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  1. #1
    Kärnfysikern's Avatar
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    Space Exploration

    Man if something pisses me of is the fact that no nation has a clear cut plan to get to mars yet!!

    What the fuck has happened to the drive to explore that the human race used to have? Seems like no one cares anymore for space.

    Imagine if the cash wasted on the iraq war would have been invested in a full blown project to get to mars
    Or if cash wasted on thousands of other stupid things was put into scientific development.

    I mean if something like fusion power got more funding Im sure we would have it by now. But every goverment seems to suck on the oil companies dicks, or atleast that seems to be the case in the states and thats the only country that counts anyway

    Its like the whole word was just settled down and is to lasy to take risks anymore. It sux.

    Imagine if guys like Columbus had thought "why the hell should we cross the ocean, we might as hell sitt on our lasy asses here and chill"

  2. #2
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    How many here if you got the oppertunity would want to be on the first expedition to mars? Even if the risk of not surviving would be realy big? Like 30-40%???

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    How many here if you got the oppertunity would want to be on the first expedition to mars? Even if the risk of not surviving would be realy big? Like 30-40%???
    40%? i like those odds. I'd do it for that.

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    I hear ya bro, the world needs to stop worrying about wars and all that crap and start envesting in the space agency. They better get on the stick about goin to mars, because what are they gonna do when we start to majorly over populate the earth? We gotta go somewhere dont we? I totally agree with giving the money to nasa instead of wasting it on a pointless war. I wonder who would build the first gym on mars?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zex03
    I hear ya bro, the world needs to stop worrying about wars and all that crap and start envesting in the space agency. They better get on the stick about goin to mars, because what are they gonna do when we start to majorly over populate the earth? We gotta go somewhere dont we? I totally agree with giving the money to nasa instead of wasting it on a pointless war. I wonder who would build the first gym on mars?
    the gym would probably be one of the first things built. since mars has lower gravity, people that lived there would have sharply decreased bone density than ones on earth. unless of course they worked consistently with heavy weights. It is projected that due to the lesser gravity a person on the moon could live up to 150 years.. less gravity means stress on all of the body's systems, especially the circulatory system.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisAdams
    the gym would probably be one of the first things built. since mars has lower gravity, people that lived there would have sharply decreased bone density than ones on earth. unless of course they worked consistently with heavy weights. It is projected that due to the lesser gravity a person on the moon could live up to 150 years.. less gravity means stress on all of the body's systems, especially the circulatory system.
    It would be fun to bench on mars or the moon lol. Lots and lots of plates on every side

    Man I would love to be the first person to step onto mars. No matter how risky it would be I think I would do it. To travel where no man has ever been before is my ultimate dream. It always feels like I have been born a couple of hundrad years to late or to early

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    FUSION POWER? IF fusion power was in full force right now: We would be in a GLOBAL DEPRESSION.

    We have already been to MARS. What more do you want? You want us to do a TOTAL RECALL on it and make an atmosphere? Dude, that would cost more than the 50 billion we spent on IRAQ.

    Scientists are now skeptical if Mars is even large enough to contain an atmosphere.

    Who is gonna pay the TRILLIONS of dollars for MARS. Surely not any other country than the US. They all have their own problems. The US has other problems too than worrying about a project that will take 500 years.
    Think how much it would cost to make an atmosphere for Earth. Fuck, we cant even control the weather here.
    Trust me, there are SO MANY experiments going on that you dont know about. There is plenty or research going on. Just all secret shit. I could get into it but this isnt my thread and I think I already started a thread. Look up "BLACK OPS"

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    fuck mars. id rather see them do more in the ocean. that is completely unexplored in the grand scheme of things. its liveable underwater, as shown by the underwater station in florida. and with 40 billion a year going to NASA, and like 2 billion going to the NOAA, i think our problems of overpopulation could be solved in a few years.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bermich
    FUSION POWER? IF fusion power was in full force right now: We would be in a GLOBAL DEPRESSION.

    We have already been to MARS. What more do you want? You want us to do a TOTAL RECALL on it and make an atmosphere? Dude, that would cost more than the 50 billion we spent on IRAQ.

    Scientists are now skeptical if Mars is even large enough to contain an atmosphere.

    Who is gonna pay the TRILLIONS of dollars for MARS. Surely not any other country than the US. They all have their own problems. The US has other problems too than worrying about a project that will take 500 years.
    Think how much it would cost to make an atmosphere for Earth. Fuck, we cant even control the weather here.
    Trust me, there are SO MANY experiments going on that you dont know about. There is plenty or research going on. Just all secret shit. I could get into it but this isnt my thread and I think I already started a thread. Look up "BLACK OPS"
    Dont you think the unlimited energy we would get frome fusion could create entierly new industries? Nobody would ever have to care for how energy consuming something is. I can imagine it would create so many new jobs that the oil companies would soon be forgotten. Just imagine what could be done of no concern have to be about how energy consuming it is??

    So what if mars would cost a shitload of money? In the end it would be a profit. Im sure england had a shitload of problems back in the days but they still sent out ships everywhere to start colonies. Mars is the same fucking thing but just a bigger scale.
    Just the part about going to mars would push technology to its limits and all the new stuff we would have to invent would after a while surely find other purposes.
    Money spent on technological advacements(sp?) is never wasted money. But it might take a decade or so until it is profitable and mars would probably take half a century for it to be profitable in some way.

    Can you plz link me to some article where they are sceptical about if mars can contain a atmosphere?? If I dont remeber wrong even some of jupiters moons have atmosphere and they are alot smaller then Mars.

    I also aggre that we should spend more about oceanic research. But sooner or later we are going to have to leave this planet so we might as well prepare for it and to be honest going to Mars is alot more exciting then going underwater

  10. #10
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    Jupiter has a gaseus atmosphere. We just exploded Galileo into it a couple days ago. The satelite survived 6 years longer than expected even when it had defective parts.
    AND. It would take a decade for a probe to travel to mars.
    President bush already granted 10 billion dollars to GM motors to help fund the Hydrogen powered car.
    It cant be something that we just dive into.
    Too many people depend on petrolium and gas.
    If we just stopped using it all of a sudden, 75 percent of the population would be out of work.
    Once people are out of work, they cant by clothes and shoes and stupid things like scented candles and CDs and radios
    Retail stores lose money and fire employees who work in the retail industry. They cant afford their house payment. Soon houses are foreclosed on and then the construction industry starts feeling it.

    Soon it is a MAJOR recession and then a depression on a global scale because EVERYONE relies on gas right now.
    Sure it would clean the environment but we dont wanna go back to the depression.

    There are thousands of analysts who study the economy on a grand scale and Im sure they advise all the top leaders on how quickly to intergrate technology.
    Like I said. The technology already exists but incorporating it too quickly is devistating.

    Space exploration: Landing on the moon got us nowhere. Didnt help our country in anyway. It helped us launch a few hundred military satelites and helped the cell phone companies.

    China is over populated. America has SO MUCH land tha is unoccupied it is ridiculous. Just from CA to Nevada there is so much land.
    The solution to over population will soon be a limit on children. It goes against church and state but eventually it will weed its way into law.
    Higher taxes per child or something like that.
    Some countries already have population control like that.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by bermich
    Jupiter has a gaseus atmosphere. We just exploded Galileo into it a couple days ago. The satelite survived 6 years longer than expected even when it had defective parts.
    AND. It would take a decade for a probe to travel to mars.
    President bush already granted 10 billion dollars to GM motors to help fund the Hydrogen powered car.
    It cant be something that we just dive into.
    Too many people depend on petrolium and gas.
    If we just stopped using it all of a sudden, 75 percent of the population would be out of work.
    Once people are out of work, they cant by clothes and shoes and stupid things like scented candles and CDs and radios
    Retail stores lose money and fire employees who work in the retail industry. They cant afford their house payment. Soon houses are foreclosed on and then the construction industry starts feeling it.

    Soon it is a MAJOR recession and then a depression on a global scale because EVERYONE relies on gas right now.
    Sure it would clean the environment but we dont wanna go back to the depression.

    There are thousands of analysts who study the economy on a grand scale and Im sure they advise all the top leaders on how quickly to intergrate technology.
    Like I said. The technology already exists but incorporating it too quickly is devistating.

    Space exploration: Landing on the moon got us nowhere. Didnt help our country in anyway. It helped us launch a few hundred military satelites and helped the cell phone companies.

    China is over populated. America has SO MUCH land tha is unoccupied it is ridiculous. Just from CA to Nevada there is so much land.
    The solution to over population will soon be a limit on children. It goes against church and state but eventually it will weed its way into law.
    Higher taxes per child or something like that.
    Some countries already have population control like that.
    Yeah jupiter has a atmosphere, but so does one of its bigger moons(I think) if a tiny object like that can have a atmosphere I assume mars could also have one.
    I think the major reason the trip to the moon didnt do shit for the states is because you guys just went there and then didnt do anything with it. I hope they will soon focus on the moon as a launch pad for travels farter out in the solar system. Different kinds of research on a moon base would also be alot more efficent then on earth and more space would be aviable then on a space station because alot of the raw material needed to build a base exists on the moon already. I can bet my ass on that the first nation that goes to the moon and builds a base there will make profit of it in the long run.

    Even if fusion power got aviable today it would take alot of years before everything that relies on oil would be gone. I dont think the economy would crash, it might get worse for a while and then shoot upp again.
    Anyway I dont think politicians should decide about scientific breakthroughs. I hate and despise every attempt to hold back science!

  12. #12
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    Science is a dangerous thing. Once something is invented it can never be uninvented. Deadly toxins, nerve agents, etc.
    You also say war is a bad thing. Without war, we would not have half the inventions we have today.
    The fax machine, the cell phone, Duct tape, super glue, just along the simple house hold items.

    Its easier to build a space station in space than on the moon. If it is on the moon you have to deal with landing and taking off again. You have to deal with dust and slight gravity. More simple to have zero gs and have a mobile space station. It does not take that long to reach the moon so using the moon as a half way point is not effective.

    Trying to make the moon occupied in relation to domes and such is not feesable. It would be easier to make the deserts here on earth liveable. The moon has no access to water or oxegon. The deserts do.
    I know it seems fun to imagine colonizing a new planet and all the free space that it would provide, but living in a dome your entire life is not fun. Trying to make an atmosphere on a planet is not possible. In the movies it is. Sure, just melt the frozen ice and it will take care of everything.
    It took Millions of years for Earth to do that.
    And it rained NON STOP for centuries.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by bermich
    Science is a dangerous thing. Once something is invented it can never be uninvented. Deadly toxins, nerve agents, etc.
    You also say war is a bad thing. Without war, we would not have half the inventions we have today.
    The fax machine, the cell phone, Duct tape, super glue, just along the simple house hold items.

    Its easier to build a space station in space than on the moon. If it is on the moon you have to deal with landing and taking off again. You have to deal with dust and slight gravity. More simple to have zero gs and have a mobile space station. It does not take that long to reach the moon so using the moon as a half way point is not effective.

    Trying to make the moon occupied in relation to domes and such is not feesable. It would be easier to make the deserts here on earth liveable. The moon has no access to water or oxegon. The deserts do.
    I know it seems fun to imagine colonizing a new planet and all the free space that it would provide, but living in a dome your entire life is not fun. Trying to make an atmosphere on a planet is not possible. In the movies it is. Sure, just melt the frozen ice and it will take care of everything.
    It took Millions of years for Earth to do that.
    And it rained NON STOP for centuries.
    There is a great possibility that there is icq on the moon. If i remember correctly it was debated a while ago but I dont think they came to any real conclusion. The liftof and landing on moon would not be a big problem and it would be cheape to build a station there because of all the raw material that is on the moon compered to the cost of sending upp everything that is needed for a big space station.
    Im not against war, I am against pointless wars like the war in Iraq.
    I realise that it would be very expensive and take a very long time to create a atmosphere on mars. It would take so long that its almost pointless to do it. But what should we do instead? Should the human race just sit on this planet for eternity because going out into space is hard? We should go to mars just because mars is there, we should go to jupiters moons, to saturn. We should go everywhere its possible to go just because its hard and a big chalange(sp?).

  14. #14
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    The war in IRAQ is costing like 300 billion dollars.
    Know how much it cost to rebuild after 9-11? About 600 billion. After rebuilding new york, helping the airlines, helping the families, rebuilding the pentagon etc.
    Basically it is less expensive to do what we are doing than to wait for it to happen again.

    Eventually we will get to space. It is too early for us right now. Give it another 100 years when we get bored of earth. America still has about 10 more countries to take over politically first.
    Once one main entity controlls most of the world and has a foothold across the globe, then we can focus outward.

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    Bermich do you remember the show they had wether or not we (the US) landed on the moon or was it a conspiracy...due to the cold war between us and The former U.S.S.R...........I have my opinions I would like to hear yours

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mass junkie
    Bermich do you remember the show they had wether or not we (the US) landed on the moon or was it a conspiracy...due to the cold war between us and The former U.S.S.R...........I have my opinions I would like to hear yours

    Personaly I think we did get there. Here is a little food for thought. Your gaming PC's blow out NASA's mainframe in the 60's out of the water. If the government wanted us to be at Mars we would. It's not a matter of the technology, but a matter of funding and what rewards the government would reap. We went to the moon and what did the gov really get out of that deal? Sure the technology but that would of come about anyway for military purposes. Granted, I believe it would be eleventeen million times scientifically more rewarding to go to mars. Also, remember the space shuttle is a couple of decades old and out dated. Why because there is no more freaking money for them to build anything else. Simply put the gov doesn't give a dam. Where does all the money go? DEFENSE! Frankly the gov is pretty content with just getting shuttles and rockets up to put more satelites out. NASA has specs out the ying yang for new shuttles, but have they built them. No. Now they will probably have to after the recent tragedy. I have a few friends that are recent aerospace grads and Nasa funds a lot of research in my university, and they tell me that they are having the hardest times finding decent work. If you dont get hired by Nasa your basically scraping the bottom of the bucket. I find that a shame to tell you the truth. I would love to see us get to Mars, but it just isn't financialy feasible at the moment. Look at space toursim at the moment, it costs about 20 million to go up with the Russians for crying out loud (and that is a hand out). Hell, Russia has been even selling thier subs. Even when a real space tourism agency does establish itself and it costs lets say 1 mil it will only be affordable for the very very rich which is a small percentage of us. How many us have a mil to throw around for a short uncomfortable trip with shitty food? Most people aren't that enthused by that thought. The 20 mil it's going for today could be spent buying yourself a small private island (which most do-real estate that is). Think about this the armed services just recieved a new fighter, the Joint Strike Fighter, why? All the other birds are out dated. It's sad but it all boils down to money. I do feel even worse for oceanic research. Our oceans are the largest enviroment on the planet and by far the least explored maybe about 2%. As far as the whole oil deal I completey agree with Bermich. You simply can't dump technology like that onto the market. Basically the whole world economy would crash. Once again the technology has been around for years but that type of thing has to be slowly introduced into the market and slowly phase out our oil dependency. Marcoeconomics is a delicate thing. (Buisness Major -shrugs-) Ahh you have to love all the discovery channels. Ok I'm done ranting. dayum I'm bored and my girl is asleep.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by bermich
    The war in IRAQ is costing like 300 billion dollars.
    Know how much it cost to rebuild after 9-11? About 600 billion. After rebuilding new york, helping the airlines, helping the families, rebuilding the pentagon etc.
    Basically it is less expensive to do what we are doing than to wait for it to happen again.

    Eventually we will get to space. It is too early for us right now. Give it another 100 years when we get bored of earth. America still has about 10 more countries to take over politically first.
    Once one main entity controlls most of the world and has a foothold across the globe, then we can focus outward.
    Well I wont be alive in 100 years so I want it to happen now god damn it

    But hell yeah seems like atleast one country still has the balls to take some risks
    http://www.china.org.cn/english/RS/70550.htm

    http://edition.cnn.com/2003/TECH/spa...02/china.moon/

    Go china I hope they will manage to get a base working and I realy hope that it will make USA a little nervous so they also start to invest more in space.
    Fuck the best news I have heard in a long time.

  18. #18
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    Take a guess how much money is spent on DEFENSE.
    ONLY 3 PERCENT of the US income is spent on DEFENSE. During world war two, 10 percent was spent on defense. 10 percent is A LOT of money.
    5 percent when Reagon was in office. This is the lowest we have spent on defense in ages. If we spent 10 percent on defense again, DAMN we would be kicking ass.

    NASA: It was almost sold to JAPAN a while back if any of you knew that. US business's found out and helped fund NASA. They basically bought a piece of NASA to ensure JAPAN didnt get a hold of it.
    The way Japan would have bought it is the same way Japan owns half of the US golf courses and buildings.

    The moon landing conspiracy: Im sure we went. That is too big to fake. All of the NASA technicians and computer geeks would have to be in on it. That is thousands of regular guys who work at NASA being in on it without it leaking out.
    I have never seen it but I have been told that you can see the US flag and the plaque on the moon through the Griffith observatory telescope. If I personally saw it then I would use that as proof but everyone says it is up there so I believe it.
    Sure the astronauts would lie and keep it a secret but once again, I feel it would have been idiotic to try to fake something like that.
    I heard theories about how the dust and gravity dont relate to science and such but that is not my expertise.

    What else? Under water exploration: That is tricky due to imploding under certain amounts of atmospheres. Once again Im not sure how far down we can go before imploding. Also, it is pitch black down there.
    You could build cities down there but you need to worry about underwater currents, actual whales and sea creatures hitting the structures and such.
    The structures would just cause more polution to the oceans.
    Im not sure if it was just movie sci fi. If anyone knows please reply. Is there such a thing as LIQUID OXEGON?
    Able to breathe oxegon through ligquid. That would allow us to travel to any depth in the ocean as long as we could depressurize safely.

    Hell, the military probably already has subs filled with liquid oxegon with specially trained crew swimming around in the stuff inside their sub.


    Im sure we have a shuttle hiding somewhere in case of an EXTREME emergancy.

  19. #19
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    I never heard anything about China wanting to go to the moon.
    China is probably the only country the US should worry about. N Korea is a joke.

    The US military is so huge and awesome that it is capable of staging campaigns for 4 MAJOR wars on each corner of the globe simultaneously and still be able to defend its borders without the aid of other countries.

  20. #20
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    Here is a question for you Johan. Why doesnt Earths moon rotate. ALL of jupiters and mars moons rotate on axis while they orbit their planet.
    Earths moon is the only planetary satelite in space that has no axis and no rotation. Sure it orbits earth but the same spot is always facing Earth.

    Scientists did an experiment and simulated the same conditions in space with several spheres and bigger spheres to represent planets. After a few years, all the spheres began to rotate. All the spheres except for two. Two of these spheres the scientists took a piece out of one side. They simulated an asteroid collision affect. These half spheres however, did not form any rotation.
    Basically, anything round in shape in space that orbits a planet will soon begin to rotate on an axis.

    Does this mean: A: The moon is not round?
    B: The moon is not real
    C: An asteroid smashed into the far side of the moon creating half of a moon causing it to fall out of its rotation
    Didnt we have a modgule explode on the far side of the moon in the 70s? Astronauts circled around the dark side of the moon and we lost contact with them.
    Maybe ALIENS are hiding in their secret base behind the moon so they can observe us......
    Maybe their secret base is the moon and the US is in on it. Thats why they had to fake the moon landing so no one would find out about the alien moon base.

    But serously, no one has pictures of the other side of the moon. WHY JOHAN, WHY????????

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by bermich
    Here is a question for you Johan. Why doesnt Earths moon rotate. ALL of jupiters and mars moons rotate on axis while they orbit their planet.
    Earths moon is the only planetary satelite in space that has no axis and no rotation. Sure it orbits earth but the same spot is always facing Earth.

    Scientists did an experiment and simulated the same conditions in space with several spheres and bigger spheres to represent planets. After a few years, all the spheres began to rotate. All the spheres except for two. Two of these spheres the scientists took a piece out of one side. They simulated an asteroid collision affect. These half spheres however, did not form any rotation.
    Basically, anything round in shape in space that orbits a planet will soon begin to rotate on an axis.

    Does this mean: A: The moon is not round?
    B: The moon is not real
    C: An asteroid smashed into the far side of the moon creating half of a moon causing it to fall out of its rotation
    Didnt we have a modgule explode on the far side of the moon in the 70s? Astronauts circled around the dark side of the moon and we lost contact with them.
    Maybe ALIENS are hiding in their secret base behind the moon so they can observe us......
    Maybe their secret base is the moon and the US is in on it. Thats why they had to fake the moon landing so no one would find out about the alien moon base.

    But serously, no one has pictures of the other side of the moon. WHY JOHAN, WHY????????
    Thats pretty damn interesting.
    Maby back in the days they thought it was to much of a hazzle to send something just to take pics of the backside of the moon and no one has cared for the moon since then. I guess we will find out after the first chinese probe maps the whole thing

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by bermich
    Here is a question for you Johan. Why doesnt Earths moon rotate. ALL of jupiters and mars moons rotate on axis while they orbit their planet.
    Earths moon is the only planetary satelite in space that has no axis and no rotation. Sure it orbits earth but the same spot is always facing Earth.

    Scientists did an experiment and simulated the same conditions in space with several spheres and bigger spheres to represent planets. After a few years, all the spheres began to rotate. All the spheres except for two. Two of these spheres the scientists took a piece out of one side. They simulated an asteroid collision affect. These half spheres however, did not form any rotation.
    Basically, anything round in shape in space that orbits a planet will soon begin to rotate on an axis.

    Does this mean: A: The moon is not round?
    B: The moon is not real
    C: An asteroid smashed into the far side of the moon creating half of a moon causing it to fall out of its rotation
    Didnt we have a modgule explode on the far side of the moon in the 70s? Astronauts circled around the dark side of the moon and we lost contact with them.
    Maybe ALIENS are hiding in their secret base behind the moon so they can observe us......
    Maybe their secret base is the moon and the US is in on it. Thats why they had to fake the moon landing so no one would find out about the alien moon base.

    But serously, no one has pictures of the other side of the moon. WHY JOHAN, WHY????????
    http://www.faqs.org/faqs/astronomy/f...ection-19.html

    that explains it pretty well

  23. #23
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    Imagine if the cash wasted on the iraq war would have been invested in a full blown project to get to mars
    First our current President would need to be able to spell Mars. Second, there is no one there for said president to kill. Third, and most important, there is no way to use Mars to invoke fear and paranoia in the hearts of Americans therefore the pres. isn't interested. Mark

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    Thats a cool article Johan. I never actually considered that. I like my theory better though

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    Quote Originally Posted by bermich
    Take a guess how much money is spent on DEFENSE.
    ONLY 3 PERCENT of the US income is spent on DEFENSE. During world war two, 10 percent was spent on defense. 10 percent is A LOT of money.
    5 percent when Reagon was in office. This is the lowest we have spent on defense in ages. If we spent 10 percent on defense again, DAMN we would be kicking ass.
    Sorry bro, hate to break it to you, but the operational budget for the Department of Defense for Fiscal Year 2004 is 390 Billion dollars. This is 17.4% of the total federal government budget, which has a total of 2229 Billion dollars in outlays.

    http://w3.access.gpo.gov/usbudget/fy2004/budget.html

    We spend more money of defense (Percentage wise) than any other country on the planet. You also seem to think that we aren't kicking ass.... tell me what country would not fear a combo of aircraft carriers, marine transport ships, tank divisions, and stealth bombers near their borders!

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    I just read and heard Rumsfeld give his report on defense spending and it was at 3 percent and all that shit.
    He is either lying or talking about a totally different budget. Im gonna call him up and ask what he was talking about. Speed dial 4.
    I know we are kicking ass.... I love it

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    Quote Originally Posted by bermich
    I just read and heard Rumsfeld give his report on defense spending and it was at 3 percent and all that shit.
    He is either lying or talking about a totally different budget. Im gonna call him up and ask what he was talking about. Speed dial 4.
    I know we are kicking ass.... I love it

    Ahhh... OK, I know what you are talking about. The DoD budget was *increased* by 3 percent from last year.

    And yeah, it's a good feeling to know we can bloody the nose of any snot country that pisses us off.... it really is the embodiment of the American Spirit... we don't like to get bullied, so we make sure we are the biggest baddest mofos on the block, using both our brawn and our brains.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mfenske
    First our current President would need to be able to spell Mars. Second, there is no one there for said president to kill. Third, and most important, there is no way to use Mars to invoke fear and paranoia in the hearts of Americans therefore the pres. isn't interested. Mark

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    Quote Originally Posted by bermich
    The US military is so huge and awesome that it is capable of staging campaigns for 4 MAJOR wars on each corner of the globe simultaneously and still be able to defend its borders without the aid of other countries.
    This is not true. Or maybe it was at one time but not now. The US is DESPERATELY seeking help in Iraq. The truth is that if we were to fight a war in Korea every national guardsman in the US would be called to the front. our military is spread very thin right now.

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    MARS would be cool yes. But regretably I do not forsee it in our future. Times are tight right now, and with the economy the way it is I dont think NASA or any space agency for that matter will have anywhere near enough funding to even draw up a logical proposal for a maned trip to mars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by navydevildoc
    Sorry bro, hate to break it to you, but the operational budget for the Department of Defense for Fiscal Year 2004 is 390 Billion dollars. This is 17.4% of the total federal government budget, which has a total of 2229 Billion dollars in outlays.

    http://w3.access.gpo.gov/usbudget/fy2004/budget.html

    We spend more money of defense (Percentage wise) than any other country on the planet. You also seem to think that we aren't kicking ass.... tell me what country would not fear a combo of aircraft carriers, marine transport ships, tank divisions, and stealth bombers near their borders!

    He is right and the only gov agency that receives more money that defense is the department of health and human services which received 502 billion mean while Nasa only got 14.6 billion...

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    Quote Originally Posted by symatech
    This is not true. Or maybe it was at one time but not now. The US is DESPERATELY seeking help in Iraq. The truth is that if we were to fight a war in Korea every national guardsman in the US would be called to the front. our military is spread very thin right now.
    Seeking help in Iraq maybe politically as far as helping to police IRAQ. We really dont need any military help. There are about 46 countries helping us with IRAQ.

    Even Colin Powell, in a conference someone asked about N korea and Iraq at the same time. He said the US is capable of holding a war with IRAQ and N Korea at the same time and MORE. He emphasized the word MORE to where everyone in the room just shut up and actually realized the military might of the US.
    Its really not about needing the national gaurd. Its more about keeping them on alert while at war.
    Plus its not even about man power. Its also about our nuclear submarines, our satelites, our intelligence from satelites and other crap. Iraq doesnt need submarines, carriers, or jet fighters anymore. Iraq needs help with setting up a government.
    The US doesnt want to be seen as holding all the power in IRAQ. US wants to make it SEEM as though we are doing it for the world and let everyone be involved.
    Plus, it is hard to find ONE man in a country the size of California.

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    Just to let you know bermich the liquid oxygen thing is real... what it is is superoxygenated flourocarbon and the navy is using now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigol'legs
    Just to let you know bermich the liquid oxygen thing is real... what it is is superoxygenated flourocarbon and the navy is using now.

    Liquid oxygen has been around since the apollo missions.

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    Of course he said that. Do you think we would actually come out and admit that we couldnt fight a war against N korea if we wanted to? what do you think would happen if the US issued a statement like that. If we could handle that and more than we would have more regular army in Iraq. We would not be mobilizing so many reserves and national guardsmen.

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    [QUOTE]Seeking help in Iraq maybe politically as far as helping to police IRAQ. We really dont need any military help. There are about 46 countries helping us with IRAQ.

    Even Colin Powell, in a conference someone asked about N korea and Iraq at the same time. He said the US is capable of holding a war with IRAQ and N Korea at the same time and MORE. He emphasized the word MORE to where everyone in the room just shut up and actually realized the military might of the US.
    Its really not about needing the national gaurd. Its more about keeping them on alert while at war.
    Plus its not even about man power. Its also about our nuclear submarines, our satelites, our intelligence from satelites and other crap. Iraq doesnt need submarines, carriers, or jet fighters anymore. Iraq needs help with setting up a government.
    The US doesnt want to be seen as holding all the power in IRAQ. US wants to make it SEEM as though we are doing it for the world and let everyone be involved.
    Plus, it is hard to find ONE man in a country the size of California.QUOTE]

    That's right I saw on CNN the other day that Australia sent like 4 troops, and I think Poland is supplying like 3. There is probably a few British soldiers, a few Canadians, and then the other 40 some countries sent a guy. Bermich, just so you know, I am not attacking your facts and opinions just adding my own $.02 worth. I thought that we are in Iraq for weapons of mass destruction, no make that to destroy the OBVIOUS link between Hussein and Al Qaeda, oops I meant to bring democracy to the oppressed Iraqi people. What I am getting at is there is no good reason to be in Iraq and the Bush administration constantly issuing different fraudulent propaganda is just making matters worse. In an interview with Dubya's daddy back in 1993 he said that trying to oust Hussein and occupy Iraq would be costly and nearly impossible. What would make me happy is if Dubya would try to improve the state of the nation using intelligent strategies and policy instead of using fear, paranoia, and propaganda. Here's an interesting link for everyone. www.bushwatch.com What I really want is a peaceful and prosperous America. Mark

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    I know other countries arent contributing shit. I know we havent found weapons. I know the president used a lot of bullshit to go in. I know our troops are being killed every day over there.
    BUT. Dont you feel IRAQ has a better chance at a better future now?
    Dont you feel any of it was worth it regardless of our real intentions of going in there?

    Everyone says they hate the US because we dont know what is going on in the middle east and just worry about America. Finally we try to help (even if it is for our own benifift) and gain interest in the middle east and we are still hated...

    Anyway. This could go on forever since there are always two or three sides to everything.
    Im not arguing and I know it is turning out to be a circus fuck in the white house. I also know the other countries definition of support means sending one or two guys over.
    I do like hearing other peoples views on it without them getting all crazy. THANKS.

    YAY for space exploration....

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    Dont you feel IRAQ has a better chance at a better future now? Dont you feel any of it was worth it regardless of our real intentions of going in there?

    Everyone says they hate the US because we dont know what is going on in the middle east and just worry about America. Finally we try to help (even if it is for our own benifift) and gain interest in the middle east and we are still hated...

    Anyway. This could go on forever since there are always two or three sides to everything.
    Im not arguing and I know it is turning out to be a circus fuck in the white house. I also know the other countries definition of support means sending one or two guys over.
    I do like hearing other peoples views on it without them getting all crazy. THANKS.

    YAY for space exploration....
    Bermich, nice reply. I do feel that there is a chance for Iraq to get better, and I hope they do. You are right about us trying to help and still being hated. I do have a little to add to this. In my job I have the opportunity to see and hear many different perspectives on our world. About a week ago I had the chance to listen to a gentleman from Egypt. He is a Christian just for the sake of reference. He speaks Arabic and has read much of the Koran. He says that radical Islam fundamentalists hate us because we are not Muslims. He went on to say that they don't care if we try to help, they think we are evil for being different. With the influx of American culture the world over, they are even more angry because their children like the things we do. In short there is no good answer for this. I still can't understand why people just can't accept diversity and move on. I have had a great time chatting a little with you Bermich. Like you said it's nice to remain calm while talking about things like this. To end. Go Space!!! Mark

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