There are still GREATclinics out there guys!

[SpobodyNecial]

Why is it that we are so often led to accept the rhetoric pandered by those in the medical field, or even hiding beneath the guise of medical expertise, that leads us to hand over our wallets or accept sub-standard treatment?

"You can't put a price on your health."

No? Last time I looked at my credit card statement the price was VERY real.

Here is my simple advice:

If your clinic is unwilling to meet your requirements for therapy? Or if your clinic charges you bizarre consultation, setup, registration, or recurring testing fees? Or if your clinic won't provide you with a medication list? Or price lists for that medication?

FIND. A. NEW. CLINIC.

The truth is that they are MORE than willing to fight over your HIGHLY lucrative business. They rake in enormous profits via the VOLUME of pharmaceutical sales. Any other charges, no matter the name, are a commission going into the salesman's pocket. As crappy as it sounds, even the prices themselves can fluctuate. They will take you for as much as they can.

This is the sad reality of the situation my friends. I wish it were otherwise.

However, you sure as HELL do NOT have to sit there and take it. This business is CUSTOMER DRIVEN. Use this to your advantage!!! Be DISCERNING in your pursuit of therapy!

Start by shopping around. Request contact from as many clinics as you can dig up. Make it clear that you are interested in TRT therapy (or that you are interested in TRANSFERRING to their clinic, if that is the case).

Be BOLD. Request a list of their commonly prescribed medication. Request prices. THEY DON'T HAVE ANY REASON TO WITHHOLD THIS INFORMATION UNLESS THEY ARE TRYING TO SCAM YOU.

If you get "well it all depends on what the doctor prescribes you," then make it clear that you are unwilling to proceed without some indication of the costs you can expect.

Make it clear that the primary factor in your decision for choosing a clinic is the willingness of the clinic to meet your demands for therapy, followed closely by the prices of said therapy.

Consider:

"One of your competitors agreed that a 400mg/week dose of testosterone would provide me the the treatment I require. If you are unwilling to meet this level of treatment then I will have to pursue therapy with them instead."

Or:

"I have found that I also respond positively to an additional dosage of 50mg/day of oxandrolone. Would your physician be willing to prescribe this level of therapy, and if so, what would I expect to pay?"

GOOD CLINICS ARE OUT THERE MY FRIENDS - YOU JUST HAVE TO FIND THEM.

You can find ALL the following:

Flexible, patient directed therapy (Test, Deca, Anavar, Winstrol, Nolvadex, Clomid, Armidex, etc, etc, etc - in dosages YOU think will help you).

No setup fees. No consultation fees. Reasonable shipping costs.

Pricing information for everything, up front.

No high pressure sales tactics. No requirements to take expensive vitamins or other nonsense.

So if you are unhappy with your current therapy, whatever the reason, THEN GO FIND SOMETHING BETTER! Because these guys are out there, and they will make your transfer as simple and painless as possible!

TWO FINAL THINGS:

FIRST: Ask around. Maybe you don't know how to do a google search. Maybe you don't know what a telephone book is. Well just about EVERYONE on this forum is here because they want to SHARE information related to their AAS use. People come here to learn, to teach, and to talk. Find someone who seems happy with their therapy. Send them a message. Be friendly. Be honest. Explain your situation. Begin a dialogue. See if they might recommend a clinic for you.

SECOND: This one is important. MIND YOUR LANGUAGE. Nobody wants their TRT clinic to face any trouble because of the appearance of impropriety on the part of an ignorant patient. We are receiving THERAPY here friends. Treat it with the respect it deserves. This doesn't mean you can't be smart, diligent, and discerning in your pursuit of a good clinic, but don't use language that implies improper business practices or any sort of illegality. That has no place in TRT therapy. If you phrase your requests, expectations, and interests in a thoughtful, considerate manner it will make EVERYONE more willing to deal with you, from your fellow forum members on up to clinic personnel.

Now get out there and find a clinic!

[gixxerboy1]

and that is why clinics are being shut down. They arent providing a medical service. They are steroid dealers try a loophole.

[steroid.com 1]

and that is why clinics are being shut down. They arent providing a medical service. They are steroid dealers try a loophole.

Exactly!

It's one thing to treat legitimate hormonal imbalances with restorative medical and pharmacological protocols and another to just deal steroids to abusers.

[APIs]

OP's post sounded like a sales pitch. Was waiting for the clinic to be named...

[EASTCOASTKID]

LOL I was reading through it to and thinking and the name of the clinic is?????
:-)

[SlimmerMe]

Yep...just waiting for the "rest" of the story.....

[steroid.com 1]

LOL that was only his 3rd post!

[OutLaw8.5]

EVen worse when I looked yesterday it showed that being his first and only post :0P

[JohnnyVegas]

The OP is probably livid that PMs aren't streaming in because of his low post count. Let's see if there is the usual race to 50 posts.

Other than that...good info, I guess?

[SpobodyNecial]

Here are some examples of bullshit I have heard in my various dealings:

"Well we only prescribe 200mg/week because that is just all the test that the body can hold."

"Let me be honest with you, EVERY clinic charges a new patient fee. Maybe they mix it in with their medication costs, but believe me, it is there."

"Well, the thing is, you really don't EVER need to go off cycle. I usually only take off maybe one or two weeks a year, if I bother to at all, and I feel great."

"You see, these are some powerful medications, and they can be a heavy load on your body, so the doctor really insists that you also inject the vitamin complex if you are going to do any sort of test therapy."

"Let's be straight with each other. You wanna get ripped, right? Well let me tell you a little known secret: the topical gels are actually more powerful than the shots. They go STRAIGHT to the muscle and you can FEEL it, you know?"

"Well it doesn't matter what that other clinic thinks you should take, our focus is on making you feel GREAT. You can save yourself that extra $125 for that second bottle of test, because you're not gonna need it. Our test is just THAT good."

"I would like to help you bro, really, I would. But there just isn't any Anavar out there right now. Seriously, there is just NONE. Like zero, in the entire country."

"We just have a GREAT response to this serum, let me tell you. You like feeling pumped right? Well the MIC will get you seriously pumped man. What is it? Well, it's a special compound... It has the B5, B6, hell, ALL the Bs you could ever want. And, like I said, we have a GREAT response, patients LOVE it."

"Well I just think you should order NOW. You never know when there might be problems at the pharmacy, you know? I mean, they gotta MAKE this stuff. You don't want to RUN OUT, do you? So why don't you just put in your order now, that way you're all set?"

"You know what? **** it. I like you, man. I like your style. So here's the deal: I know I said the fee was $200 for registration. But I'm gonna hook you up. If you put in an order, like right now, I'll knock it down to $150. I mean, I'm PAYING this out of pocket for you bro. That's how cool we are here."

[jamotech]

Here are some examples of bullshit I have heard in my various dealings:

"Well we only prescribe 200mg/week because that is just all the test that the body can hold."

"Let me be honest with you, EVERY clinic charges a new patient fee. Maybe they mix it in with their medication costs, but believe me, it is there."

"Well, the thing is, you really don't EVER need to go off cycle. I usually only take off maybe one or two weeks a year, if I bother to at all, and I feel great."

"You see, these are some powerful medications, and they can be a heavy load on your body, so the doctor really insists that you also inject the vitamin complex if you are going to do any sort of test therapy."

"Let's be straight with each other. You wanna get ripped, right? Well let me tell you a little known secret: the topical gels are actually more powerful than the shots. They go STRAIGHT to the muscle and you can FEEL it, you know?"

"Well it doesn't matter what that other clinic thinks you should take, our focus is on making you feel GREAT. You can save yourself that extra $125 for that second bottle of test, because you're not gonna need it. Our test is just THAT good."

"I would like to help you bro, really, I would. But there just isn't any Anavar out there right now. Seriously, there is just NONE. Like zero, in the entire country."

"We just have a GREAT response to this serum, let me tell you. You like feeling pumped right? Well the MIC will get you seriously pumped man. What is it? Well, it's a special compound... It has the B5, B6, hell, ALL the Bs you could ever want. And, like I said, we have a GREAT response, patients LOVE it."

"Well I just think you should order NOW. You never know when there might be problems at the pharmacy, you know? I mean, they gotta MAKE this stuff. You don't want to RUN OUT, do you? So why don't you just put in your order now, that way you're all set?"

"You know what? **** it. I like you, man. I like your style. So here's the deal: I know I said the fee was $200 for registration. But I'm gonna hook you up. If you put in an order, like right now, I'll knock it down to $150. I mean, I'm PAYING this out of pocket for you bro. That's how cool we are here."

Dam, why is everyone giving you so much bullshit?

[streeter]

I really don't know if the crap your getting is deserved or not, I will just say most of the vets here on this board already are very versed in HRT/TRT Clinics and their practices. But your post may be helpful for some of the noobies on here so I will welcome you to the board. I think many of the vets including myself get very cautious of new members all of a sudden getting very talkative in their first couple posts.

I suppose it's a right of passage on here if your new your going to be scrutinised at every angle for awhile but once your accepted your family. You will know when your accepted when they start throwing your momma jokes and such at your ass LOL. Good Luck and welcome to the board.....So far

[SpobodyNecial]

I'm not giving out my clinic. My apologies if that seems like my intention. That's not the point. I think having the right perspective for dealing with the games that many clinics play, and an understanding of how to effectively stand your ground in those games, is far more important than just giving out some random name.

If you really are just getting good old fashioned TRT, then that's great. More power to you. I wish I could tell you that there was no need to play games in the first place, but that just isn't the truth of the matter. Unless you have the good fortune to find a local endocrinologist who will prescribe you the therapy you need, then you kind of have no choice but to play TRT clinic games.

Additionally, many of us are interested in dosages that are outside the usual realm of what would typically be prescribed by your standard endo. I know this is the case. I see posts about it on this very forum. I am one of these individuals.

I think the most powerful tool someone can possibly wield is just the willingness to shop around. There isn't really a need to get a recommendation (unless, as I mockingly pointed out, you don't know how to use google).

My advice was to just to do a google search and request info from as many clinics as you are willing, and patient enough, to talk to. We all probably have the blood work, and physical, that was necessary for setting up any initial therapy. All you gotta do is fax it on in to a new clinic and wait and see what they have to say.

Does that sound like a sales pitch? Asking people to hit up as many clinics as possible? Asking people to do there homework, get quotes, and stand strong against high pressure tactics? Giving advice on how to phrase replies to make it clear you are shopping around while also leveraging their inclination for competition to your best advantage?

Yes, you're right, I am a brand new member. But before you accuse me of pitching some specific clinic, how about ONE person, just ONE person go ahead and stand up and say I gave them a recommendation.

That's not going to happen, because I'm not giving recommendations.

I saw several posts where people were unhappy with their therapy, or complaining about new stringent requirements for face-to-face meetings, or saying prices were extreme. Well I've been neck deep in that game, seeing first hand how truly dirty and underhanded some clinics can be.

I just wanted to help people out with some advice, based on my own journey, because I thought some people might benefit from it.

[JD250]

You know where you are right? Not sure where you're coming from but you're preaching to the chior here and a tad bit patronizing too.

[steroid.com 1]

You know where you are right? Not sure where you're coming from but you're preaching to the chior here and a tad bit patronizing too.

If his intentions are sincere,he's only trying to help but in an ignorant way. I think his posts are really for the newbies or guys researching TRT here not realizing of course most of us are well aware of his points.

It does come across a bit patronizing JD...

[JohnnyVegas]

It isn't because I am a "vet", it is because I do marketing for a living, and the post was pure ad speak. The OP knows of a place that offers:

-----------------
You can find ALL the following:

Flexible, patient directed therapy (Test , Deca , Anavar , Winstrol , Nolvadex , Clomid , Armidex, etc, etc, etc - in dosages YOU think will help you).

No setup fees. No consultation fees. Reasonable shipping costs.

Pricing information for everything, up front.

No high pressure sales tactics. No requirements to take expensive vitamins or other nonsense.

So if you are unhappy with your current therapy, whatever the reason, THEN GO FIND SOMETHING BETTER! Because these guys are out there, and they will make your transfer as simple and painless as possible!
-----------------

All that was missing was "order today and get 20% off your first order."

If I wrote that, it would be because I was expecting PMs asking how to contact this frickin' awesome clinic. Just like all the first time posters that type a long message about how they just found a new source that has pharm grade HGH (not that China crap) and it is cheap, shows up overnight, he has already gained ten pounds, and it comes with a free hot chick to inject it for you...but he isn't going to say who the source is. Total bait.

But, I am not psychic and do not know anyone's true intensions. I simply made it clear that people should be cautious.

[steroid.com 1]

It isn't because I am a "vet", it is because I do marketing for a living, and the post was pure ad speak. The OP knows of a place that offers:

-----------------
You can find ALL the following:

Flexible, patient directed therapy (Test , Deca , Anavar , Winstrol , Nolvadex , Clomid , Armidex, etc, etc, etc - in dosages YOU think will help you).

No setup fees. No consultation fees. Reasonable shipping costs.

Pricing information for everything, up front.

No high pressure sales tactics. No requirements to take expensive vitamins or other nonsense.

So if you are unhappy with your current therapy, whatever the reason, THEN GO FIND SOMETHING BETTER! Because these guys are out there, and they will make your transfer as simple and painless as possible!-----------------

All that was missing was "order today and get 20% off your first order."

If I wrote that, it would be because I was expecting PMs asking how to contact this frickin' awesome clinic. Just like all the first time posters that type a long message about how they just found a new source that has pharm grade HGH (not that China crap) and it is cheap, shows up overnight, he has already gained ten pounds, and it comes with a free hot chick to inject it for you...but he isn't going to say who the source is. Total bait.

But, I am not psychic and do not know anyone's true intensions. I simply made it clear that people should be cautious.

When he posted the 2nd time with all the bold above I said to myself "who writes like this here...". I could be wrong, and maybe I am, but I tend to agree with Johnny.

Time will tell...

[SlimmerMe]

simply because it came across like an Infomercial....

hopefully we will ALL stand corrected.....so OP keep posting should you so desire....

[SpobodyNecial]

Again, my apologies if I come across as patronizing. My intention is obviously not to provide info for the "vets," as I am sure you have your methodology locked down. But from even a casual look down the forum I see a bunch of people who are unhappy, or talking about clinics scamming them, or being under dosed, etc.

I'm not sure why my rhetoric comes across as a sales pitch either. Considering nobody has stepped up to say that I am pushing my clinic on them, by request or not, I think it is safe to assume that I am not doing so. Feel free to continue your skeptcism though, it's not like it hurts me. I have nothing to gain or lose by sharing my opinion here. Frankly, I can't imagine a more proper place for me to do so.

I didn't make the clinic scene the way it is, but I'll be damned if I get scammed by them again. I find it strange that people aren't actively discussing the usual ploys employed by the shadier clinics, the runarounds, the gouging. I see it mentioned here and there, but nobody seems to be offering advice on how to deal with it other than the generic "do your research," which, while certainly true, is nonetheless not particularly helpful in this regard.

If anyone is interested in continuing this discussion in a reasonable manner I am still game. I listed a bunch of the BS I typically get fed when I talk to clinics. In my first posted I listed the things that I would expect from any clinic that I would consider doing business with. Neither of those things seems like ideas that deserve particular scrutiny, whether posted by some longtime veteran or a newb like myself. But scrutinize away if it makes you feel better. I am happy to explain myself.

Maybe I should start a new post with a more gentle approach. I was thinking of listing things that I would generally expect from any TRT clinic that I might consider doing business with. Conversely, it might also be worth listing "deal breakers" that a clinic might pull that would make me consider looking into their competitors.

Perhaps then I can drop the stigma this post seems to have garnered and instead focus on contributing something that might be better received. Hopefully you will be inclined to contribute, as I am sure my own set of expectations is far from complete.

---

As a side note, I have seen a particular argument that I am curious about. I don't intend to argue the point, I am simply hoping someone can lend me some insight into better understanding it:

"I wish all shady clinics would get shut down so that they wouldn't run the risk of ruining the service for those that really need it."

Despite the fact that a clear cut line defining "the people who really need it" is probably impossible to determine, this still strikes me as a strange argument. I readily admit that I am not particularly familiar with the finer perspectives and overarching sentiments on this website, but the simple fact that we ARE on a website devoted to steroid use makes me question this particular frame of mind. I can't help wondering if a significant proportion of individuals who discuss TRT in this forum are people specifically interested in the anabolic properties, regardless of its potential use as a therapy. I mean no disrespect to those that consider themselves "legitimate users," I am just curious.

[JohnnyVegas]

As a side note, I have seen a particular argument that I am curious about. I don't intend to argue the point, I am simply hoping someone can lend me some insight into better understanding it:

"I wish all shady clinics would get shut down so that they wouldn't run the risk of ruining the service for those that really need it."

Despite the fact that a clear cut line defining "the people who really need it" is probably impossible to determine, this still strikes me as a strange argument. I readily admit that I am not particularly familiar with the finer perspectives and overarching sentiments on this website, but the simple fact that we ARE on a website devoted to steroid use makes me question this particular frame of mind. I can't help wondering if a significant proportion of individuals who discuss TRT in this forum are people specifically interested in the anabolic properties, regardless of its potential use as a therapy. I mean no disrespect to those that consider themselves "legitimate users," I am just curious.

If memory serves, that "I wish all shady clinics would get shut down..." comment was mine. If not, it sounds like something I would say.

Yes, this is a forum devoted to steroids, but my TRT is completely unrelated to steroid use, and it is legitimate. I am not a guy that bellyaches to his doctor about non-specific symptoms like being tired, or unfocussed, or sad. I don't lie to my doctor about erections or sex drive (mine was really gone). I am not like the idiots that start threads asking how to cheat, stay up all night or drink a bunch of alcohol to cheat the blood work so they can get a legal scrip for Test. My life was miserable, and I went to the doctor even though I didn't think TRT would work.

I don't know why you think people here are only interested in the anabolic properties of TRT. I can get all the steroids I want from a friend for less money. But that isn't what I want. I want a doctor treating me with dependable, pharm-grade drugs so that I don't ever going back to feeling like crap. Debilitating muscle cramps that my wife was tired of sticking her elbows into every night for years. Having a wife that was ten years younger than me and not being interested in sex. Headaches. Chronic soreness and fatigue. Feeling like an 80 year old man because I had the Test levels of a 14 year old girl.

Maybe that is why I don't understand your posts. We have opposite views of what we want from TRT. It doesn't sound like you really need it, or you wouldn't wonder about "those that consider themselves legitimate users." Are you not an legitimate user? If not, then we do not see eye-to-eye.

Having said that, you seem like a good guy and I hope you stick around.

[JD250]

Well said JV, to the OP.... as far as this discussion about clinics.....education along with a little resolve will solve most of these problems altogether, if you cant afford a clinic then you still need an education and resolve to find a doctor and work with him, it's a pain in the ass but so are a lot of things in life.