HCG for PCT?

[Todd the truth]

I have been mapping out my first cycle for a few months now and I've posted a few threads on it.
Test cypinate, HCG, arimidex and clomid nolvadex pct. I have a friend telling me that nolva is not needed for PCT, clomid and daily doses of HCG are what he is recommending. Any of you guys know where he is coming from with this???

[stpete]

Let's keep it simple...
Lay out your cycle for us...This will include dosages of each compound in milligrams followed by how many weeks you plan on using each compound.
Then, PCT...What is your friend recommending? Daily, weekly? How many weeks are you going to run PCT? When are you going to start?
Let's start there....

[Todd the truth]

Test cypinate 200mg
Arimidex 0.5mg
HCG 250 units
Monday am / Thursday pm for all 3
12 week cycle

Weeks 13 and 14 just arimidex and HCG

Weeks 15, 16, 17, 18
Nolvadex 40/20/20/20
Clomid 100/50/50/50

[10nispro]

is that test c 200mg/week?

[Todd the truth]

200mg Monday am and Thursday pm

[stpete]

Test cypinate 200mg
Arimidex 0.5mg
HCG 250 units
Monday am / Thursday pm for all 3
12 week cycle

Weeks 13 and 14 just arimidex and HCG

Weeks 15, 16, 17, 18
Nolvadex 40/20/20/20
Clomid 100/50/50/50

PCT looks good but start it @ week 14. You can run the arm and HCG til PCT but don't run together. This is a highly debated subject, but i believe that HCG shouldn't be ran w/nolva and clomid. Just my .02

[MR10X]

Almost everything you hear or read will be anecdotal and therefore subject to no verification. Experiences with hCG while on TRT are posted. The use of hCG for PCT is only partly related to its use on TRT.

hCG while on TRT is used for two reasons. One reason is cosmetic. While on TRT it is not unusual and more often expected to have testicular atrophy. This is variable from individual to individual. The other reason is to act as a stimulus so the testicles do not shut down and therefore will be easier to initiate independent function after AAS cessation.

Desensitization is a potential problem with hCG. I do not think you will experience it with doses of 500IU or less 3X/week. Studies have used this dose for considerably long periods. In my patients when hCG was used while on AAS the dose was 1000IU every 3 days with one month on hCG followed by one month off hCG.

hCG for PCT involves additional concepts. This is the timing of hCG in relation to other medications for return of HPTA functionality. Under normal conditions the HPTA is a tightly coupled dynamic feedback loop. It is this coupling that has to be achieved after AAS cessation to return to normal. The analogy I use is the starting of a car by pushing it from behind. Alone the care will not start but with pushing the clutch can be popped and the car started.

After AAS cessation the secretion of LH is nil. It will not be able to initiate T production until a certain stimulus LH level is reached. Studies have shown that the time for this to occur can be lengthy. Thus the idea is to ‘push’ the testicles with hCG and get them started. Once T production is initiated the dependent variable is LH. If the hCG is withdrawn without adequate LH to couple with the testicles return of HPTA functionality will fail.

The increased production of LH is achieved by a dual action of clomiphene citrate and tamoxifen. Clomiphene is a mixed agonist/antagonist (SERM) at the estradiol receptor. Clomiphene will increase the secretion of LH by action at the hypothalamo-pituitary area. Clomiphene will cause an increase in LH and secondarily increases in T and estradiol. Estradiol has a negative feedback influence on the HPTA. Estradiol is 200X the inhibitory effect of T per molar basis. Normal serum levels are the following:

Testosterone: 3-10 ng/ml (10-35 nM/L)

Estradiol: 15-65 pg/ml (55-240 pmol/L)

Tamoxifen will counteract the effect of the estradiol. Once the hCG is withdrawn the LH, initiated by clomiphene and tamoxifen, will couple with the testicles and take over production of T by the testicles. The levels of LH to maintain and couple with the testicles are maintained by clomiphene and tamoxifen. Clomiphene is continued for 15 days while Tamoxifen is continued for 30 days.

In healthy adult men, circulating levels of testosterone have a distinct pattern, with increasing levels during sleep toward a maximum around the time of awakening and a decrease during the day. In PCT hCG is administered every other day. I suggest the same time each injection in an attempt to simulate this rhythm. This is purely empirical but I recommend hCG at bedtime (2200). Clomiphene is taken in divided doses of 50mg 2X/day.

– Michael Scally, M.D., author of Anabolic Steroids: A Question of Muscle

Related Articles
Why Use Both Clomid and Nolvadex Together for PCT?

TRT

[gixxerboy1]

PCT looks good but start it @ week 14. You can run the arm and HCG til PCT but don't run together. This is a highly debated subject, but i believe that HCG shouldn't be ran w/nolva and clomid. Just my .02

he was right on starting on week 15.
he is on cycle at week 12. take weeks 13 and 14 off. Thats 2 weeks then start week 15

[Todd the truth]

So stil not sure but it sounds like a safe bet to stop HCG week 14 and stick with clomid/nolva for PCT. Was gonna try and use the least amount of compounds to minimize sides?

Will I still need letro on hand in case of Gyno or am I safe taking arimidex.

There is a shampoo everyone talks about niziril or something like that, I this OTC and if so where? I plan on taking propecia on cycle and using minoxidil drops.

Thanks you guys have been a big help.

[MR10X]

You can still take the Adex in weeks 13 and 14 and the HCG,HCG has a 33 hr half life so it will take almost 3 days to get out of your system.Start the Clomid and Nolvadex about 2 weeks after your last test C shot.It really depends on when you take the last test C shot as to when to start the Nolvadex/Clomid.Adex has a 48 hr half life,the purpose of it is to keep you estrogen levels low from the test conversion.
The propecia will keep the DHT conversion down,but i never had a problem with DHT and hair loss while i was on test.DHT is not a bad thing if theres not a big amount.

[Todd the truth]

Thanks big help PCT is the important part and the confusing part

[MR10X]

Heres a good chart i found that tells you when to start the clomid and nolvadex:
The list below determines when you should start Clomid. Select from the list any steroids you've used in your cycle and whichever one has the latest starting point is the time to commence Clomid. For example, if Dianabol, Sustanon and Winstrol were cycled, the time for administering Clomid should be 3 weeks post cycle, as Sustanon remains active in the body for the longest period of time. Read the discussion here.

Steroid...............Time after last administration.........Length of clomid cycle

Anadrol50/Anapolan50........8 - 12 hours.............................3 weeks

Deca durabolan.................3 weeks...................................4 weeks

Dianabol...........................4 - 8 hours...............................3 weeks

Equipoise.........................17 - 21 days..............................3 weeks

Finajet/Trenbolone..............3 days....................................3 weeks

Primabolan depot................10 - 14 days............................2 weeks

Sustanon.............................3 weeks................................3 weeks

Testosterone Cypionate..........2 weeks................................3 weeks

Testosterone Enanthate/Testaviron...2 weeks.......................3 weeks

Testosterone Propionate.........3 days..................................3 weeks

Testosterone Suspension.........4 - 8 hours...........................2-3 weeks

Winstrol.................................8 - 12 hours........................2-3 weeks

continue the nolvadex for 2 weeks after the clomid.

[Todd the truth]

Thanks nice post way to back up your info.

[jimmyinkedup]

Your cycle and pct are laid out exceptionally well (post #3). IMO i wouldnt change anything at all. Best of luck to you.

[Todd the truth]

Cycle won't happen for another 6-8 weeks have to get diet dialed in, and have a home improvement project to get out of the way. Don't want any excess stress or deterants!