Frontloading test e with prop?

[Naturallyhard]

First 4 weeks test prop 35 mg ed with 500 mg of test e so I will be getting 750 mg of test my first 4 weeks and then just stop prop for the rest of my cycle?
Week 1-4 prop Ed 35 mg 250 mg of test e Tues/thurs! 750 mg
Week 4-10 test e 250 mg tues/thur 500 mg total!
Will this be better than trying switch esters mid cycle?

[The God Himself]

Test E takes some time to kick in, so starting your cycle with test prop in the first weeks will make you feel the effects faster. This is a common approach, when you use long esters you can kick start your cycle with a shorter ester of the same compound (or a different compound, if you know what you're doing).
In the first 2 weeks, you're actually not getting 750 mg of test, enanthate takes some time to be utilized and you'll be feeling prop mostly. In the first two weeks you can use a higher amount of prop and taper it down in week 2-4 as you start to feel enanthate kicking in.

[Naturallyhard]

Test E takes some time to kick in, so starting your cycle with test prop in the first weeks will make you feel the effects faster. This is a common approach, when you use long esters you can kick start your cycle with a shorter ester of the same compound (or a different compound, if you know what you're doing).
In the first 2 weeks, you're actually not getting 750 mg of test, enanthate takes some time to be utilized and you'll be feeling prop mostly. In the first two weeks you can use a higher amount of prop and taper it down in week 2-4 as you start to feel enanthate kicking in.

So what about my plan
Test prop 35 mg Ed with e 250 mg twice a week? Someone told me it will stall my gains due to higher myostin? Really depressed don’t wanna miss out on gains!

[The God Himself]

So what about my plan
Test prop 35 mg Ed with e 250 mg twice a week? Someone told me it will stall my gains due to higher myostin? Really depressed don’t wanna miss out on gains!

Thats utter bullshit, switching esters have nothing to do with myostatin.
For first two weeks use prop at 50 mg ed and taper down to 35 mg ed for another two weeks before dropping it. Keep enanthate at 250 mg e3.5d whole time. Thats what I would do, if I were to frontload it.

[Naturallyhard]

Thats utter bullshit, switching esters have nothing to do with myostatin.
For first two weeks use prop at 50 mg ed and taper down to 35 mg ed for another two weeks before dropping it. Keep enanthate at 250 mg e3.5d whole time. Thats what I would do, if I were to frontload it.

Sounds like a plan may I ask why to lower prop dosage instead of just keeping it the same at 35 mg?

[The God Himself]

Sounds like a plan may I ask why to lower prop dosage instead of just keeping it the same at 35 mg?

It will take some time for enanthate to reach peak levels until so you’ll use prop at highrr dosage. As the test e kicks in, no need to keep prop that high if you don’t want to use test at more than 500 mg pw.
You should start test e from first week, not from week 4.

[GearHeaded]

I'll simplify this, but also state what I believe will give you the most gains.
run 1000mg of test E per week from day 1
run 350mg of test prop per week from day 1 until week 4 (100mg EOD)

done. don't really need to over complicate Testosterone

[Naturallyhard]

I'll simplify this, but also state what I believe will give you the most gains.
run 1000mg of test E per week from day 1
run 350mg of test prop per week from day 1 until week 4 (100mg EOD)

done. don't really need to over complicate Testosterone

Hey man thanks but I only have enough test to run 500 mg of e a week
So it will look like this test prop 250 mg a week with 500 mg of e a week week 1-4
Test e 500mg every week 4-10
My question is will I have gains?

[Naturallyhard]

Hey man thanks but I only have enough test to run 500 mg of e a week
So it will look like this test prop 250 mg a week with 500 mg of e a week week 1-4
Test e 500mg every week 4-10
My question is will I have gains?

Bump!

[Windex]

Hey man thanks but I only have enough test to run 500 mg of e a week
So it will look like this test prop 250 mg a week with 500 mg of e a week week 1-4
Test e 500mg every week 4-10
My question is will I have gains?

Buy more test or buy another compound.

Gains are really going to be determined by diet, training, sleep, and lifestyle factors the drugs are the smallest part of the equation.

I ran two test only cycles at the beginning and found them to be a complete waste of time.

[Naturallyhard]

Buy more test or buy another compound.

Gains are really going to be determined by diet, training, sleep, and lifestyle factors the drugs are the smallest part of the equation.

I ran two test only cycles at the beginning and found them to be a complete waste of time.

My diet is if it fits your macros mostly steak,shakes,ground beef white rice,spaghetti,chicken breast!

[i_SLAM_cougars]

Hey man thanks but I only have enough test to run 500 mg of e a week
So it will look like this test prop 250 mg a week with 500 mg of e a week week 1-4
Test e 500mg every week 4-10
My question is will I have gains?

Throw 20-50mg of dbol a day in for weeks 1-4. Can’t really go wrong there

[Naturallyhard]

Throw 20-50mg of dbol a day in for weeks 1-4. Can’t really go wrong there

Don’t have money for Dbol but will kickstarting 500 mg of test e with 250 mg of prop for 4 weeks work will I miss out on gains? people aren’t being clear with me and someone told me I will stall my gains using to much test in the first 4 weeks man am I getting sad! Is my plan gonna work?

[i_SLAM_cougars]

Don’t have money for Dbol but will kickstarting 500 mg of test e with 250 mg of prop for 4 weeks work will I miss out on gains? people aren’t being clear with me and someone told me I will stall my gains using to much test in the first 4 weeks man am I getting sad! Is my plan gonna work?

Why don’t you just wait until you have more on hand. What if you drop your only vial of test on the ground come week 6? You’re gonna be sad.

[GearHeaded]

Hey man thanks but I only have enough test to run 500 mg of e a week
So it will look like this test prop 250 mg a week with 500 mg of e a week week 1-4
Test e 500mg every week 4-10
My question is will I have gains?

500 mg of test only per week is going to provide you with some androgen and estrogen effects, very little anabolic effects. the gains you get will be a little bit of puff and muscle fullness , but will not be putting on very much actual muscle tissue or solid gains.
wither you front load or not , I'd not expect much out of this cycle

[Naturallyhard]

500 mg of test only per week is going to provide you with some androgen and estrogen effects, very little anabolic effects. the gains you get will be a little bit of puff and muscle fullness , but will not be putting on very much actual muscle tissue or solid gains.
wither you front load or not , I'd not expect much out of this cycle

I have seen some pretty solid transformation on 500 mg of test!
My stats deadlift 560
Squat 405
Bench 235
Weight 235 height 6,3

[GearHeaded]

I have seen some pretty solid transformation on 500 mg of test!

those 'solid transformations' generally occur in someone who is fairly untrained to begin with.. they get on a little test only cycle and thats their motivation to actually train and diet consistently for once in their life.
OR. they had naturally very low test levels to begin with and getting on a test only cycle resulted in some super compensating effects. but for most guys that are already well trained, know how to eat, been at this for years, etc.. 500mg of test isn't going to do a whole lot (thats why that dose is generally a TRT or cruise dose for a lot of guys when off cycle)

if 500mg of test transforms you, its likely because you were fairly untrained newb to begin with

^ edit - absolutely nothing wrong with that of course. even if your a new lifter if some test can help you maximize your gains, then good

[Naturallyhard]

Gear head I got work with what I got on 10 week cycle my original plan as stated above is to run
250 mg of prop a week for the first 4 weeks on top of 500 mg
Week 1-4 250 mg of prop
Week 1-10 test e
And 50 mg of proviron a day
Will my cycle be as good if I just did test e for 500 mg?

[jack7]

I'll simplify this, but also state what I believe will give you the most gains.
run 1000mg of test E per week from day 1
run 350mg of test prop per week from day 1 until week 4 (100mg EOD)

done. don't really need to over complicate Testosterone

Was this until week 1 to 4 only...
If so when to change it and with what ester of test and dosage shld be taken fr the rest of the weeks in a 16 or 18 week cycle ..

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[HoldMyBeer]

I don't think front loading is necessary personally, but i completely understand why people want to do it.
I calculated stuff for you because using different esters makes it complicated since the longer ones need to build up
If you want to do 500mg test c/e per week:
First (Monday) and second pin (Thursday) is 400mg
Then 250 from then on
I'm attaching 2 graphs, one is no front loading the other is w the front loading. W the front loading your levels will be stable at day "3.5" (which would be your second pin on the first Thursday of your cycle) Makes things much more simple using the same ester
Good luck

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[Naturallyhard]

I have test prop and wanted to know if my schedule will work
I don’t know how to read graphs? And like I said my plan is week 1-4 test prop 35 mg Ed
Week 1-10 test 250 mg tues/thurs

[HoldMyBeer]

I have test prop and wanted to know if my schedule will work
I don’t know how to read graphs? And like I said my plan is week 1-4 test prop 35 mg Ed
Week 1-10 test 250 mg tues/thurs

In my opinion, the purpose of front loading:
It takes time for long esters to build up in the system, so you run a higher dose at the start of the cycle to compensate. What you are doing is not that. You're just running higher amounts and getting big spikes in the beginning.
I don't blame you, "more is better" is always enticing
If you want to front load and have nice stable levels, do it the way I suggested in my previous post.
Those graphs, the x axis is time (in days, confusing because they have half day increments I know). And the y axis is the amount of mg of aas built up in the system
A lot of very credible people in the bodybuilding community strongly advocate for lean red meat in the diet. It just takes longer to digest so I personally keep it away from training times during the day
I personally do not think using prop at the start of your cycle will have any benefit and will only send your hormones on a roller coaster (as you can see in your graph). Adding an oral MIGHT. But you're needlessly over complicating things. You have a lot to learn and plenty of time to do it. Just make sure you have a successful first cycle and keep it simple.
Good luck

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[Naturallyhard]

In my opinion, the purpose of front loading:
It takes time for long esters to build up in the system, so you run a higher dose at the start of the cycle to compensate. What you are doing is not that. You're just running higher amounts and getting big spikes in the beginning.
I don't blame you, "more is better" is always enticing
If you want to front load and have nice stable levels, do it the way I suggested in my previous post.
Those graphs, the x axis is time (in days, confusing because they have half day increments I know). And the y axis is the amount of mg of aas built up in the system
A lot of very credible people in the bodybuilding community strongly advocate for lean red meat in the diet. It just takes longer to digest so I personally keep it away from training times during the day
I personally do not think using prop at the start of your cycle will have any benefit and will only send your hormones on a roller coaster (as you can see in your graph). Adding an oral MIGHT. But you're needlessly over complicating things. You have a lot to learn and plenty of time to do it. Just make sure you have a successful first cycle and keep it simple.
Good luck

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Wait a minute one guy told me that it would result in more gains to kickstart with prop rather than just do 500 mg of a week so what is it? Like I said I don’t have enough test or money to frontload! I have 4 vials 2 prop 2 e!

[HoldMyBeer]

Wait a minute one guy told me that it would result in more gains to kickstart with prop rather than just do 500 mg of a week so what is it? Like I said I don’t have enough test or money to frontload! I have 4 vials 2 prop 2 e!

You already bought them? mAh bad.
There are mixed opinons on front loading. Logically it does, but I think the difference is insignificant vs the roller coaster you will send your hormones on.
I'm going to assume each vial is 10ml, the E is 250mg/ml, and prop is 100mg/ml
If I had 2 vials of each, I would do 400 E / week (split twice a week) for 12 weeks and 150 prop (split ED or EOD) for 12 weeks.
However, if that's all you have (there's way too many replies to read them all, so I'm sorry if I missed info or someone already said it), you're in dangerous territory. If you don't have enough money or sources to get more than what you have on hand. What if you need an AI? What if you need to get blood work done? Etc etc.
Front load vs not vs whatever, it doesn't really matter too much. If your levels are high, you train hard and eat right, you will make gains. It's more important that you plan for contingencies and don't end up w gyno, have mental health issues because your hormones are all fucked up, or numerous other things. I'm assuming you're not TrT after, do you have everything you need for PCT?
My point is, running a cycle is more than just what compounds to run and at what levels.
Good luck

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[GearHeaded]

Wait a minute one guy told me that it would result in more gains to kickstart with prop rather than just do 500 mg of a week so what is it? Like I said I don’t have enough test or money to frontload! I have 4 vials 2 prop 2 e!

the amount of gains your going to be getting, wither you front load or not is somewhat relative. its not going to matter much.. you only have about 6000mg TOTAL of testosterone and you say you can't get more. so theres really only so much your going to get out of that low amount of test you have on hand (I'll go through that much test in a couple weeks if I'm blasting a test cycle).

but if you want to run low doses of only test for a moderate duration, thats totally fine and will definitely help you recover and add some glycogen and water to the muscle cells.. but again, actual solid gains in muscle tissue from that little bit of test isn't going to be much either way, so again front load or not won't make a big difference when your only talking limited total gains in the first place

[Windex]

If it fits your macros diet + 500 mg of Test + frontload of Prop (or not it's irrelevant) = mediocre cycle experience.

There's all kinds of situations where you will get burned on your first cycle if all you buy is the bare minimum.

If you can't afford the two cheapest steroids (Dbol and Test) then you really shouldn't be cycling as this is not a cheap lifestyle.

[Naturallyhard]

If it fits your macros diet + 500 mg of Test + frontload of Prop (or not it's irrelevant) = mediocre cycle experience.

There's all kinds of situations where you will get burned on your first cycle if all you buy is the bare minimum.

If you can't afford the two cheapest steroids (Dbol and Test) then you really shouldn't be cycling as this is not a cheap lifestyle.

I can afford Dbol but don’t wanna mess around with orals because I heard they can cause bid side effects and heard Dbol is very dangerous!

[Littlearnie]

I can afford Dbol but don’t wanna mess around with orals because I heard they can cause bid side effects and heard Dbol is very dangerous!

Sounds like you need to go and do a lot of reading...

And red meat bad for BB :/ , guess you gotta read up on nutrition too...

[Naturallyhard]

Sounds like you need to go and do a lot of reading...

And red meat bad for BB :/ , guess you gotta read up on nutrition too...

Man I have done so much reading and so many different answers one person tells me red meat is fatty and bad for you cholesterol another person tells me it’s the key to gains! One person tells me I will se no results of test another says my body will rapidly change since my test is already lowish boy is life is depression wish it was a easy as going to the store buying a magic pill and boom your big!

[Littlearnie]

Man I have done so much reading and so many different answers one person tells me red meat is fatty and bad for you cholesterol another person tells me it’s the key to gains! One person tells me I will se no results of test another says my body will rapidly change since my test is already lowish boy is life is depression wish it was a easy as going to the store buying a magic pill and boom your big!

Haha, a magic pill would be nice, I guess dbols the closest we got

There’s lots of conflicting information for two reasons, 1 we are not all the same, no 1 way fits all! And 2nd, mainly because most people are fucking retards!

One thing I will tell you for sure(or at least what I’ve come to realise), when it comes to steroids gearhead is your man, listen to him over all. He is god and we are he’s disciples...

GL

[HoldMyBeer]

Sounds like you need to go and do a lot of reading...

And red meat bad for BB :/ , guess you gotta read up on nutrition too...

Red meat is bad for what now?

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[Littlearnie]

Red meat is bad for what now?

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just a lot of red meat which I thought was bad for bodybuilding

[i_SLAM_cougars]

I can afford Dbol but don’t wanna mess around with orals because I heard they can cause bid side effects and heard Dbol is very dangerous!

You heard wrong, but it’s a common misconception so no worries. It’s probably less harsh on your body that eating 600g of protein. That’s a waste fella. If you were on everything under the sun that might be practical, but all you’re doing is putting unnecessary strain on your kidneys.

[Naturallyhard]

[QUOTE=i_SLAM_cougars;7467346]You heard wrong, but it’s a common misconception so no worries. It’s probably less harsh on your body that eating 600g of protein. That’s a waste fella. If you were on everything under the sun that might be practical, but all you’re doing is putting unnecessary strain on your kidneys.[/QUOTE
Hey man but can you answer my question directly
Will taking test prop 250 mg Ew for first 4 weeks of cycle on top of 500 mg of test e a week yield best results or would I see better results just on test e 500 mg a week?

[i_SLAM_cougars]

Hey man but can you answer my question directly
Will taking test prop 250 mg Ew for first 4 weeks of cycle on top of 500 mg of test e a week yield best results or would I see better results just on test e 500 mg a week?

Front loading with the prop will grant you the better results. Probably only to a small degree, but yes.

[Naturallyhard]

If it fits your macros diet + 500 mg of Test + frontload of Prop (or not it's irrelevant) = mediocre cycle experience.

There's all kinds of situations where you will get burned on your first cycle if all you buy is the bare minimum.

If you can't afford the two cheapest steroids (Dbol and Test) then you really shouldn't be cycling as this is not a cheap lifestyle.

I used to eat skinless chicken breast and white rice but it was to low in cals so switched to skin chicken breast I eat at least 2g of protein a day anywhere from 400 grams to 600 grams, and my goal is to gain weight I don’t eat any junk food just a lot of red meat which I thought was bad for bodybuilding and white rice or spaghetti with brussel sprouts! No candy,chips,pastry’s etc!

[Windex]

I used to eat skinless chicken breast and white rice but it was to low in cals so switched to skin chicken breast I eat at least 2g of protein a day anywhere from 400 grams to 600 grams, and my goal is to gain weight I don’t eat any junk food just a lot of red meat which I thought was bad for bodybuilding and white rice or spaghetti with brussel sprouts! No candy,chips,pastry’s etc!

600grams of protein is beyond excessive. All your doing is using protein as a very expensive fuel source at that point.

Save some money, buy more gear, and use the time to educate yourself further on nutrition and training.

[Windex]

To answer your question about Prop it doesn't matter whether or not you use it. The frontload is not going to what makes your cycle successful.

It's not like frontloading will add an extra 1 on or muscle gain to your cycle - that's not how steroids work. Every single person is different .

The three things that matter the most is sleep, training and diet. from your description of your meal plan, it needs a lot of work.

[Naturallyhard]

To answer your question about Prop it doesn't matter whether or not you use it. The frontload is not going to what makes your cycle successful.

It's not like frontloading will add an extra 1 on or muscle gain to your cycle - that's not how steroids work. Every single person is different .

The three things that matter the most is sleep, training and diet. from your description of your meal plan, it needs a lot of work.

Well why is my meal plan bad I hit my macros for the day what am I doing wrong? Just because I said red meat was bad doesn’t mean I don’t eat it like is said I eat several steaks every day or other day white rice rice or potatoes! I meal prep chicken breast and white rice for a snack but it comes out to like 250 cals when my tdee is 4,000 calories!

[kynetguy]

It’s fun to come back after a long break and see the same conversations.

Front loading can help on longer esthers. But also remember, that you are going to have elevated test for a week or so after your last injection as the esters finish breaking down and releasing their compounds.

So even after your last injections, you need to keep your workouts and diet completely on point for a week or two as you will still have compounds working in your favor.

Before I went on full time HRT, I was self treating with 50mg of prop EOD. I had about 1000 ml I had brewed, so it was readily available for me. When I saw an endocrinologist, I was totally upfront with what I was doing. He ordered labs. My test was at slightly over 2300. Yes. 2300! I am 5’10 and about 235lbs.