Is a Hybrid really worth it?

[Lunk1]

Is the additional average price increase of 3K-5K over the cost of a non-hybrid car really worth it?

At what point mileage and years wise does it become a savings?

I fugured in 20,000 miles per year over 5 years at a fuel rate of $3-4 and it would seem that it is cheaper in the long run to not spend the additional $ on a hybrid (factoring 10 miles per gallon better fuel economy on the hybrid).

Any thoughts???

[BUTTERYGOODNESS]

I've been told by the time u have to replace the expensive ass battery it will nullify the amount u saved in gas.

[lovbyts]

I've been told by the time u have to replace the expensive ass battery it will nullify the amount u saved in gas.

^^^ there you go. I figured this out many years ago. It's all just another BS scam to make money. If they wanted they can easily make cars that get 80+ mph and drive perfectly normal. No they wont run 10s quarter miles but they would drive hwy speeds just fine.

1984

Honda

Civic Coupe

4 cylinder

(M5) Manual

51mpg city,

67mpg hwy

Why 30 years later 40mpg is considered high?

OK...so why are so many ppl still falling for this shyt???

Media!!! Same reason AAS is bad, Guns (assault rifles) kill people and need banned, Government is the answer to all our problems.

[austinite]

nope.

[Lunk1]

nope.

That is exactly what my math told me. All things being the same as far as maintanence goes..the hybrid still would cost 500-2500 more to own after determining additional fuel costs for the non-hybrid.

[ElectraMaddox]

That is exactly what my math told me. All things being the same as far as maintanence goes..the hybrid still would cost 500-2500 more to own after determining additional fuel costs for the non-hybrid.

How did you base that... Off of the higher asking price , minus what gas would be for 15k miles at 4 bucks a gallon?

[Lunk1]

How did you base that... Off of the higher asking price , minus what gas would be for 15k miles at 4 bucks a gallon?

Yes at the better gas mileage and the normal gas mileage. Used 10mpg diff. which seems pretty common. The cost savings at $3 gallon for example was $2500 and the lowest diif between normal and hybrid was $3000....still cost $500 more to own the hybrid. Some are 5K or more diff. in price

[ElectraMaddox]

20k*

[bikeral]

There are online calculators that do the math. For most people not worth it if you are looking to save money from what I can see.

[Lunk1]

There are online calculators that do the math. For most people not worth it if you are looking to save money from what I can see.

I suppose if you drove ashyt ton of mles or intended to keep the car over 5 years it would pay off...

[Rwy]

I actually worked this out about 5 years ago down to the penny and it was more expensive to own a hybrid. Not sure if things have changed much

[Fllifter]

It's still more expensive to own a hybrid, and in the end they are worse for the environment then most cars..

[Lunk1]

OK...so why are so many ppl still falling for this shyt???

[Rwy]

OK...so why are so many ppl still falling for this shyt???

Because they are tree hugging ****ing hippies who only eat organic

[Fllifter]

Here,


Prius Outdoes Hummer in Enviromental Damage
By Chris Demorro
Staff Writer, The Recorder, Central Connecticut State University
March 7, 2007

The Toyota Prius has become the flagship car for those in our society so environmentally conscious that they are willing to spend a premium to show the world how much they care. Unfortunately for them, their ultimate 'green car' is the source of some of the worst pollution in North America; it takes more combined energy per Prius to produce than a Hummer.

Before we delve into the seedy underworld of hybrids, you must first understand how a hybrid works. For this, we will use the most popular hybrid on the market, the Toyota Prius.

The Prius is powered by not one, but two engines: a standard 76 horsepower, 1.5-liter gas engine found in most cars today and a battery- powered engine that deals out 67 horsepower and a whooping 295ft/lbs of torque, below 2000 revolutions per minute. Essentially, the Toyota Synergy Drive system, as it is so called, propels the car from a dead stop to up to 30mph. This is where the largest percent of gas is consumed. As any physics major can tell you, it takes more energy to get an object moving than to keep it moving. The battery is recharged through the braking system, as well as when the gasoline engine takes over anywhere north of 30mph. It seems like a great energy efficient and environmentally sound car, right?

You would be right if you went by the old government EPA estimates, which netted the Prius an incredible 60 miles per gallon in the city and 51 miles per gallon on the highway. Unfortunately for Toyota, the government realized how unrealistic their EPA tests were, which consisted of highway speeds limited to 55mph and acceleration of only 3.3 mph per second. The new tests which affect all 2008 models give a much more realistic rating with highway speeds of 80mph and acceleration of 8mph per second. This has dropped the Prius's EPA down by 25 percent to an average of 45mpg. This now puts the Toyota within spitting distance of cars like the Chevy Aveo, which costs less then half what the Prius costs.
However, if that was the only issue with the Prius, I wouldn't be writing this article. It gets much worse.
Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer that is on the road for three times longer than a Prius. As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the 'dead zone' around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.

The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius' battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist's nightmare.

"The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside," said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper.
All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to make a hybrid doesn't end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce 'nickel foam.' From there, it goes to Japan.
Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery. Are these not sounding less and less like environmentally sound cars and more like a farce?

Wait, I haven't even got to the best part yet.

When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and build a Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50 percent more energy than a Hummer - the Prius's arch nemesis.

Through a study by CNW Marketing called "Dust to Dust," the total combined energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.

The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles. That means the Hummer will last three times longer than a Prius and use less combined energy doing it.

So, if you are really an environmentalist - ditch the Prius. Instead, buy one of the most economical cars available a Chevy Aveo and fix that lead foot.

One last fun fact for you: it takes five years to offset the premium price of a Prius. Meaning, you have to wait 60 months to save any money over a non-hybrid car because of lower gas expenses.

[lovbyts]

One last fun fact for you: it takes five years to offset the premium price of a Prius. Meaning, you have to wait 60 months to save any money over a non-hybrid car because of lower gas expenses.

And thats only if gas prices were to stay the same they are now/then. In other words it will probalby take 6+ years.

[panntastic]

I don't know how it is over there but in the uk hybrid owners think they are formula 1 drivers
I seldom see one being driven sensibly. They are always being ragged about and driven in a poor fashion.
The tv show Top Gear here did a piece on this on one of their shows and the took a Prius around the test track at high speed and a BMW M3
The m3 showed better fuel economy as it was built for that mind of thing and the Prius wasn't.

[MuscleInk]

I looked at a hybrid 4 years ago. A buddy of mine is a VP for Honda and he told me that in the long run it works out the same and there is no real advantage. He said the price differential plus expensive maintenance costs offset any savings in fuel.

I don't know, nearly $400 a week on gas for me makes me think otherwise!!!

Side note: hybrid owners in Cali drive me nuts. They can't seem to drive their vehicles any faster than 60mph!!!!!!!!!

MuscleInk

[Honkey_Kong]

What I want to know is the actual gas milage of these hybrid cars. They always post the theoretical mileage, but in practice you'll never get those.

[sorooshusa]

What I want to know is the actual gas milage of these hybrid cars. They always post the theoretical mileage, but in practice you'll never get those.

mpg depends of environment, that is air temperature, wind gust, tire pressure and texture and size, driving habbit meaning acceleration and deceleration frequency and intensity (again as in how often and how hard do you accelerate and apply brakes) driving route (meaning do you often run into rush hour traffic?) inclined, road condition and texture (because when they test cars, they pretty much announce their own version of perfect world condition results) rougher asphalt will decrease your mpg due to higher grip, day time driving is still different than night time.

[Honkey_Kong]

mpg depends of environment, that is air temperature, wind gust, tire pressure and texture and size, driving habbit meaning acceleration and deceleration frequency and intensity (again as in how often and how hard do you accelerate and apply brakes) driving route (meaning do you often run into rush hour traffic?) inclined, road condition and texture (because when they test cars, they pretty much announce their own version of perfect world condition results) rougher asphalt will decrease your mpg due to higher grip, day time driving is still different than night time.

I'm aware of what the actual MPG depends on. I'm wondering what the average mpg people are getting in the real world on say a Prius. Good gas milage goes out the window when the car has such crappy power to it that you have to floor it every time just to get it up to speed.

[JD250]

And where does all this "maintenance" BS come from, I have NEVER taken a Prius back into a dealership other than to trade for the next one. And I love driving the mountain passes, Vail to Eisenhower comes to mind.... I pass more full size V8 vehicles than you can imagine.....80 uphill while the big boys are struggling and smoking to keep 70...... electricity aint got no time for that BS, get your big car driving asses out the way. HA!!

[sorooshusa]

clearly you dont know the difference between Hybrid and EV. and i wonder how much your investing on your trade-in for a new one annually. am I the only one here who can smell the biased report on your sentimental little prius??

btw heres some numbers for you to have fun with. i used to own and evo8, 2.0L 4cyl. was pushing 300 awhp, could accelerate to 60 in 3.5 seconds, it could also accelerate to 60 in 3.5 seconds UP HILL! its called TORQUE. your car would have blown a fuse or some shit if it tried that up hill. HA!!

[lovbyts]

Like I said earlier. Lets compare it to the:

1984

Honda

Civic Coupe

4 cylinder

(M5) Manual

51mpg city,

67mpg hwy

[sorooshusa]

Hybrid vs. traditional is not all about mpg. If you are that kind of person who thinks of cars as a tool to get from point A to point B, you almost have no business asking advanced questions like Hybrid vs. traditional. but I assume you think of cars more than just a transportation means, rather a companion, because you will be spending major time with it. The short answer is NO. the long answer is NOOOOOOOOOOO. lol
Theres more than just mpg. not only at long run Hybrid will cost the same if not more to maintain, but you are also sacrificing major performance trade. Hybrids are not built for extreme conditions. I live in Arizona where its literally 120F degrees. that reduces the performance of hybrids by a lot. hybrids only makes sense if you throw away all the fun out of driving and only focusing on getting the best run for your buck, meaning dont accelerate too fast and dont stop-start, speed up enough to make it to speed limit and let go of gas pedal about half a mile before traffic light cuz it might turn red and you might have to stop. if you can do that for about 5 years, you might save about $100. lol

[lovbyts]

Hybrid vs. traditional is not all about mpg. If you are that kind of person who thinks of cars as a tool to get from point A to point B, you almost have no business asking advanced questions like Hybrid vs. traditional. but I assume you think of cars more than just a transportation means, rather a companion, because you will be spending major time with it. The short answer is NO. the long answer is NOOOOOOOOOOO. lol
Theres more than just mpg. not only at long run Hybrid will cost the same if not more to maintain, but you are also sacrificing major performance trade. Hybrids are not built for extreme conditions. I live in Arizona where its literally 120F degrees. that reduces the performance of hybrids by a lot. hybrids only makes sense if you throw away all the fun out of driving and only focusing on getting the best run for your buck, meaning dont accelerate too fast and dont stop-start, speed up enough to make it to speed limit and let go of gas pedal about half a mile before traffic light cuz it might turn red and you might have to stop. if you can do that for about 5 years, you might save about $100. lol

If we are talking about Hybrids then YES it's all about MPG and getting from point A - B

If I want a relationship with my car or think of it as a companion then I will stick to my 3000GT VR4 twin turbo that gets 25mpg+ on the hwy, dyno (not stock) 400hp at the wheels (approx 525 crank) and will do 200mph, 12.8 sec 1/4 mile; is my companion of choice.

[JD250]

I may be the only one with any ACTUAL experience. My wife is on her second Prius and YES they are worth it if you compare apples to apples, at least somewhat close. She has averaged on both vehicles 50mpg.... that's average. The Prius gets the best mileage in town and that's where most of your mileage is driven, these cars are equipped with computers that keep track of everything and even on a long road trip vacation it's surprising how many miles are driven at city speeds as compared to highway...... I digress, they AVERAGE 50 period. So in order to compare you need to show me a comparable vehicle that gets 40 AVERAGE....... that's the magic word, don't be fooled by a manufacturers claims you need to know what the car will average under your driving conditions. I've heard every argument under the sun from people who don't own a Prius but I can tell you without a doubt that at 4 bucks a gallon it not only pays for the difference in cost it pays back way over and above that, not to mention that the resale on a good 3 year old Prius seems to be very solid, moreso than a cheap no frills hyundai or the like.

That's my speel on Toyota Prius, the math works out well. As far as other hybrids go....... my attempt at the math could never make it work out although I haven't looked closely at the new ones. Remember if they say 37 on the highway and 30 in town..... you will more than likely average close to 30 on the non hybrids.

[JD250]

Don't get your undies in a bundle junior, I reported absolute facts about a hybrid Prius on a thread that was asking for such...... grow a sense of humor and you won't likely get so upset about some guy on the internet talking smack about his wifes Prius..... take a deep breath and try to laugh a little.

As far as trade in goes, I finance all I can and trade in at about 3 years or 60 thousand miles..... last trade in not only payed the remainder of the note but left about 5000 bucks over and above to put towards the next one. I believe it was a 5 or 7 yr note...... doesn't matter to me as I always keep a new one in the garage, if your looking to own the same one for the next 30 years.... good luck, can't help ya there.

BTW.... I've never blown a fuse.... LOL

[JD250]

^^^ Nice!!! My jeep will go from 0 to 70 ......... that's it.... 70 I don't know how long it takes to get there but it uses copious amounts of fuel just to achieve that. LOL

[Armykid93]

Its so easy to find a cheap car that gets great gas mileage these days. The ford fiesta, Hyundai accent which I drive. Completely not worth it for a hybrid. Even the larger family sedans get phenomenal mileage these days.

[Armykid93]

OK...so why are so many ppl still falling for this shyt???

Why do people hate steroids haha? They just won't educate themselves

[moseley2004]

I've changed a few Prius batteries In my time. In the land down under your looking at a 5k bill for this job. This alone shows not worth buying these crap boxes. And on average the batts last 5 years

[DSM4Life]

Nope.