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03-04-2005, 01:20 AM #1
Swale vs. Pheedno (preferably Mods and Vets only)
Ok guys this thread is concerning Swale's and Pheedno's views on using an AI during PCT more specifically Arimidex . I, to put it frankly, have been going crazy trying to figure out which way to go. Now Swale (who is a Doctor) says this which I am quoting from his post. I only put the important paragraph of a long post.
Originally Posted by SWALE
Originally Posted by Pheedno
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03-04-2005, 03:02 AM #2Junior Member
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- Apr 2004
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big bump for this one, I have always wondered this myself, don't know why any mods or vets have not replied to this one, this is an important issue, come on guys
Good question..
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03-04-2005, 03:05 AM #3
I've gone with both theories, and although the swales method works well and is probably a little "safer" in terms of lipids, i still prefer pheedno's method.
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03-04-2005, 07:35 AM #4Originally Posted by bdtr
I think we need Swale and Pheedno to come into this thread and start arguing their points and we might get somewhere .
Oh and when you say in terms of lipids Swales is better and in terms of the estrogen rebound thing, what is the worst that can happen? As in if I do run the Arimidex all the way through and when Swale says "because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great." What exactly does he mean? What actually happens to you?
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03-04-2005, 07:41 AM #5
Sorry.. i'd love to help... but i've only been around a couple of years on the boards, although i mod at a couple ofther sites, and get alot of different imputs, you probably don't care.. I agree with BDTR, you get different results, but pheedno's is the one i follow, but i've only run 4 cycles now..
The answer to your every question
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03-04-2005, 07:47 AM #6
It has been shown in many studies that aromatase inhibitors such as arimidex , letro.... have been proven to help patients with low test get them back to an acceptable range.
At PCT time I'm more worried about recovering HPTA fuctions quickly rather then my lipid profile.......... but at the same time I'm also using Nolvadex to help with the problem of an AI causing a negative effect on my lipids.
I have done done PCT with Clomid/Nolva only once and Clomid/Nolva/AI/Zink/Tribulus 3 times and have always had an easier time with recovery that way. Also, I will only see a slight decrease in my sex drive durring PCT but I feel it was more from the low hormone level rather then because I was using an AI. If an AI was going to effect my sex drive I think I would see a decrease the 2 weeks prior to my cyclwhen I run my SERMS and AI and then again durring my cycle.Last edited by TheMudMan; 03-04-2005 at 07:52 AM.
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03-04-2005, 07:57 AM #7Originally Posted by spywizard
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03-04-2005, 08:00 AM #8Originally Posted by TheMudMan
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03-04-2005, 08:03 AM #9Originally Posted by Beefkake31
and dont let the post count and join date fool ya.. there are guys here that can post the crap out of me.. although my participation on this board is alot less than it used to be.. 100-200 posts per day..
1st hand experience, and medical training that alot of the mods, and vets are what is most important..
About 1-2 years ago.. newbies would ask for SwoleCat's only opinions.. and alot of bro's were offended.. no biggie..
Good questions so far..The answer to your every question
Rules
A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted
to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially
one exhibiting intolerance, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs.
If you get scammed by an UGL listed on this board or by another member here, it's all part of the game and learning experience for you,
we do not approve nor support any sources that may be listed on this site.
I will not do source checks for you, the peer review from other members should be enough to help you make a decision on your quest. Buyer beware.
Don't Let the Police kick your ass
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03-04-2005, 08:08 AM #10Originally Posted by spywizard
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03-04-2005, 08:10 AM #11Originally Posted by Beefkake31
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03-04-2005, 09:36 AM #12
Depends which you like, faster or safer.
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03-04-2005, 09:40 AM #13
Do all of your threads start with Mods or Vets only????
I am always safety first, gains second. I would lean more towards Swales. If anyone has heart concerns they should too. If your primary concern is gains, then go with Pheedno's.
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03-04-2005, 09:54 AM #14
.....jealous?
Originally Posted by Lozgod
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03-04-2005, 10:31 AM #15Originally Posted by Dude-Man
Also, I'm not saying Pheedno's way is correct and Swale's is wrong because both will recover HPTA in a reasonable amount of time....... but I have done both and using an AI has helped ease recovery for me over not using an AI. So in the end each person needs to decides what is best for them.
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03-04-2005, 03:04 PM #16Respected Member
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My justification for utilizing arimidex in my PCT is that I believe supressing estrogen to dangerous levels is not really a factor, considering estrogen levels Vs anastrozole dosing. The majority of AAS users are experiencing supraphysiological levels of estrogen, and with my PCT, incorporating a 1/4 of the clinical dose of arimidex.
I do think using a stronger type II such as letro would be a mistake, as i believe it to be even too strong for the average AAS user during a cycle; but unless you have an individualized adverse effect to lipids from anastrozole specifically(which should be considered), I do not think safety is a concern in respects to lipids with such a low dose of arimidex
I by no means disagree with Swales protocol. I just happen to think the risk to cholesterol is overstated in the majority, given the circumstances.
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nice job you did your homework
good post
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03-04-2005, 03:29 PM #18
Everyone must understand there is a third option, fukkenshredded has a protocol... Maybe we can get him to post it up... You never know if we put all three together maybe what would work for one may not work for another. Having options and reasonings is great to find what can work for individuals.
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03-04-2005, 03:32 PM #19
I think the ise of HCG should be incorporated. The goal of increased LH levels is to raise test levels. HCG enlarges the testicles allowing them to make more natural testosterone . So there is an advantage to use it pre-clomid dosage.
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03-04-2005, 03:32 PM #20Originally Posted by Lozgod
I think using HCG through the cycle, then using nolva at 40mg for 2 weeks, then 20mg until your sex drive is back with morning wood. I think the idea of 3 weeks of clomid or 4 weeks of nolva is to restricting and doesn't account for how people recover diffently.
JohnnyB
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03-04-2005, 03:33 PM #21Originally Posted by JohnnyB
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03-04-2005, 03:37 PM #22Respected Member
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I always incorporate HCG in cycles and advise to do so. I didn't include it in my PCT protocol as it's not PCT, it's part of the cycle
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03-04-2005, 04:31 PM #23
I am partial to jenetics PC therapy. It is in the PC therapy section of a elite if any of you care look.
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03-04-2005, 06:29 PM #24
Week 1-4 Dianabol 35 mg/a day
Week 1-12 Testosterone Enthanate 500 mg/week
Week 12-14 Testosterone Propionate 100mg ed (stop 3 days before pct)
Week 4-12 HCG 250 i.u. every 2 days
Week 1-18 Arimidex .25 mg
Week 1-17 Nolvadex 10mg/a day (20mg week 14-17)
Week 14-17 Clomid 300/150/100
Week 14-17 4 g's of tribulus
As you can see, I had already incorporated the HCG into my cycle as well.
I woke up to see a lot of mods, vets, and respected members arguing their points and that was my goal. Thanks for all the input guys, I learned a bit more now and I know the benefits and side effects of going one way or the other. For now I am just going to leave it as Arimidex week 1-18, but I don't know, I still might change it. I've also maybe thought of bumping the nolvadex a little higher while on Arimidex for pct if it might help. Anyway, thanks a lot guys. Hope this helped other members a little as well.
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03-04-2005, 06:34 PM #25Originally Posted by Beefkake31
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03-04-2005, 08:16 PM #26Originally Posted by Lozgod
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03-04-2005, 08:24 PM #27
Anyway, I am going to go with 250 i.u.'s every 3 days instead of 2 now.
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03-04-2005, 08:28 PM #28Originally Posted by SWALE
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03-04-2005, 08:45 PM #29Originally Posted by Beefkake31
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03-04-2005, 08:58 PM #30
Just my 2 cents...I use Pheedno's method and noticed it worked better with tribulus added. I used to have a solid week of real depression, no sexual desire etc. when I throw in Tribulus I cut that dowms to 2-3 days max.
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