Q's on starting a cycle

**Snrf** · 12-08-2004, 05:54 PM

Hi,
To start off with the basics; I'm 19, 6'2 and I've been working out hard for about the last 6 months, and before that I played rugby (I was a Prop if you know the game). I squat 200 kilos (440 pounds) and bench 120 kilos (265 pounds) and I want to try a first cycle. I got some questions first though obviously.

Is it worth my time to just take Deca -Durabolin (I can get it easier than anything else) by itself for 8 weeks? or is it not much good without stacking it with Testosterone Enanthate ? What kind of gains should I expect from just Deca vs stacking it with TE? Roughly what percentage of my gains will stay once I stop the cycle? I heard that you lose more of the mass you gain through TE and that you can keep most of the gains you make through Deca, is this true?

And if I add D-bol for say the first 4 weeks will those gains mostly stay after I stop the cycle?

If Deca is any good by itself I'd rather do that for my first cycle and if I decide to continue then I'll start getting into more advanced cycles.

I plan on taking 10-20 mg of Nolvadex during my Deca cycle, and Clomid after as recommended by most sites. Is there anything else I am missing? Sorry for all the questions, I just like to research what I'm doing beforehand. (You can't fault me for that)

**Iowa** · 12-08-2004, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by Snrfmaster

Hi,
To start off with the basics; I'm 19, I've been working out hard for about the last 6 months, and before that I played rugby (I was a Prop if you know the game). I squat 200 kilos (440 pounds) and bench 120 kilos (265 pounds) and I want to try a first cycle. I got some questions first though obviously.

Is it worth my time to just take Deca -Durabolin (I can get it easier than anything else) by itself for 8 weeks? or is it not much good without stacking it with Testosterone Enanthate ? What kind of gains should I expect from just Deca vs stacking it with TE? Roughly what percentage of my gains will stay once I stop the cycle? I heard that you lose more of the mass you gain through TE and that you can keep most of the gains you make through Deca, is this true?

And if I add D-bol for say the first 4 weeks will those gains mostly stay after I stop the cycle?

If Deca is any good by itself I'd rather do that for my first cycle and if I decide to continue then I'll start getting into more advanced cycles.

I plan on taking 10-20 mg of Nolvadex during my Deca cycle, and Clomid after as recommended by most sites. Is there anything else I am missing? Sorry for all the questions, I just like to research what I'm doing beforehand. (You can't fault me for that)

No offense, but I stopped reading after you said you were 19. Give it a few more years cause there is no way that youre done growing naturally

**Snrf** · 12-08-2004, 06:05 PM

Not to be rude, but I see quite a few guys in my University gym who use steroids , some of whom are only 18 or 19. I'm not talking about using heavily, I just haven't made any gains in some time and I'd like to know id Deca could help me put on some more muscle, I'm **** close to being about as big as I want to be for now. Could one 8 week cycle really be that bad for me?

**Gorgoroth_** · 12-08-2004, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by Snrfmaster

Not to be rude, but I see quite a few guys in my University gym who use steroids, some of whom are only 18 or 19. I'm not talking about using heavily, I just haven't made any gains in some time and I'd like to know id Deca could help me put on some more muscle, I'm **** close to being about as big as I want to be for now. Could one 8 week cycle really be that bad for me?

I'd use roids only as a last resort - have you tried messing around with your diet or trying different lifts or mixing things up in the gym ?

**Snrf** · 12-08-2004, 06:23 PM

Yeah, this is my last resort, I just want to gain some extra mass and get through this plateau. I'd appreciate the help if anyone can answer my questions.

I doubt I'll do another cycle if I can help it for a few years. I know people say they're addictive psychologically and back in high school when I was around 16 I used to do coke occasionally, but I never had a problem stopping even when my friends kept doing it, so I don't think I'l have a problem stopping. (And please don't lecture me on the coke, I wouldn't touch the stuff these days)

**IronRuffy** · 12-08-2004, 06:26 PM

19 isn't too bad, I would say that another year or so would pobably be better for your first cycle...And run your Test E betwwen 4-600 mg week and your deca about the same... Your going to hear alot about deca shutting you down hard... There are worse drugs out there.. Deca is a good one. Take some nolva w/ cycle and do some research on HCG for your cycle or pct... There is so much to learn here.. You could sit around here for the next year or so just soaking up info and be well prepared and confident about what cycle you choose to do... Best of luck...

**Iowa** · 12-08-2004, 06:28 PM

Well if youre set on doing it, then dont take deca by itself. Take test only at a low to moderate dose for 10 weeks or so

**Snrf** · 12-08-2004, 06:39 PM

What about aTE cycle only? What kind of gains would I expect from that?

**AG5678** · 12-08-2004, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by Iowa

Well if youre set on doing it, then dont take deca by itself. Take test only at a low to moderate dose for 10 weeks or so

Agree. when you take Deca you got to run some test and a TE only cycle ive heard about but i personally wouldn't do it.

**AG5678** · 12-08-2004, 07:06 PM

Also i don't believe your to young only if you have a discipline diet and attitude

**The Baron** · 12-08-2004, 07:51 PM

Forgive me for being a post-parrot but I agree you should wait 3-4 years at least. The preoccupation with how much you can lift tells me that you are not as knowledgeable about bodybuilding as I would prefer to see you, leading up to your first cycle. More important are your physical stats and your program up to this point.

There is NO WAY that you are anywhere near your natural peak if you have only been training for 6 months. It takes at least 3 years and I am talking about knowledgeable, intense, precise implementation of your training, nutrition, and recovery regimens. No offense because we all have to be newbies before we can be gurus, but you probably are not doing any of those three things knowledgeably.

At 19 you probably, believe it or not, have a bit of bone growth left. Don't shortchange yourself!

If you had begun training under the tutelage of somebody who really knew his stuff say 3-4 years ago, and you had been training, eating, and recovering properly and had let absolutely nothing: not sex, social life, religion, politics, education, family, hobbies, anything at all interfere, I would say MAYBE you MIGHT be ready for a cycle even at your tender age. Please reconsider. When somebody screws up with gear, especially a 19 year old, it brings a lot of heat down on the scene. The media rips us, our government rips us, and society rips us a new @sshole.

To answer your question, you must NOT do a cycle of deca only! It is quite anabolic but hardly androgenic at all. A combination of the two characteristics puts a lot of synergy into a cycle. With deca alone, you will soon find yourself suffering from the dreaded "deca dick" which is particularly demoralizing at your age. Deca knocks down yoru natural testosterone production but it does not replace it with any effective substitute.

Test-only can work fairly well. Lots of first cycles rely solely on a long acting test such as enanthate . It is a very versatile drug that can be used for bulking or even with some limitations for cutting, especially in combination with winstrol or something. But here's the thing... right now, your test levels are absolutely outrageously high. You are friggin sweating and peeing test. You would spend a lot of money simply replacing your naturally produced test with injected test. Exogenous testosterone also knocks out your endogenous (natural, from within the body) production. How efficient could that possibly be? Your T levels begin falling at around age 25 and that is an ideal time to do a first cycle provided you have been living the bodybuilding lifestyle with no punches pulled for several years.

Your first 4-5 months of serious training are a time of explosive gains. After the beginner's gains, things slow waaaaaay down and you usually figure a gain of 5 lbs a year is pretty decent after 6 months have passed. Optimize your training and particularly make sure your form is good and you are training the targeted muscle effectively on it's respective day. Be sure you are not overtraining, the most common mistake after poor lifting form. Be sure you are eating enough. Be sure you get at least and I do mean at least 8 hours SLEEP a night... not 8 hours of relaxation, laying down watching tv, reading yoruself to sleep but actual sleep. More is better. That is tough to do but essential especially for a youngster like you who is training intensely. Don't despair at your "plateau"... you have a lot more gains left in you if you get it together. And you must get it together anyway, if you are to maximize your gains when you finally do cross over to the dark side and stick that needle in your butt.

**IronRuffy** · 12-08-2004, 09:37 PM

Snrfmaster....Time to be a sponge buddy...Now is the time to start soaking, posts like the one Baron has left for ya is good advice...and there is alot more on this board.

**Snrf** · 12-09-2004, 05:45 AM

Yeah. I'd like to say that though I've only been training properly for 6 months I haven't had huge improvements like most gym newbies would, I'm a rugby player to begin with so my body was used to hard work and I was already big.

I dunno, I'm gonna hang around here for a while longer, I'll figure out whether or not to go for it. I still gotta cut for a while before I do it if I decide to, I'm around 18% bodyfat right now I think so I'll spend some time getting to 10% or so and then reconsider what I'm going to do.

**The Baron** · 12-09-2004, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by Snrfmaster

Yeah. I'd like to say that though I've only been training properly for 6 months I haven't had huge improvements like most gym newbies would, I'm a rugby player to begin with so my body was used to hard work and I was already big.

I dunno, I'm gonna hang around here for a while longer, I'll figure out whether or not to go for it. I still gotta cut for a while before I do it if I decide to, I'm around 18% bodyfat right now I think so I'll spend some time getting to 10% or so and then reconsider what I'm going to do.

I can see the bug has bit you, and I would bet a dollar to a donut you end up doing a cycle or two at some point in your life. Hang out here and keep learning stuff. Check out the faqs and stuff at the main page too, not just the forums. There is a veritable encyclopedia on nearly every AAS known to man. Learn stuff and educate yourself, and you will be able to make an informed decision when you are at a point to best benefit from gear. You won't find sources but you will know what you need and how to use it to best advantage and how to minimize or tolerate side effects. This stuff is all really fascinating to me, always has been, always will be. I love learning new stuff from the guys here who are on the cutting edge of things and I love absorbing their scholarly missives that go into the why and the how, and not just the what. If you sensibly decide to not mess with it just yet, you should still continue your "roid-ucation" here.