Hard Work Seems to Not Matter In the End

[70sAesthetics]

From my understanding, anything above genetic limit requires juice to maintain. Anything below genetic limit can be maintained with or without juice assuming diet, sleep, nutrition are in check.

I have spent 3 yrs lifting like its my job. I feel im 70% at my genetic limit. I went from 13-18 inch arms natty. I feel I can get them to max 19-20 natty depending on BF levels.

My friend started cycling the second he started lifting. Although his diet, training, sleep are all in check as well.

Both of our goals is to be at our genetic limits and try and maintain that.

The rate he is going, he will hit his genetic limit, in a total of 1.5 yrs total lifting time, all with assistance. With 3 cycles completed.

I will hit my genetic limit in 4 yrs total lifting time, with 3 of those years natty and 1 cycle in the 4th year.


Besides the fact hes done more cycles in the end. Please explain to me why I am better off? Since both our goals is simply maintaining genetic limit and not competing. I feel like all my hard does not matter in this circumstance.

[--->>405<<---]

im a bit curious to how u figured out what ur genetic limit is ahead of time as well as how long its gonna take both of u to get there???

[Times Roman]

im a bit curious to how u figured out what ur genetic limit is ahead of time as well as how long its gonna take both of u to get there???

agree with 405. I have no clue what my genetic limit is. Longest i've gone is 5 serious years before "something happened" forcing me to abandon my routines. I've been 250 before natty, and it felt like I could maybe add another 25lbs or so. But only guessing. Now I'm 51, and my natty limit has (I'm pretty sure) been declining. Even hitting 245 where Im at now is a challange, and I'm blasting/cruising.

If you know a way to determine in advance your natty limit, I'd be interested in hearing what you have to say.

[70sAesthetics]

Point of thread was:

Guy A: Builds base of a few years. Does one cycle, hits his goal of 19/20 inch arms in 4 years. 3 natty, 1 assisted. Lets assume this is "around" Genetic Limit or slightly below. Or just GOAL SIZE.

Guy B: Does not build base and juices from start. Does 3-4 cycles and hits goal of 19/20 inch arms/same goal size as Guy A:, but in 2 yrs with assistance.

Both have perfect diet, nutrition, sleep.

Guy A reaches goal in 4 yrs. with 1 cycle.
Guy B reaches goal in 2 yrs. With 3-4 cycles

What are the advantages/disadvantages of both.

Guy A wasted 2 more years of life for same result???
Guy B has more health issues/more likely to lose gains????

[AlphaMaleDawg]

Point of thread was:

Guy A: Builds base of a few years. Does one cycle, hits his goal of 19/20 inch arms in 4 years. 3 natty, 1 assisted. Lets assume this is "around" Genetic Limit or slightly below. Or just GOAL SIZE.

Guy B: Does not build base and juices from start. Does 3-4 cycles and hits goal of 19/20 inch arms/same goal size as Guy A:, but in 2 yrs with assistance.

Both have perfect diet, nutrition, sleep.

Guy A reaches goal in 4 yrs. with 1 cycle.
Guy B reaches goal in 2 yrs. With 3-4 cycles

What are the advantages/disadvantages of both.

Guy A wasted 2 more years of life for same result???
Guy B has more health issues/more likely to lose gains????

Very good question. I don't think Guy B will have more health issues other than the fact he juiced more than Guy A. It is best to build a base. How long it takes depends on the person. It can take anywhere from 2-5 years for someone to hit their potential if they do everything right.

It is best to build a nice solid base and get at the very least, get close to your potential. Also make sure you are lean (all abs abs, etc.). So let's say you train 3 years diligently, are low bodyfat, and just won't progress anymore, then you either maintain that for good, or hit the juice and further enhance your physique.

[70sAesthetics]

Very good question. I don't think Guy B will have more health issues other than the fact he juiced more than Guy A. It is best to build a base. How long it takes depends on the person. It can take anywhere from 2-5 years for someone to hit their potential if they do everything right.

It is best to build a nice solid base and get at the very least, get close to your potential. Also make sure you are lean (all abs abs, etc.). So let's say you train 3 years diligently, are low bodyfat, and just won't progress anymore, then you either maintain that for good, or hit the juice and further enhance your physique.

Yes this is what I have always heard/thought. Im at the point where to get bigger which I think I could. Would require so much dedication, thats its almost not worth the reward/effort, at this point. Its like a video game where lvl 1-90 is "x" amount of time. And from lvl 90-99 is harder and longer than it was to get from lvl 1-90.

But really you havent/no one ever actually says why building the base is requiredl first? If were too assume one had done enough research to have perfect nutrition and good training from the get go why must be build a base first? You have already said Guy B will probably not have more health issues. So what is the actual reasoning here?

[MuscleInk]

From my understanding, anything above genetic limit requires juice to maintain. Anything below genetic limit can be maintained with or without juice assuming diet, sleep, nutrition are in check.

I have spent 3 yrs lifting like its my job. I feel im 70% at my genetic limit. I went from 13-18 inch arms natty. I feel I can get them to max 19-20 natty depending on BF levels.

My friend started cycling the second he started lifting. Although his diet, training, sleep are all in check as well.

Both of our goals is to be at our genetic limits and try and maintain that.

The rate he is going, he will hit his genetic limit, in a total of 1.5 yrs total lifting time, all with assistance. With 3 cycles completed.

I will hit my genetic limit in 4 yrs total lifting time, with 3 of those years natty and 1 cycle in the 4th year.

Besides the fact hes done more cycles in the end. Please explain to me why I am better off? Since both our goals is simply maintaining genetic limit and not competing. I feel like all my hard does not matter in this circumstance.

Hormones in your body control sleep, body temp, appetite, growth, mood, memory, sex drive, reproduction, immunity and more. Steroids WILL affect these functions in your body. Simply because your buddy is having success now doesn't mean he wont have significant problems later in life. Have you seen his blood work? Is he truly "healthy". Is his lipid profile normal? Are there any abnormalities in his red or white blood cells? Don't just assume that because he looks healthy, he is healthy. He could experience a number of problems later in life.

Also, just because someone else does something isn't reason enough for you to do it.

[gixxerboy1]

it takes years to hit a genetic limit on gear or not. It takes years for your body just to adjust to holding the extra weight as normal.
I thought i knew my limit many times

[70sAesthetics]

Hormones in your body control sleep, body temp, appetite, growth, mood, memory, sex drive, reproduction, immunity and more. Steroids WILL affect these functions in your body. Simply because your buddy is having success now doesn't mean he wont have significant problems later in life. Have you seen his blood work? Is he truly "healthy". Is his lipid profile normal? Are there any abnormalities in his red or white blood cells? Don't just assume that because he looks healthy, he is healthy. He could experience a number of problems later in life.

Also, just because someone else does something isn't reason enough for you to do it.

I agree with this. Although lets assume he only needed 3 cycles to hit that goal. The sides wouldnt be so bad. Also im willing to bed in twenty years, TRT will be a fad, for guys that never even did juice.

im a bit curious to how u figured out what ur genetic limit is ahead of time as well as how long its gonna take both of u to get there???

Dont sass me boy. Im aware of this. Im just guesstimating here, its not really the point anyway it just helps me explain the circumstance.

[MickeyKnox]

....Dont sass me boy. Im aware of this. Im just guesstimating here, its not really the point anyway it just helps me explain the circumstance.

[MuscleInk]

I agree with this. Although lets assume he only needed 3 cycles to hit that goal. The sides wouldnt be so bad. Also im willing to bed in twenty years, TRT will be a fad, for guys that never even did juice.

Dont sass me boy. Im aware of this. Im just guesstimating here, its not really the point anyway it just helps me explain the circumstance.

Hmmm....I practice medicine. Thanks for enlightening me with your wisdom. Lol

[--->>405<<---]

Dont sass me boy. Im aware of this. Im just guesstimating here, its not really the point anyway it just helps me explain the circumstance.

ill refrain from comment on the "boy" remark. however the apparent "point" of this thread is u want to whine because ur buddy is gonna possibly get "big" faster than u cuz hes cycling and ur not and u want us to tell u its okay..

id also like to note either u or him hitting ur "genetic limit" in 4 or 1.5 yrs respectively is pretty optimistic IMO..

[70sAesthetics]

all it takes is 1 cycle to fvck you up. So yes there is more risk at 3 then 1 cycle

Arent these chances extremely low??

ill refrain from comment on the "boy" remark. however the apparent "point" of this thread is u want to whine because ur buddy is gonna possibly get "big" faster than u cuz hes cycling and ur not and u want us to tell u its okay..

id also like to note either u or him hitting ur "genetic limit" in 4 or 1.5 yrs respectively is pretty optimistic IMO..

Yea ur right mr violin player that is kind of why im asking. I jjust wanna feels like my efforts are not in vain. u feels my feel?

[>Good Luck<]

The phrase should "just one cycle" should be banned. If you think u will just do one cycle, you have to start your research all over again. If you think your buddy will do 3 cycles and reach genetic potential and stop, you are wrong again.

Not trying to break your balls sir, just giving you a reality check for your own good. If you don't want to be a juiced out meathead, don't use juice ever. YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO DO ONE CYCLE!

[--->>405<<---]

Yea ur right mr violin player that is kind of why im asking. I jjust wanna feels like my efforts are not in vain. u feels my feel?

i dont understand how u could feel ur efforts would be in vain if u were progressing?? u stated ur arms are 5" bigger than originally, if we are to assume this growth applies to the rest of ur body i dont see how u would make such a statement..

if u think ur efforts have been in vain maybe u should pull out an old pic from before u started lifting and take a look at it and then re-evaluate.

[songdog]

I agree with this. Although lets assume he only needed 3 cycles to hit that goal. The sides wouldnt be so bad. Also im willing to bed in twenty years, TRT will be a fad, for guys that never even did juice.



Dont sass me boy. Im aware of this. Im just guesstimating here, its not really the point anyway it just helps me explain the circumstance.

You need to put that attitude in check.You make crazy statement then you want a stright answer.Chill people are here to help not listen to the way you talk to your kids.

[gixxerboy1]

Great way to make a first impression. Calling a very knowledgeable well respected member boy.

[stpete]

From my understanding, anything above genetic limit requires juice to maintain. Anything below genetic limit can be maintained with or without juice assuming diet, sleep, nutrition are in check.

I have spent 3 yrs lifting like its my job. I feel im 70% at my genetic limit. I went from 13-18 inch arms natty. I feel I can get them to max 19-20 natty depending on BF levels.

My friend started cycling the second he started lifting. Although his diet, training, sleep are all in check as well.

Both of our goals is to be at our genetic limits and try and maintain that.

The rate he is going, he will hit his genetic limit, in a total of 1.5 yrs total lifting time, all with assistance. With 3 cycles completed.

I will hit my genetic limit in 4 yrs total lifting time, with 3 of those years natty and 1 cycle in the 4th year.


Besides the fact hes done more cycles in the end. Please explain to me why I am better off? Since both our goals is simply maintaining genetic limit and not competing. I feel like all my hard does not matter in this circumstance.

How can you say your hard work isn't paying off when you admit you added 5 inches to your arms? And how do you know yours, or another persons genetic limit so far in advance?

[MuscleInk]

Damn. He could have called me "boy". I'd take that over "old man"! Lol

[Lunk1]

Sounds like a good name change for 405 "Boy" lol!

[MuscleInk]

Sounds like a good name change for 405 "Boy" lol!

I think he'd like being referred to as boy. Maybe man-boy or bad-boy?

[Warrior1700]

I think he'd like being referred to as boy. Maybe man-boy or bad-boy?

Or Mama's "Boy"...Now if he called qixxer"boy"1 that would be understandable... as that IS part of his name after all. Lol

[70sAesthetics]

Im laughing my ass off. But srs halp. If he hits his goal in 3 cycles and half the lifting time. Have i dun goofed by wasting 4 years of life for a process that only took him 2. Does the difference of 1 cycle ever used to 3 cycles ever used really provide that much negative effects.

[Lunk1]

Im laughing my ass off. But srs halp. If he hits his goal in 3 cycles and half the lifting time. Have i dun goofed by wasting 4 years of life for a process that only took him 2. Does the difference of 1 cycle ever used to 3 cycles ever used really provide that much negative effects.

I have not read this whole thread but I read the original. I would say (believe it or not) that because you have learned to do things the "right" way and he has gained from juice...there will come a time when he hits the wall and your able to surpass him. When? I don't know...but it's very likely!

Not to mention..his gains will be harder for him to hang on to as it's the juice that supports them not his diet and routine!Trust me...there are several of US that had great gains during our first cycle or 3 and lost everything because we had no diet discipline!

[gixxerboy1]

Im laughing my ass off. But srs halp. If he hits his goal in 3 cycles and half the lifting time. Have i dun goofed by wasting 4 years of life for a process that only took him 2. Does the difference of 1 cycle ever used to 3 cycles ever used really provide that much negative effects.

all it takes is 1 cycle to fvck you up. So yes there is more risk at 3 then 1 cycle

[Squats33]

All I gotta say is, take a look at the rock. Tons of changes here lately and I'm sure he's not at his "limit" and he's 40!!!

[Squats33]

So stop asking questions, either take AAS or don't, but either way.... JUST BRING IT... In the gym

[John Andrew]

Wow! Here I am and still no idea about what is my genetic limit. All I know is if I train hard 3 hours a day afet 32 years I am stronger than I ever was!

There are no limits except those you place in your mind! I may be older than I ever was but I am also better, wiser, and while I do not have the same speed and flexibility, my endurance and ability to withstand pain is exceptional!

I will be a whole lot older before i reach any limits! John

[Lunk1]

I'm 6 ft currently 235ish...Iv'e been 280..I'm nealy 40 and I have no FKN clue where my genetic limit is. Why? Because I have never gotten to a competition level nor will I.

I cant see how you have any idea where your linit is but..if you are pissed cause you worked harder longer and he is even with you. Dont blame it all on juice...I have an old friend who's whole family are genetic freaks. He can walk in the gym...BS with everyone for 20 min., walk out and gain 10lbs of lean muscle. Perhaps your friend has better genetics to grow in the first place...your not both equal.

This whole thread is pointless...hit the juice and see what heppens...don't know what else to tell ya!

[AlphaMaleDawg]

From my understanding, anything above genetic limit requires juice to maintain. Anything below genetic limit can be maintained with or without juice assuming diet, sleep, nutrition are in check.

I have spent 3 yrs lifting like its my job. I feel im 70% at my genetic limit. I went from 13-18 inch arms natty. I feel I can get them to max 19-20 natty depending on BF levels.

My friend started cycling the second he started lifting. Although his diet, training, sleep are all in check as well.

Both of our goals is to be at our genetic limits and try and maintain that.

The rate he is going, he will hit his genetic limit, in a total of 1.5 yrs total lifting time, all with assistance. With 3 cycles completed.

I will hit my genetic limit in 4 yrs total lifting time, with 3 of those years natty and 1 cycle in the 4th year.


Besides the fact hes done more cycles in the end. Please explain to me why I am better off? Since both our goals is simply maintaining genetic limit and not competing. I feel like all my hard does not matter in this circumstance.

I agree with your post almost entirely. The guy who is on gear will always look better than the guy who is not, unless there is an extremely drastic difference in the way each of you eat.

[Lunk1]

I agree with your post almost entirely. The guy who is on gear will always look better than the guy who is not, unless there is an extremely drastic difference in the way each of you eat.

Your pics are amazing and I'm jelious as hell BUT...you say some of the dumbest shyt!

You cannot compare 2 ppl and say one will look better because of juice! The #1 factor in how you will look is genetics! Toss in diet, juice and routine and you can still only maximize your genetics, which are different than someone elses genetics.

The op has a case of Penis envy....no amount of juice will make his cock as big as his friends!

[--->>405<<---]

The op has a case of Penis envy....no amount of juice will make his cock as big as his friends!

so ur saying size DOES matter Job?? man all this time i believed all those women that told me not to worry about it that it was the "motion of the ocean"

[AlphaMaleDawg]

Your pics are amazing and I'm jelious as hell BUT...you say some of the dumbest shyt!

You cannot compare 2 ppl and say one will look better because of juice! The #1 factor in how you will look is genetics! Toss in diet, juice and routine and you can still only maximize your genetics, which are different than someone elses genetics.

The op has a case of Penis envy....no amount of juice will make his cock as big as his friends!

Easy with the insults. Yes of course genetics are extremely important. So is gear. In fact, genetics are really what determine what people can get away with from a diet standpoint. It's not cut & dry and there are too many variables that shape what someone will look like. At the same time, if a guy is natural, he can only get to a certain point and any effort beyond there is just going to help the person maintain his physique.

[Lunk1]

Easy with the insults. Yes of course genetics are extremely important. So is gear. In fact, genetics are really what determine what people can get away with from a diet standpoint. It's not cut & dry and there are too many variables that shape what someone will look like. At the same time, if a guy is natural, he can only get to a certain point and any effort beyond there is just going to help the person maintain his physique.

Now your refering to genetic limits...again, different for everyone! The op needs to compare himself to HIMSELF, not anyone else.

I agree that once one has hit a genetic limit then the only solution is juice to push past and juice will be required to maintain anything past limits.

Your comment did not compare 2 ppl at genetic growth limits..it simply said a person on juice will look better than one not on juice!

[AlphaMaleDawg]

[/B]

Now your refering to genetic limits...again, different for everyone! The op needs to compare himself to HIMSELF, not anyone else.

I agree that once one has hit a genetic limit then the only solution is juice to push past and juice will be required to maintain anything past limits.

Your comment did not compare 2 ppl at genetic growth limits..it simply said a person on juice will look better than one not on juice!

I fail to see where our opinions differ. Not sure why you think I am disagreeing with anything you are saying.

[70sAesthetics]

Your pics are amazing and I'm jelious as hell BUT...you say some of the dumbest shyt!

You cannot compare 2 ppl and say one will look better because of juice! The #1 factor in how you will look is genetics! Toss in diet, juice and routine and you can still only maximize your genetics, which are different than someone elses genetics.

The op has a case of Penis envy....no amount of juice will make his cock as big as his friends!

My chawk is bigger than my friends and im still way bigger than him and better looking. hes only 190lbs with 15 inch arms at 25%bf.

but hey just your opinion.....betas gonna beta...

[--->>405<<---]

My chawk is bigger than my friends and im still way bigger than him and better looking. hes only 190lbs with 15 inch arms at 25%bf.

but hey just your opinion.....betas gonna beta...

this statement contradicts the premise of ur entire OP IMO. if hes 190lbs and 25% bf chances are he looks like shit and should not be cycling. 142.5lbs LBM LOL.. genetic limit in 1.5 yrs..

u just making this up as u go along or wat dude?

[ANIMAL]

Someone just tell him he wasted 4 years of his life, that's really all he's looking for regardless of what anyone says in the thread.

I've been BB for over 6 years, and I'm still learning new things all the time. You can't trade away experience and gained knowledge because someone looks better then you by taking an enhancement. Sounds like you're just jealous of your friend and want some reassurance on not doing more cycles. Just when you think you have everything "in check" there are always ways to improve.

I'd say the improvements you made in 4 years is really good. Could you have made better improvements faster if you were on gear? Of course. You know that already. No idea how one can decide on hitting a genetic limit.

[Lunk1]

It only matters to them but they don't matter lol!

[--->>405<<---]

It only matters to them but they don't matter lol!

ive always maintained the position that my penis being large enuff for me to be able to have an orgasm!