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  1. #1
    gibsonlpsd is offline Junior Member
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    I read this somehwere and want to know if it is true

    I was doing some reasearch about how to keep your gains that you get from your cycles after you discontinue your steroid use . This is what I came across to find:

    "Avoid an abrupt discontinuance of all steroids at the same time because the body would enter an immediate catabolic phase. The cortisone receptors will be free and in combination with the low testosterone and androgen levels a considerable loss of strength and mass, and an increase of fat and water, and often gynecomastia will occur. Gynecomastia is possible because the suddenly low androgen level shifts the relationship in favor of the estrogens which suddenly become the domineering hormone. Especially eye-catching is also the extreme listlessness to training or sex and a generally weak state of mind of several athletes. If not forced because of medical reasons never discontinue steroids 'cold turkey'."

    I wanted to know if this is true. See, I have never done a cycle before and I have finally got one set up and I was going to order my gear within the next couple of weeks. From the way I read it in this article, it seems like it is saying that once I start on steroids, I should never go off of them, except for when I go through my off time of 8-12 weeks. All I wanted to do was two cycles, one for bulking during this fall/winter and one more for cutting up over the spring/summer and those were the only two cycles I wanted to do. But if I have to continually do cycles throughout the rest of my life, then I just don't know.

  2. #2
    NJou812's Avatar
    NJou812 is offline Associate Member
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    Research PCT....don't even think about a cycle with out it.

  3. #3
    gibsonlpsd is offline Junior Member
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    I have. I already have a PCT set up:

    PCT

    Day 1 300mg Clomid/20mg Nolvadex
    Day 2-30 100mg Clomid/20mg Nolvadex
    Day 31-37 20mg Nolvadex

    But I am assuming that this statement I found already took into consideration that somebody would be doing PCT.

  4. #4
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    Basically its stating that you dont want to stop your cycle all at once, for example if you were doing a prop, fina,eq cycle you wouldn't want to stop all of these at wk 15. instead, end the tren at wk 10 eq at 12 and prop at 15 start pct 3 days after last shot.
    also It doesn't mean that you have to stay on for the rest of you life. but you must know that after time you will loose most if not all your gains. After completing the pct you can stay off for as long as you want.

    HM

  5. #5
    gibsonlpsd is offline Junior Member
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    ok...thanks for the help

  6. #6
    MIKE_XXL's Avatar
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    I disagree, you shoult stop everything all at once, and get yourself back up and running with PCT as quick as you can, tapparing does nothing, it does not slowely start you back up, if anything for PCT i would add ******* which i have done with great success...and reduce overall volume of training to compenstae for increased state of catabolism, include supplements such as creatine 10 gm after training anf glutamine 3 times a day at 10gm each and you should recover quickly with the plan you have out lined...good luck...XXL
    Last edited by MIKE_XXL; 08-26-2004 at 09:21 AM.
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  7. #7
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    F^ck insulin ! My boy died 5 days ago b/c of insulin. The otopsy(sp?) hasn't come back yet. But I know just before he died he was starting insulin. It can be good if used properly, but it can be deadly! My friend died and was buried on his 31st birthday.
    Mr. Louisiana R.I.P.

    In responce to your post. All those things will happen if PCT is not taken. But when taking nolva estrogen will not rise. Estrogen sides are fat gain and water weight. Loosing your mass will happen when your body doesn't have any test to run on. Taking PCT will "jump start" your nuts and enable your body to once again run on its own natural test, therefore you will not loose gains. Everyone is different and some people can take PCT and keep all gains(me ) but some people don't keep everything. Your best bet is to just fo PCT as required and don't worry about a thing.

  8. #8
    khurrams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gibsonlpsd
    I have. I already have a PCT set up:

    PCT

    Day 1 300mg Clomid/20mg Nolvadex
    Day 2-30 100mg Clomid/20mg Nolvadex
    Day 31-37 20mg Nolvadex

    But I am assuming that this statement I found already took into consideration that somebody would be doing PCT.
    Add HCG towards the second leg of your cycle but end it about a week before you start your PCT...The use of HCG makes the clomid in PCT really effective...my .02 cents

  9. #9
    MIKE_XXL's Avatar
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    I am sorry you friend died of insulin use, however in defense of slin many people have died from aspirin over dose and ephedrin over dose etc...as a matter of fact 150,000 people die each year from wrongful use of over the counter medications, does that mean we should ban everything and not use a single thing......i think not, so do not condemn insulin because of one isolated case...i do however understands it hits you deeper then me as he was your firend...XXL
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  10. #10
    Ntpadude is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by gibsonlpsd
    "Avoid an abrupt discontinuance of all steroids at the same time because the body would enter an immediate catabolic phase. The cortisone receptors will be free and in combination with the low testosterone and androgen levels a considerable loss of strength and mass, and an increase of fat and water, and often gynecomastia will occur. Gynecomastia is possible because the suddenly low androgen level shifts the relationship in favor of the estrogens which suddenly become the domineering hormone. Especially eye-catching is also the extreme listlessness to training or sex and a generally weak state of mind of several athletes. If not forced because of medical reasons never discontinue steroids 'cold turkey'."

    I wanted to know if this is true. See, I have never done a cycle before and I have finally got one set up and I was going to order my gear within the next couple of weeks. From the way I read it in this article, it seems like it is saying that once I start on steroids, I should never go off of them, except for when I go through my off time of 8-12 weeks. All I wanted to do was two cycles, one for bulking during this fall/winter and one more for cutting up over the spring/summer and those were the only two cycles I wanted to do. But if I have to continually do cycles throughout the rest of my life, then I just don't know.
    OK you partially understand the pit falls of steroid use . Although there is more modern thinking to use other drugs to counter act the bad side effects. This is why steroid users use clomid and nolva. These are estrogen blockers and also blocks estrogen from your HTPA which regulates your male hormone production. When estrogen is blocked from the HTPA, it help trigger a more rapid increase in testosterone production. Tribulus and tongkat ali are herbal products that can work with or take over after you finish clomid therapy as it blocks the HTPA from detecting both testosterone and estrogen combined and allow your testosterone levels to climb as much as 4.5 times as high as your body would normally allow.

    Clomid and nolva are used because they directly block the effects of estrogen. Other drugs reduce the amount of estrogen in your blood but these type of drugs cause your cholesterol to go thru the roof. Allowing your estrogen to climb along with the testosterone keeps your cholesterol and blood pressure lower. Nolva will directly prevent estrogen from affecting breast tissue but does a bad job in other body parts. Clomid protects the nut sack and HTPA itself the most but does a bad job in the breast tissue.

    Anyways modern thinking is that you use several other drugs to counter the bad effects of steroids . You might also need cholesterol lowering meds, high blood pressure meds, anti-acne meds, as well as the anti-estrogens.

  11. #11
    Doc Slin's Avatar
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    Whoa!, this kids never done roids and your telling him to jump on the band wagon and use Slin, easy, Hes got a long ass ways to go before he starts trying **** like that

  12. #12
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    That just describes what would happen if you quit cold turkey with no anti-e's or PCT. You say you've researched PCT so therefore you need not worry.

  13. #13
    MIKE_XXL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Slin
    Whoa!, this kids never done roids and your telling him to jump on the band wagon and use Slin, easy, Hes got a long ass ways to go before he starts trying **** like that
    Hey there Doc Slin, i said "...if anything for PCT i would add ****** which i have done with great success..." i did not tell him to use it, i told him it is an option that i have used with success...so chill out Bro...but in a way you are right, i should not have mentioned it in this post...so forget the slin...

    ...and to the guy asking a question, more then likly you will uses AS again after your initial 2 cycles, remember most of us here satred only wanting a little bit extra weight maybe 1 or 2 cycles, and yet most of us are still juicing...once you start it is hard to train without it...XXL
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigGenes
    Taking PCT will "jump start" your nuts and enable your body to once again run on its own natural test, therefore you will not loose gains. Everyone is different and some people can take PCT and keep all gains(me ) but some people don't keep everything. Your best bet is to just fo PCT as required and don't worry about a thing.
    Bro i cant agree with you there! think about it for one second, if you do pct and keep all the gains after a fiew months off then that meens you didn't reach your physical capacity(sp?) and let say you are 200lbs, you do your cycle and you gain 20lbs, your saying you keep it all?? well what will happen after only 3 more cycles? you will be at 280lbs, pleassssssse, you have a genetic limit your body can be at and thats the bottom lime. if you could keep all then alot of us would be on stage with Ronnie!
    thats why alot of peeps stay on year round becouse it helps to stay jacked up, plus it feels good to be on for that long

  15. #15
    Doc Slin's Avatar
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    Sorry mike, not trying to sound hostile.

  16. #16
    bluestrm is offline Associate Member
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    That excerpt you quoted is from the old school ways of tapering. They really didn't do **** for post cycle. They just weaned off the gear. Tapering does nothing good for you now that PCT has come to light.

  17. #17
    muff-chaser is offline Associate Member
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    jsut make sure u do your pct right and you will keep alot of your gains, dont just stop one day with no pct

  18. #18
    Anhydro78's Avatar
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    I think that article was advocating Pyramiding?????

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