NPP or Masteron with tren?

[AR's King Silabolin]

My cycle will include test ofcourse, and a dianabol/anadrol changeup.

But its a SBC and im adding more.
I will do tren a in week 3-4 and 7-8.

Week 5-6 i will use masteron or npp. What would u go for? I think masteron cause we need a dht but npp is more anabolic but maybe not as different compared to tren as mast?

[numbere]

Mast is a very poor muscle builder.

It's primarily a muscle conditioner.

Honestly I mean no offense by saying this but I doubt your bf will be low enough to get the full benefit of mast.

Plus your kind of obsessive compulsive about cholesterol and mast is notorious for wreaking cholesterol.

Imo run NPP.

[AR's King Silabolin]

Mast is a very poor muscle builder.

It's primarily a muscle conditioner.

Honestly I mean no offense by saying this but I doubt your bf will be low enough to get the full benefit of mast.

Plus your kind of obsessive compulsive about cholesterol and mast is notorious for wreaking cholesterol.

Imo run NPP.

Last first. Your rigth about colestrol. I have been struggling but i have changed my diett. Didnt eat any veggies before. BB suggested my diett was the explanation. Bur havent checked it yet. But i will do precycle BW.
And another point. Ive red a couple of pubmed reports suggesting that aasrelated cholestrolworsening do not thicken the arteriewalls.

No ur rigth. Iguess i will not get below 12% but i have cycled masteron before with 16/17% with good results. And my maingoal is not to benefit from masteron the most. But to work in synergy and squise the most out of tren.
And in lack of other options it must be masteron or npp. Dont know other injectables which would fit in week 2 5 and 6.

[numbere]

I think nandrolone and tren have an awesome synergistic effect when used together.

Depending on what doses you'll be running you might consider taking 10mg/d of nolva as a precautionary measure.

The affect elevated cholesterol from AAS has on arterial walls would be dependent on the size (short vs long) of the cholesterol molecules in your blood stream. Which would be largely dependent on diet.

Elevated cholesterol isn't necessarily bad, rather it depends on the size of the molecules present.

Large particulates are good, it's the small particulates that damage arteries and allow calcium deposits to form.

[Mr.BB]

Elevated cholesterol isn't necessarily bad, rather it depends on the size of the molecules present.

Large particulates are good, it's the small particulates that damage arteries and allow calcium deposits to form.

Sorry to burst you guys bubble here, but the facts are not exactly as described above (although a particular number of ppl consistently try to give slight changes to reality).

It is true that large LDL is less harmful than small LDL, but to say that large particles "are good" is wrong. The graph below depicts how much:



from: Low-Density Lipoprotein and High-Density Lipoprotein Particle Subclasses Predict Coronary Events and Are Favorably Changed by Gemfibrozil Therapy in the Veterans Affairs High-Density Lipoprotein Intervention Trial



EDIT: Ok, what the graph is saying is that large LDL particles increase the risk of Coronary Heart Disease in 31%, instead of 44% from the small LDL.

[AR's King Silabolin]

Sorry to burst you guys bubble here, but the facts are not exactly as described above (although a particular number of ppl consistently try to give slight changes to reality).

It is true that large LDL is less harmful than small LDL, but to say that large particles "are good" is wrong. The graph below depicts how much:



from: Low-Density Lipoprotein and High-Density Lipoprotein Particle Subclasses Predict Coronary Events and Are Favorably Changed by Gemfibrozil Therapy in the Veterans Affairs High-Density Lipoprotein Intervention Trial



EDIT: Ok, what the graph is saying is that large LDL particles increase the risk of Coronary Heart Disease in 31%, instead of 44% from the small LDL.

Yes. But the mainpoint here. Do u think the pubmedreports, which say aasworsened cholerstrol do not thicken the arterie walls, are wrong?

[Mr.BB]

Yes. But the mainpoint here. Do u think the pubmedreports, which say aasworsened cholerstrol do not thicken the arterie walls, are wrong?

If I remember correctly the study you posted a while ago, was more related to the heart wall than arteries, wasnt it? Can you link it again?

But about your cholesterol, its always going to be high if you keep eating high amount of eggs, milk, cheese and butter.

[AR's King Silabolin]

If I remember correctly the study you posted a while ago, was more related to the heart wall than arteries, wasnt it? Can you link it again?

But about your cholesterol, its always going to be high if you keep eating high amount of eggs, milk, cheese and butter.

heart wall?..no, got to do with the arteries.....and dont think it was only the arteriewalls in the heart, but all arteries.
But i try to find it again. Just come home from training and wife wants to go out for dinner so gotta run.

But its complex man. ive red eggs and milk and cheese is good for HDL and yet if its raises the LDL, it raises your HDL more, closing the gap beetween hdl and ldl, which is far more important than having low total cholestrol.

But, my BP and heartbeat at rest is optimal for my age. And that migth tell that my bad cholestrol last years (due to bad diett) has not done so much damage.

[AR's King Silabolin]

I think nandrolone and tren have an awesome synergistic effect when used together.

Depending on what doses you'll be running you might consider taking 10mg/d of nolva as a precautionary measure.

The affect elevated cholesterol from AAS has on arterial walls would be dependent on the size (short vs long) of the cholesterol molecules in your blood stream. Which would be largely dependent on diet.

Elevated cholesterol isn't necessarily bad, rather it depends on the size of the molecules present.

Large particulates are good, it's the small particulates that damage arteries and allow calcium deposits to form.

Interesting. Didnt get that info from pubmed. Maybe aas create large particles then. And i think i remember Bostin said that too. As long as your diett is cholestrolfriendly, u shouldnt woory too much about aas and cholestrol.

But wouldnt a dht and 19nor have more synergy than two 19nors?

I def will consider your nolvatip in my SBC

[numbere]

Interesting. Didnt get that info from pubmed. Maybe aas create large particles then. And i think i remember Bostin said that too. As long as your diett is cholestrolfriendly, u shouldnt woory too much about aas and cholestrol.

A VAP cholesterol test will tell you the size the size of the cholesterol particulates in your blood.

But wouldnt a dht and 19nor have more synergy than two 19nors?

That question is above my pay grade.

[AR's King Silabolin]

That question is above my pay grade.

Ok. You are not a Vet yet so....

Kidding...thanks man. Indept info as always

[hammerheart]

Is that VAP cholesterol test even available abroad? I can only find some articles but not actual labs providing it. I'm concerned about CV disease since three of my grandparents have it.

[Chicagotarsier]

For me the ONLY difference in my labs for the Cholesterol was good HDL moving to low end of the range. The others never budged.

I guess if you cruise at high enough levels it could run you into the area of "worry". Maybe I am just lucky in this aspect.

[Mr.BB]

Found it: http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...sclerosis.html

You pasted 2 studies together, the first is only about LV left ventricule.

What they say is that the AAS dont directly cause artery thickning, although they confirm that steroids do change lipids in a bad way.
With time we know that high cholesterol promotes atherosclerosis.

Where you read that eggs are good for cholesterol??

It was not in any medical information board...

[AR's King Silabolin]

Found it: http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...sclerosis.html

You pasted 2 studies together, the first is only about LV left ventricule.


where you read that eggs are good for cholesterol??

It was not in any medical information board...

In a couple of fitness magazines.
And they kind of bullied the "old" doctors, with education from the 60s, stil saying eggs are bad for cholestrol.

[numbere]

In a couple of fitness magazines.
And they kind of bullied the "old" doctors, with education from the 60s, stil saying eggs are bad for cholestrol.

Hey Sil, you ever consider using a small amount (50mcg/d) of t3 on cycle to reduce/control bf?

[AR's King Silabolin]

Hey Sil, you ever consider using a small amount (50mcg/d) of t3 on cycle to reduce/control bf?

No, never studied t3. Aas, sarms and peptides only. I was hoping the cjc1295 for 12 weeks with good diett and cardio would do the trick.
Im not looking for below 12% now. It will be more of a bulk. Its winther!. Next summer infront of the Grand Canaria holiday i migth be interested in dropping below 12%.

U have good experiences with t3?

[numbere]

U have good experiences with t3?

Yes great experiences especially during a bulk, that's why I brought it up.

Helps keep bf low(er) on a bulk.

T3 works well with tren, nandrolone or tren/nandrolone on a cut or bulk.

It's much better and less expensive than any SARM or peptide.

[hammerheart]

In a couple of fitness magazines.
And they kind of bullied the "old" doctors, with education from the 60s, stil saying eggs are bad for cholestrol.

I eat eggs on a daily basis and loads of butter, sometimes a whole stick. My total cholesterol is 150, HDL 60, LDL-C 70. I have been above therapeutic TRT ranges since April. It was 220 in July but I have dropped AI since and that normalized my lipids.

[Mr.BB]

In a couple of fitness magazines.
And they kind of bullied the "old" doctors, with education from the 60s, stil saying eggs are bad for cholestrol.

Yeah, still in 2016 we have ppl advocating for atkins fat diet despite all the evidence against it.

Some ppl here (and even in my gym) still think that eating fat makes them have more testosterone LOL.

There's nothing wrong in a bit of olive oil in your salad, but when you think that a one table spoon can have more calories than the whole salad, and you see ppl drowning the vegetables in it, you know that coronary disease is still going to continue as number death cause.

About the eggs you can believe whatever you want, personally prefer to look at facts and even try it on myself. About facts you just need to read this study:





From: Effect of dietary cholesterol on plasma cholesterol concentration in subjects following reduced fat, high fibre diet

[ScotchGuard02]

My genetics suck and my triglyceride and cholesterol were off the charts. The numbers actually went down when I was cycling. I changed my diet and the numbers dropped again. I've been cycling for about 15 years and my numbers didn't change too much. I finally got medication and in my last PCT blook work, all of my lipid numbers were totally normal. IMO, controlled cycling of AAS didn't affect my body in a harmful way. As a matter of fact, my cholesterol numbers dropped as I cycled and watched my diet. I'm no doctor, scientist, or medical professional. I know what I put in my body and what my blood work says. For me, AAS cycling has not proven to be harmful in any way over the past 15 years. Oh, about NPP or Mast? I'd run NPP. Running 2 Nor-19's are fine. I've run Tren/Primo and Tren/NPP with awesome results. Next year I'll run Tren/Mast and see how they work.

[numbere]

Sorry to burst you guys bubble here, but the facts are not exactly as described above (although a particular number of ppl consistently try to give slight changes to reality).

It is true that large LDL is less harmful than small LDL, but to say that large particles "are good" is wrong. The graph below depicts how much:

...

EDIT: Ok, what the graph is saying is that large LDL particles increase the risk of Coronary Heart Disease in 31%, instead of 44% from the small LDL.

Thanks for the study B, but that was damn read lol.

Yeah you're right, I should have worded that statement much differently.

The main thought that I was trying to convey is that a VAP test is more comprehensive and a better indicator of risks for cardiovascular disease compared to a normal cholesterol test.

[DocToxin8]

Some good info here and thoughtfull speculation.

Oxidized LDL cholesterol form arterial plaque through an inflammatory process.
My own bloodwork from when I've drank about 10-12 eggs a day (on AAS as usual) showed normal total cholesterol, low HDL cholesterol.

I was in an experiment for people that had used AAS for over 5 years,
My heart (left ventricular wall) was within limits, but on the higher side.
My resting heart rate varies between 40-50.
My plaque in the carotid artery (in the neck) showed I had less sign of atherosclerosis than the average population.
Stopping blood supply to both my arms for 5 minutes to check the speed it took for oxygen saturation to normalize (another measure of circulation/atherosclerosis) was fine.

On top of the fact that genetics and training will influence this,
(I have close family members with high cholesterol (needing treatment) who don't use AAS)

Some Supplements that may help:
NAC (by stopping inflammation in the blood vessels perhaps)
Carnitine (same as NAC)
Taurine (lowers cholesterol in many studies)
75-100mg ED of aspirin: irreversible inhibitor of thromboxane A2, yet the dose is too low to inhibit production of prostacyclins. Prevents platelet aggregation which is involved in the plaque forming process)

Enjoy the feeling of an empty wallet!

[AR's King Silabolin]

Yeah, still in 2016 we have ppl advocating for atkins fat diet despite all the evidence against it.

Some ppl here (and even in my gym) still think that eating fat makes them have more testosterone LOL.

There's nothing wrong in a bit of olive oil in your salad, but when you think that a one table spoon can have more calories than the whole salad, and you see ppl drowning the vegetables in it, you know that coronary disease is still going to continue as number death cause.

About the eggs you can believe whatever you want, personally prefer to look at facts and even try it on myself. About facts you just need to read this study:

From: Effect of dietary cholesterol on plasma cholesterol concentration in subjects following reduced fat, high fibre diet

<img src="http://forums.steroid.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165577"/>

Eggs. Im at work and only red under results. It stated clearly that there were no difference in ldl or total after 8 weeks for the 2 eggroup vs 7 egggroup.
Did u miss that one champ?

[Mr.BB]

[AR's King Silabolin]

Strange. If you read under results they say there are no variations after 8 weeks

[AR's King Silabolin]

Yes great experiences especially during a bulk, that's why I brought it up.

Helps keep bf low(er) on a bulk.

T3 works well with tren, nandrolone or tren/nandrolone on a cut or bulk.

It's much better and less expensive than any SARM or peptide.

How is the sides?...im a guy that cant stand clen. Looses my strength and mentally lost when doing it.

[hammerheart]

How is the sides?...im a guy that cant stand clen. Looses my strength and mentally lost when doing it.

My guess is your unfit for T3, clen works in similar manner. What are your natural levels?

[numbere]

How is the sides?...im a guy that cant stand clen. Looses my strength and mentally lost when doing it.

Ugh I hear you Sil, clen sides are terrible.

From my experience the most common side is headaches that are mainly brought on by not drinking enough fluids.

Don't ask why but drinking BCAAs makes the headaches dissappear.

Some experience diarrhea as it speeds up you digestion but this along with headaches are largely dose dependent.

Most of the sides are positive; You build up less fat, have more energy and it makes better sex.

Plus when you have a BM when taking gear and t3 only a few little rabbit turds will come out lol.

[hammerheart]

Don't ask why but drinking BCAAs makes the headaches dissappear.

They interfere with tryphophan entry in the brain via uptake competition at the Large Amino Acids transporter. Anti-migraine meds are basically serotonin antagonists.

[hammerheart]

That means you can get EITHER a reduction or an increase between -23% up to +49%, according to this study. But the MEAN concentrations actually show a decrease. It seems rather individual.