Advice on cycle: Sustanon + test enathate + tren enthate + winstrol oral

[Philly82]

Looking for any advice or opinions on my current cycle:

The Sustanon I have is 400 mg / ml
The test enanthate is 250 mg / ml
The Trenbolone enanthate is 200 mg / ml
50 mg of Winstrol ED - one pill in the morning and one at night.

I am injecting EOD and I am basically injecting a 2.2-2.4 CC shot which is one third of each of the above mentioned steroids. I am splitting the shot over 2 injection sites when I inject, i.e. half in each shoulder. I calculated this and it comes out to about 1700 mg / week total juice injected. I am also taking one arimidex EOD and it seems to work great except I have noticed a little soreness in my joints. i am guessing this is due to lack of estrogen, which would normally be protecting my joints.

I am currently on week 5 of my cycle and I have put on about 20-25 lbs thus far.

I am very pleased with my strength and size gains. To be a fairly solid 255 at 5'10 is pretty impressive to me.

I am wondering if anyone has an opinion on if this is too much or too little juice to be taking?

Also wondering if it effects the juice to be drawing out of 3 different vials with the same syringe / needle? Does tren coming into contact with test and sust cause a negative chemical reaction?

Finally I have grabbed some EQ now for my second cycle which will be for cutting since I don't fit into most of my clothes anymore and wondering if I can inject say 600 - 800 mg / week by itself as a cutter as I have no interest in adding any more size after this cycle.

Thanks for your advice.

[Philly82]

I guess I should have stated the question a little more clearly because I have over a hundred views and not one reply in a short time.

What I want to know :

Is 1700 mg / week over the course of say 6-8 weeks a logical dosage to be injecting if it is from the 3 types of juice I mentioned?

The stack: Sustanon (400mg/ml)
Test Enanthate (250mg/ml)
Trenbolone Enanthate (200mg/ml)
Winstrol tablets 2 * 25mg / day.

Stats:
Age: 29
Height: 5'10
Weight pre cycle 230, 20 % bf (yeah I am a bit chubby).
Weight after 5 weeks on 252-255 (needle on my scale keeps jumping)(sure half of it may be water weight, but the other half is lean mass, so 12.5 lbs in 5 weeks, not bad.)
Side effects: so far just some joint pain in right elbow, a lot of sweating and reduced cardio capacity. I attribute this to Winstrol and Tren and Arimidex and not overly concerned about it.)

I also would really appreciate any general comments or advice from veterans on whether I have put together a good cycle here.

Also, I am injecting EOD (quads or shoulders or glutes) and I have just enough for 2 more injections, which would be about the end of week 5; I would like to know if this means I should definitely go grab some more gear from my guy, or if it would be ok considering my gains to shut it down after say 5 and a half weeks...I have another 106 tabs of winstrol left so I can continue that with the EQ I have to finish off the cycle.

Thanks for any answers.

[leather daddy]

400mg per ml. Shit man u got some good shit there. farkkkkk

[Philly82]

Yeah the guy I grab my gear off of is a pro BB and he is the one who put the stack together for me, so I know it is all pharmaceutical grade and comes from a lab in germany. But I really wanted some second opinions on the dosage and duration. The 3 10ml vials and 3 bottles of Winstrol and 1 bottle of Arimidex ran me $1000 and I know he probabaly made $200-300 off me but I am not worried about price as I feel safe as hell when I inject and I don`t mind him making a little on the side.

BUt really I just want to know what all the pros think of the stack and really want info on the dosage and if the duration is going to be a problem in maintaing results.

Thanks bro.

[lovbyts]

You got your gear from a Pro BB who doesnt know jack or at least must hate you and wants to LOL at you if you told you to take all that especially for a 1st cycle.

Did he happen to mention anything about PCT?
About side effects like extreme acnee? ED, muscle/tendon damage?

To be blunt, NO it's not a good cycle unless you have several years of experience and have done about 8 cycle or more already. More is NOT better especially in this case.

This is what you should be doing for a 1st cycle.
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ner-cycle-info

Again, NO more is NOT better.

[gonzo6183]

First cycle... Are you serious? Sh*t that's the biggest and worst thing u could be doing to your body, that's a very advanced cycle for someone with a lot of experience

[ironbeck]

That's a lot of juice man, your about to go ape

[Philly82]

Lovbyts, my guy is a pro. When I ordered my cycle I was in jail and could not directly speak to my buddy about my goals for this cycle. Basically, I told him I wanted a cycle to get bigger and more intimidating without being too bloated and watery, with minimal orals (e.g. no d-bol : no anadrol etc.) That is the cycle he came up with. I have 2 cycles under my belt already involving orals plus test etc. As far as acne goes, I have none. As far as muscle damage, why would that occur unless you overtrain or do not allow sufficient time for recovery. My guy has other business with me and he simply wanted to make me happy. He initially recommended a lighter dose, closer to 1000mg per week, but I upped it a bit just to see what would happen and look I am growing into a freaking monster.

Yes I will be doing PCT. My buddy has been doing this stuff for many years and he gave me a long speech about doing PCT. I am not prone to gyno, I am still ****ing my girl like a champ. As I said Arimidex and Winstrol would be expected to dry you out, so what side-effects are you refering to?

What gave you the impression this is a first cycle? Does it say that anywhere in my post?

[leather daddy]

stana only works to some degree man.

[lovbyts]

You guy is a pro idiot and most everyone here will tell you the same. Anyone who suggest a stack like that for a newbie either has no clue or just does not care about your health in any way. Like a LOT of so called pro BB there are a lot of guys who have ED or more serious health issues but wont tell anyone. It's the typical trying to be a big shot.

Even at 2 cycle, 1 being oral only that way to much gear. Muscle damage and tendons is due to feeling to much like superman, to strong to fast and your muscles and especially tendons are not ready for it even though you feel like it and you end up with ripped muscles. Even if you are careful it can happen to the best of us.

Good you dont have acne but many people dont experience it until after cycle or PCT. If you did not get any last time hopefully you wont this time. Just my .02 but I think it's to much. Careful on the strength gains and lifting heavy. focus more on form and lifting Slow. Warm up at least 2x what you normally do with a LOT of stretching.

[Philly82]

OK. Thank for the 2 cents. It is actually my 3rd cycle in the last year or so. In my line of work we don't really go for the cover of muscle and fitness look we go for the I am going to smash you ****ing head in if I want to look and that is what I asked my buddy for in terms of juice and it seems to be working miracles. I have an inkling that he was concerned with accomodating me and making sure I got outstanding results so that I would be happy and come back to him next time, rther than considering how many cycles I have already done. I have been hitting the gym about 4 times a week for an hour to hour and a half and have experienced fairly significant gains in size and strength and actually an increase in libido. But at least I got a couple of people saying that it is a lot of gear, so maybe next time around I will cut back to 1000mg /week, but I think it would be a let down after experiencing the power of this dosage. Oh well...saftey first right.

[Philly82]

Still haven`t got a response to whether or not stopping at 5-6 weeks is problem cuz thi stuff was supposed to last me about 8 weeks. But it`s almost all gone

[DanB]

it says in your op your going to use eq in your second cycle and have some pateince on the replys will you

you gear is only getting to work now so stopping is stupid but then again running tren with ytour lack of knowledge isnt a good idea either

what dosage is your armidex? ive only seen 1mg and that eod is far too much

i hope you have a strong pct planned

[DanB]

it says in your op your going to use eq in your second cycle and have some patience on the replys will you

alot of your gains are water mate even with the a.i.

there is no problem stopping now but you gear is only getting to work now so stopping is stupid but then again running tren with your lack of knowledge isnt a good idea either so what more important to you?

what dosage is your armidex? ive only seen 1mg and prob too much and combined with winny your asking for an injury

i hope you have a strong pct planned

[DanB]

EDIT

wrong thread lol

[lovbyts]

Stopping is not a problem

[Turkish Juicer]

Philly82, you would have attained quite satisfactory results with a 12 week Test E and Winstrol cycle at reasonable doses per se. You could have kick-started this cycle with Test Prop by running it for the first 4-5 weeks, since you seem not to be disturbed all that much from having so many needles ED.

Again, I have to agree with all other members who have stated similar opinions above that this is way too hardcore for a 3rd cycle, regardless of your goal.

As for stopping, it will probably do more good than harm, you should be fine as long as you run a proper PCT.

Also, I see no HCG in your cycle, big mistake if you ask me.

[gixxerboy1]

400mg per ml. Shit man u got some good shit there. farkkkkk

stana only works to some degree man.

No offense you are on your first cycle and posting new questions every day about it.
So try not to make comments when you dont know about the subject

[gixxerboy1]

Yeah the guy I grab my gear off of is a pro BB and he is the one who put the stack together for me, so I know it is all pharmaceutical grade and comes from a lab in germany. .

I agree with everyone else. This cycle is not a good one.

Also your stuff is not pharmaceutical. There is no pharm sust@ 400mg, there is no no pharm grade tren.

Your boy sold you a ton of shit you didnt need, made higher doses so you took more and bought more. And he made more $$
never take cycle advice from your drug dealer. He screwed you plane and simple

[Philly82]

OK bottom line:

Do I need to buy more and continue this cycle with the TEST/TREN/SUST combo for another 3-4 weeks or can I simply finish off with the remainder of the Winstrol and the vial of EQ 300mg/ml?

As far as being a drug dealer I would suggest that everyone slinging gear is a "drug dealer" at least my guy is willing to shoot himself in front of me with the same gear I am buying. The labels that are on the vials and and pill bottles are very professional and wirtten in German and then English. Not gonna post the lab name here but it is considered high end among the BB commmunity here. I guess that if I turn around and slang a guy a bottle of 60 (25mg) Winstrol for $200, since I don't need four of them, that makes me a dealer too. The way I look at it, my cycle now cost me $ 800. Yes I realize my lab is underground but I believe they are pharmacy grade. I can take a picture and email to someone and they could check it out and I am pretty sure they would know immediately on seeing it that it is professional/pharmacy grade.

Still wondering if this will be a huge waste of money if I run out of the Test/Tren/Sust in a few days?

What would be a better dosage? I figure this cycle would have gone 8-10 weeks if I had used around 1000mg/week, but it just seemed like so little.

[Turkish Juicer]

What would be a better dosage? I figure this cycle would have gone 8-10 weeks if I had used around 1000mg/week, but it just seemed like so little.

This cycle SHOULD have gone to 12 weeks at approx. 750mg EW but then it would have seemed like so little to you.

This is why you should have done an extensive research about your upcoming cycle and then started it as opposed to relying on your first 2 cycles as well as your gold digger of a supplier.

[Philly82]

Anyways, I think I will reduce the amount I am injecting to 1 cc EOD, which work out to about 850 mg total juice per week and see how long the rest of the stuff lasts. Lesson learned I guess. I just wonder how my body will react to taking roughly half the dosage?

As far as Arimidex goes, what's wrong with taking 1 mg EOD? Will this harm me somehow? This drug suppresses estrogen. I figured since I am taking a good amount of juice I should be cautious about preventing estrogen related sides.

[gixxerboy1]

you also need estrogen for alot of functions also. You dont want to eliminate estrogen just keep it in the normal range.
Everyone is different. But im on high doses also and you are take about 4x as much of me of a-dex.
Honestly if your boy is recommending all this he know shit. He may be a pro bb doesnt mean he understand how everything works.

[Philly82]

PS
Other supplements: ED
Calcium/Magnesium/Potassium/Glucosamine sulfate
B-12
Men's multivitamin
Phosphatidylcholine (from triple lecithin) for healthy liver function and to support fat loss
3 low carb protein shakes (Promasil) ED
Nutrition: 1 gm protein / lb body weight from tuna/chicken/turkey/beef/lamb etc. minimal carbs from dark green veggies.
Any thoughts
?

[gixxerboy1]

the other supplements arent going to hurt you. everyone has their opinion on how much they aid you.

diet would need more details. I can tell you i eat alot more the 1 gr of protein per lb.
i also eat other carbs besides jsut veggies. i eat rice and sweet potatoes....

[Philly82]

Ya I am tring to cut out carbs as I am already at 20% bf. Also, 2 gram per pound of protein is just too much calories for my goals.

[Philly82]

bump

[Turkish Juicer]

Ya I am tring to cut out carbs as I am already at 20% bf. Also, 2 gram per pound of protein is just too much calories for my goals.

You started a cycle with 4 compounds stacked at 1700mg weekly and you make a statement like that?

So, what is the point behind juicing like a monster if 2gr of PRO per pound is an issue?

I have seen many confused juicers on this board but let me tell you, you are something else.

[Turkish Juicer]

Anyways, I think I will reduce the amount I am injecting to 1 cc EOD, which work out to about 850 mg total juice per week and see how long the rest of the stuff lasts. Lesson learned I guess. I just wonder how my body will react to taking roughly half the dosage?

As far as Arimidex goes, what's wrong with taking 1 mg EOD? Will this harm me somehow? This drug suppresses estrogen. I figured since I am taking a good amount of juice I should be cautious about preventing estrogen related sides.

0.5mg EOD will be plenty for your current cycle.

I would NOT even consider 1mg EOD for various health reasons.

[DanB]

Ya I am tring to cut out carbs as I am already at 20% bf. Also, 2 gram per pound of protein is just too much calories for my goals.

If you weigh 200lbs and 2g protein per lb that's only 1200cals and 400g protein so how exactely do you think its too many cals?

[Turkish Juicer]

Anyways, I think I will reduce the amount I am injecting to 1 cc EOD, which work out to about 850 mg total juice per week and see how long the rest of the stuff lasts. Lesson learned I guess. I just wonder how my body will react to taking roughly half the dosage?

You should have not cycled with 4 compounds at 1700mg EW as for your 3rd cycle to begin with.

Get over the dosage man, it is not like cutting back on juice will make you loose your 1st place in Mr O. against Phil Heath or Jay cutler...

You don't even have a solid diet to back up such complex and heavy cycles. Learn how to eat like a pro before you juice like a pro.

[Philly82]

Chill out Troll Hammer, cuz your math is a little fuzzy and I did not want to get into a fitness / nutrition thread here at all.

Some math for you:

1 scoop protein powder : 23 grams portein
My weight 255 * 2 : 510 grams of daily protein intake according to your theory
Calories per scoop: 118 (w skim milk mixed in)
Number of scoops needed to achieve 510 grams daily protein: 22.17
22.17 scoops * 118 calories = 2616.06 calories per day from protein shakes alone!
Now add to that diet additional calories from fat and carbs etc. Minimum 500-800 calories extra with normal eating : total calories per day is a MINIMUM 3160

If you read my posts you will see my height and weight 5'10, 255. If I eat 3000 plus calories a day, which I would ****ing love to do right now BTW, day in day out, I will turn into a fat pig regardless of low carbs and high protein.

Like I said if you actually read my earlier posts my goals for juicing are to be big and intimidating; at 255, and 5'10 I am very happy with the result thus far. And that doesn't mean looking like a fitness guru or a big fat slob with 19 inch arms. As you know in some lines of work, just generally looking bigger and meaner than the other guy is good enough. As you also may know being really big doesn't get you girls and snizz, being cut gets you a ton of snizz. Obviously I am more towards the big side than the cut side and if I start eating the way you suggest that will be even more the case, which means less snizz.

If I were to derive my calories form whole large brown eggs :

85 eggs * 6 grams protein / egg = 510 grams protein
85 eggs * 70 calories / egg = 5950 calories / day [way too much as you can see]

If I were to get it from just from solid white Tuna:

17 184 g tuna cans * 30 grams protein / can = 510 grams protein
17 tuna cans * 220 calories = 3740 calories.

DanB, not calling you out, I see you post to a lot of threads that I read here, but you are on glue if you think you are getting only 1200 calories deriving from 510 grams of protein daily plus your other macro-nutrients in a normal well balanced diet that is say 20 % carbs, 20 % fat and 60 % protein. I've done the math a number of different ways and to be honest you are probably looking at 4000 plus calorie diets eating that much protein with orher nutrients in whole foods form: simple math : intake 4000 cals, burn 2500-2700 cals = get fat and lazy.

So what I shoot for is 2500-2700 calories / day and 1 - 1.5 grams protien per pound. I am sure I exceed my targets on days when I just have to eat pizza or whatever. But in general my diet is good for MY goals.

Like I said in the OP and subsequent posts I am interested in learning about dosage and duration of my current cycle, which is ****ing working great BTW. Something a lot of trolls here seem to ignore.

[DanB]

I cant be arsed explaining this so here is a copy and paste of a diet that 405 helped somebody put together and will fit your goals, you might want to keep reading because you have it backwards in your head

not difficult to cut the to take the protein up to 400g and keep cals same or slightly higher which should still be a deficit for your tdee

Meal 1
2eggs 12.6/1.6/10 180
4 egg whites 16/3.2/8 64
5.5.oz chicken breast 27/0/2.8 135
1/2cup brown rice 1.8/17.1/2.8 104

Meal 2
5oz. tuna 32.5/5/7.5 225
2 cups mixed veggies 4/10/0 60
170 grams cottage cheese 21.2/4.6/1.9 122

Meal 3 pre WO
2 scoops whey 44/6/4 236
1/2 cup oats 5/27/3 150

Meal 4 PWO
2 scoops whey 44/6/4 236
1/2 cup oats 5/27/3 150

Meal 5
204 grams baked talapia 26/12/1 160
200 grams cottage cheese 24.8/5.4/2.2 144
3 1/2 cups brocoli 7/10/0 70

Meal 6
2 scoops whey 44/6/4 236
200 grams cottage cheese 24.8/5.4/2.2 144


TOTAL
2410 CALORIES
339.7 PROTIEN
146.3 CARBS
56.4 FAT

[DanB]

you eat for LBM not fat hence why I said 400g and I rounded it up to simplyify it

[Philly82]

DanB,

Interesting diet. Being from Vancouver on the west coast I would probably substitute another fresh white fish for Tilapia which is mostly farmed and imported. But interesting nonetheless. PLus I can't handle the protein powder without milk which is not accounted for in terms of calories in the above diet.

[DanB]

what brand do you use?

i only put about 300ml of water into 2 scoop of strawberry myofusion and it actually taste nice

or even try half milk half water, when mixing with water just use as little as possible and its fine

when cutting you have to make sacrifices i.e. milk, i hated eating dry chicken and rice twice a day but sauce wouldnt fit into my macros so just forced it down

food and supplements serve a purpose so if they taste decent then its just a bonus for me

[Philly82]

Weird! It won't let me post the name of the protein that I am using as I am new to this forum and have less than 25 posts. Some kind of spam filter LOL. But anyways I have cut out carbs from most of my diet so the sugar and carbs from milk is my last resort.

I hate eating tuna can 3 -4 times a day, but I do it anyway.

I usually buy a few jugs of protein powder: chocolate, berry and vanilla just so I can have some variety.

Any way for me to get around this spam filter?

[DanB]

put spaces inbetween the l e t t e r s lol

[Philly82]

Oh...

I usually buy P R O M A S I L from G N C when it is on sale and a couple of jugs of generic low carb whey from the local drug store.

[Philly82]

Dan, Dammit you highjacked my thread and turned into a nutrition thread! LOL.

OP: DOSAGE / DURATION

Oh yeah someone was going off about test prop in the beginning of cycle, demonstrating their ignorance as there are already esters with short half life in the sustanon which makes up a third or more of my shot. This way I always have high blood levels of test throughout my cycle. As time went on and my own production started shutting down I gradually increased the size of my injection to compensate for lack of endogenous test. Don't really see the prbolem with this strategy and haven't heard anyone give me a valid reason why this is bad. Just a lot of hand wringing and wet nursing about "oooh that's a lot of juice bro"

Ever consider the fact that I am a fairly solid 255 lbs and I have a total fat free mass greater than a lot of these suckers who are probably 160 lbs soaking wet. So the juice I am injecting has greater total area of muscle to spread through when all is said and done.