mg eod and will next week go to .25 e3d and then go off it as im down to my 150mg trt, so far so good. if when you come off adex and get a rebound use nolva to counter gyno flare

[Granovich]

Running tren alone well say good bye sex life.Quit now bro.Tren isnt like all the others its the strongest injectable there is.Not for beginners.A lil bit goes a long way.But NEVER NERVER without TEST.Not to mention its nice to have caber on hand for progesterone problems.Leaky tits cant bust a nut.Research is a good thing bro.Dont trust just the word of a friend.

you are right , i ran tren by it self as first cycle and im only 23. it took a year to get my erections and normal test back. thats after loads of nolvadex clomid hcg. all natural booster. 10's of visits to doctors !!!
not worth it at all !!!!!!!!!!! all that time and money

[jeepfreak]

yep its fine, chance of a estro rebound upon discontinuing though. im dropping my adex dosage down atm was doing .5mg eod during cycle, have cut down to .25mg eod and will next week go to .25 e3d and then go off it as im down to my 150mg trt, so far so good. if when you come off adex and get a rebound use nolva to counter gyno flare

Chance of estrogen rebound with just liquidex or with any AI ? Also, when I stop taking the adex ill be done with cycle and starting pct including nolva anyway.....or could the rebound occur even after pct ?

[jeepfreak]

yep its fine, chance of a estro rebound upon discontinuing though. im dropping my adex dosage down atm was doing .5mg eod during cycle, have cut down to .25mg eod and will next week go to .25 e3d and then go off it as im down to my 150mg trt, so far so good. if when you come off adex and get a rebound use nolva to counter gyno flare

so just to be clear, .5mg eod is what i should run during cycle. should I start lowering the dose towards the end like you or just go .5 ? either way, i cant wait to get started, just a little nervous about the possible pain from pinning...ive read alot of horror stories on here about arms and legs swelling up twice the normal size and people who cant walk for 2 days ! but im still gonna try, worth the risk imo....i hope