Back after 1yr of natural like ya'll said, aas now

**m1514** · 10-28-2003, 07:38 PM

Well after consulting on this board a year ago it sounded best to go with 1 year more of natural lifting. Well, I gained only about 8 solid lbs and am now at 195-196. Ive lifted for 5 years now solid. Here are my measurements:

Bi's-16
Chest-41.5
waist-33
calves-16
quads-22
BF%-bout 8% (maybe u can tell me by the pic if its correct)
Im a hard gainer, extremely fast metabolism. I have been reading these boards forever, but I still dont feel comfortable making my own cycle. Can someone with vas experience help?

**FrkyBgStok** · 10-28-2003, 07:43 PM

nice work bro. i would recommend a test only cycle. 12 weeks at 400-500mg/week of test e. my $.02

**symatech** · 10-28-2003, 07:48 PM

im with frkybgstok. test only would be a good choice. good choice waiting a little bit longer.

**ColdSore** · 10-28-2003, 07:49 PM

i agree with frky...maybe throw in some d-bol to kick start it if your impatient...like me....but a test only or test/d-bol would be a great 1st cycle...

1-4 30mg d-bol
1-12 500mg enth

20 pounds easy on that cycle if your diet is good

**blackzero** · 10-28-2003, 07:51 PM

250mg every 4-5days is ok for the first time during the cycle eat eat and eat !!

dbols kick good for hard gainer you should try dbol deca for your next cycle

**FrkyBgStok** · 10-28-2003, 07:55 PM

black, you continue to advise people on a deca/dbol cycle, which incorrect. Also, 250mg is notenoughto make noticible gains. Come on bro.

**FrkyBgStok** · 10-28-2003, 07:57 PM

m, you look good, and IF you want to jumpstart a test only cycle, you could use dbol. I didn't and i made good gains, so its up to you, but a test only cycle is the way to go.

**D3m3nt3d** · 10-28-2003, 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by FrkyBgStok

black, you continue to advise people on a deca/dbol cycle, which incorrect. Also, 250mg is notenoughto make noticible gains. Come on bro.

While I do agree with you about deca/d-bol being bad advice, I have to respectfully disagree on 250mg/wk not being enough. I know quite a few people who have made great gains off it bro, some of them even used 250mg test more than one cycle. I guess it depends on the person, I believe BuyLongTerm said he had great results of 250mg/wk if I am not mistaken.

**BUYLONGTERM** · 10-28-2003, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by D3m3nt3d

While I do agree with you about deca/d-bol being bad advice, I have to respectfully disagree on 250mg/wk not being enough. I know quite a few people who have made great gains off it bro, some of them even used 250mg test more than one cycle. I guess it depends on the person, I believe BuyLongTerm said he had great results of 250mg/wk if I am not mistaken.

I did!! My bench went up 60+pds. The first 8 weeks of my cycle, I got great gains! I got most of my results in the first 8 weeks. I wanted to see how my body reacted to AS, and after 8 weeks I did up the dose. I agree with what others are saying. I would start with a cycle of TEST cyp or enan only.

If It were me and I could do it all over again, Id do the following.

Week 1-10 Test 250-400mg wk
Clomid

**BUYLONGTERM** · 10-28-2003, 08:31 PM

OH yeah, I'm glad you waited a year! You look fantastic, best of luck!!

**FrkyBgStok** · 10-28-2003, 08:35 PM

i appologize. i did not mean itwas a bad idea. i was always told it wasn't enough, so naturally, i am going to teach what i've been taught, so, 250mg might be enough.

**BUYLONGTERM** · 10-28-2003, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by FrkyBgStok

i appologize. i did not mean itwas a bad idea. i was always told it wasn't enough, so naturally, i am going to teach what i've been taught, so, 250mg might be enough.

No problem bro. Hell, most guys on here will agree with you. I just happened to see good results from a low dose, but thats me. Everyone is different, and hell, I could get flamed for suggesting a low dose. But, we also have to remember, I was also doing EQ as well.

**bigsd67** · 10-28-2003, 08:40 PM

i would still maybe up it to 350...just incase...one wouldnt want to end up shutting down test levels while not getting gains. also if the gear is underdosed like most mex gear then 350-400 would be good as it might be close to 250. frky, i've been taught the same as you, but i still believe that people should evaluate their body first too.

**BUYLONGTERM** · 10-28-2003, 08:44 PM

From what I have learned about myself, If I could of done it all over again, I would of started with 300-350mg. But along with EQ, I ran into NO sides. The only thing that screwed me up was the Winstrol. I had to stop early. To me, your first cycle is a learning exp.

**bigsd67** · 10-28-2003, 08:50 PM

hey buy, not to steal this thread, but how did winny mess you up...i had some issues with it as well

**BUYLONGTERM** · 10-28-2003, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by bigsd67

hey buy, not to steal this thread, but how did winny mess you up...i had some issues with it as well

Well, 4 weeks in and it destroyed my shoulders and wrists. It was so bad that I haven't lifted in 4 months. Though I know the GH has something to do with it as well. My biggest mistake was not starting Glucosamine early enough to help my joints.

How did it screw you up?

**taquipariu** · 10-28-2003, 09:41 PM

Sorry,no flame, but you look like you came from africa and stuff...

Add more mass!!!

**RC_0891** · 10-28-2003, 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by taquipariu

Sorry,no flame, but you look like you came from africa and stuff...

Add more mass!!!

Wow, that was an ignorant ass comment. First of all, thats a pretty lame ass stereotype you decided to use. Secondly, with 8 percent bodyfat and 16 inch biceps, he is both lean and well muscled. In fact, an 8 lb gain over one year is not bad at all. In fact, many people would LOVE to gain 8 lean lbs of mass in a year. If you could do that for ten years straight... Seriously you might not even need the juice yet. But if you opt too, start low.... 400 mgs of test a week. For second cycle maybe throw in some EQ. Anyways, best of luck bro. Don't listen to ignorance.

RC

**taquipariu** · 10-28-2003, 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by RC_0891

Wow, that was an ignorant ass comment. First of all, thats a pretty lame ass stereotype you decided to use. Secondly, with 8 percent bodyfat and 16 inch biceps, he is both lean and well muscled. In fact, an 8 lb gain over one year is not bad at all. In fact, many people would LOVE to gain 8 lean lbs of mass in a year. If you could do that for ten years straight... Seriously you might not even need the juice yet. But if you opt too, start low.... 400 mgs of test a week. For second cycle maybe throw in some EQ. Anyways, best of luck bro. Don't listen to ignorance.

RC

I see...
well nothing personal! Just about the picture I saw. It looks like you don´t get sarcacious comments. Not everyone in africa looks like that! Just figuring out why the hell did I lose my time!

Sorry, I haven´t meant what you thought!

**m1514** · 10-29-2003, 12:35 AM

Thanks a bunch guys. I started today with Test (Propionat QV100). Taking one other in tablet form, not sure what exactly it was called. It is pink with a slit down the middle, round and pink. Ive been looking on the board here, and I believe it is winny. Damn that needle hurt, I couldnt do it my self...boo hoo.

**TheMudMan** · 10-29-2003, 05:32 AM

Originally Posted by bigsd67

i would still maybe up it to 350...just incase...one wouldnt want to end up shutting down test levels while not getting gains. also if the gear is underdosed like most mex gear then 350-400 would be good as it might be close to 250. frky, i've been taught the same as you, but i still believe that people should evaluate their body first too.

I agree............. Not everyone can make the same gains as buy did on 250mg of test a week....... this is why it's common to see first time cycle users to be recommended to run 400mg per week. There are too many factors that can make the cycle unsuccessful as bigsd67 listed.

**D3m3nt3d** · 10-29-2003, 06:06 AM

Originally Posted by taquipariu

I see...
well nothing personal! Just about the picture I saw. It looks like you don´t get sarcacious comments. Not everyone in africa looks like that! Just figuring out why the hell did I lose my time!

Sorry, I haven´t meant what you thought!

...Just what in the fuck did you just say

**FrkyBgStok** · 10-29-2003, 06:13 AM

Originally Posted by D3m3nt3d

...Just what in the fuck did you just say

thats what i was thinking

**RussianVodka** · 10-29-2003, 09:04 AM

Right now I'm on HRT. Doing 200mg/week. Have some results. Can't say they are great, but my bench and squat improved

**Bigboy123** · 10-29-2003, 09:19 AM

Yeah go with a test E 500mgs a week, maybe through a little decca n there to...300mgs a week for 10 weeks. U will blow up if u never did a cycle before...

**RC_0891** · 10-29-2003, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by m1514

Thanks a bunch guys. I started today with Test (Propionat QV100). Taking one other in tablet form, not sure what exactly it was called. It is pink with a slit down the middle, round and pink. Ive been looking on the board here, and I believe it is winny. Damn that needle hurt, I couldnt do it my self...boo hoo.

Did anyone else notice he doesnt know what he is taking? Um... I think you should explain to us your cycle plans... If you really have any c onsidering you dont know what you are taking. Pink sounds like dbol.

RC

**m1514** · 10-29-2003, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by RC_0891

Did anyone else notice he doesnt know what he is taking? Um... I think you should explain to us your cycle plans... If you really have any c onsidering you dont know what you are taking. Pink sounds like dbol.

RC

The pink is Winny.

**m1514** · 10-29-2003, 12:05 PM

Do I need any anti e's?

**DocHoliday** · 10-29-2003, 12:30 PM

m1514,

Well with people saying 250mg a week is enough, that's can be true and it can't. Like everyone can agree on, it depends on the person.

However 350-450mg ew is a good estimate to be safe. This way the dosage is high enough to boost past your own test levels without shutting you down, and not too high as to advance the bodies AR receptors to high tolerance.

Now, as for you taking Test Propionate, you should purchase some Enanthate or Cypionate. Use the Propionate to elevate test levels quick, but start using the longer acting esters soon. Then you won't have to inject as often as every day as you do with Prop.

Hopefully you can make a switch. Also, I would stop on the Winny.

Something like this is what you should work on switching to:

wk 1-10(12) Test Cyp/ or Enanthate 400mg ew
wk 12-15 PCT if with Enanthate
OR wk 13-16 if with Cypionate.

If you want some vascular and cutting effects that winny would provide, but something a little more adequate for a first timer go with EQ.

You've done it right in the past, waited a year, now don't go messin up.

By the way, no homo, but you got some nice ass delts.

Good Luck,

doc

**DocHoliday** · 10-29-2003, 12:33 PM

Yes you need anti-e's.

Get enough Nolva on hand to run 20mg each day. Plus enough to run you into and through the PCT.

You'll need clomid also.

Day 1: 300mg Clomid/ 20mg Nolva
Day 2-11: 100mg Clomid/ 20mg Novla
Day 12-21: 50mg Clomid/ 20mg Nolva

**gtxben** · 10-29-2003, 12:52 PM

You look great M, let us know what you finally decide on and give us some feedback for further references.

**m1514** · 10-29-2003, 04:18 PM

What if I took Test Cyp/ or Enanthate and the winny? So, the prop just boosts my test levels fast, but doesnt last very long, thus the need for frequent injections. Is that right? Also, what is wrong with Winny for a newb? Ive already started yesterday on Prop and winny, but only have enough for one week. Is it ok to continue with what I have till the week is up and then switch to what Doc recommended. Thanks for all the help and putting up with all the questions. If I ask too much just tell me to shut up and do more research. Thanks.

PS. Should I feel real sore from the shot? It feels like I got hit with a bat.

**DocHoliday** · 10-29-2003, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by m1514

What if I took Test Cyp/ or Enanthate and the winny? So, the prop just boosts my test levels fast, but doesnt last very long, thus the need for frequent injections. Is that right? Also, what is wrong with Winny for a newb? Ive already started yesterday on Prop and winny, but only have enough for one week. Is it ok to continue with what I have till the week is up and then switch to what Doc recommended. Thanks for all the help and putting up with all the questions. If I ask too much just tell me to shut up and do more research. Thanks.

PS. Should I feel real sore from the shot? It feels like I got hit with a bat.

I wish you would have come back earlier and gotten all these questions knocked out of the way before you started.

Yes prop doesn't "last" as long in your system per say. The oil it is suspended it (esterified) is fast releasing. Where as cyp and enan are longer releasing. You only having enough for a week is not smart. Get some Enanthate pronto. Keep doing prop, and run it while injecting the enanthate. You'll want some over lap, 2-4 weeks.

You can run the winny, but you have a chance of hurting your joints. It dry's joints out. So if you had planned on running winny, you should have been loading up on joint supplements like Chondroitin, and Glucosamine, which respectively take about a month to accumulate in your body.

Find more TEST. If you have easier access to prop, then fuck it, stick with it, just get used to sticking yourself.

Now, to make those injections hurt less. Get a cup of water and nuke it. Drop the test vial into the warm water. The oil is now warm, so it will be easy to withdraw and to inject, and thus easier to be absorbed into the muscle.
Also, inject slowly, do not rush it. Also the slower the needle enters the less pain after.

After you inject. Deeply, and aggressively massage that muscle from the site, outward in all directions for at least 5 minutes. Do that a couple of times a day. It's also best to do shots in the morning after a stretch and hot shower. You're cleaner that way too.

Massage a few times daily, then massage before sleep, and when you wake up. I'm bad at massaging the next day, and am usually sore at night the next day. So massaging continuously is a small price to pay for tip top muscles.

Good luck in finding more test. AND anti-e's. http:/liqua-solutions.com

Doc

**Methuselah** · 10-29-2003, 08:31 PM

I really like a good test/deca stack with an oral like anavar. Something about that deca makes my back and forearms turn into big slabs of hardend steel.

No less than 400/400 of pharm grade and a little anavar goes a long way if you can afford it; and if you can eat enough to keep up with the cycle.

**Go Time** · 10-30-2003, 11:41 AM

Am I the only one that thinks he looks a hell of a lot lower than 8% bf in those pics? Nice job M and keep up the good work! Good luck on your cycle.

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