04-12-2002, 06:24 PM #1
Dr. evil said not to take hcg at the end of cycle , if anyone knows it would be him. I just was looking for other opinions on this subject. I used it before but that was along time ago and this have changed since then , cycling that is. And would you use it in the middle of a hard cycle like a test, dbol , deca etc . thanks
04-20-2002, 04:02 AM #2
04-20-2002, 04:35 AM #3
You going to take it at the end too. Not just the middle?
04-20-2002, 02:01 PM #4
I'm sure you've already heard this from Dr. Evil, but HCG increases aromatase activity in the Leydig's cells by increasing cyclicAMP, which can increase estrogen production several times more than normal. It will puff the balls back up, but they will eventually come back with clomid only. Taking it at the end may not be a good idea.
04-20-2002, 02:03 PM #5
04-20-2002, 02:05 PM #6
Can T levels be restored in former anabolic steroid users?
The Study: Two hypogonadal former anabolic steroid users were studied. Normal levels of LH are >3.6 IU/L and Testosterone are 300—1000 ng/dl. Former anabolic steroid users often have suppressed levels of both.
The Results: Subject #1 is a 6', 206lb former user of 500—2000+ grams per week of anabolics. His baseline numbers were: LH<1IU/L, Test=191ng/dl. This suject underwent a 32 day treatment of 2500 IU of *** every 4 days, 50 mg of clomid 2 times per day, and 10 mg nolvadex per day. 15 days after treatment his numbers were: LH=5.2IU/L, Test=1072 ng/dl. >
Subject #2 is a 5'10", 184lb male who used 400 mg per week of nandrolone . His baseline numbers were: LH<1IU/L, Test=45ng/dl. This subject's 32 day treatment consisted of 2500 IU of *** every 4 days, 50 mg of clomid 2 times per day, and 10 mg nolvadex per day. There was no change. He underwent another treatment consisting of 60 days of 5000 IU of *** every 4 days for 4 injections, then 2500 IU every 4 days for 4 injections, 50 mg of clomid 2 times per day, and 10 mg nolvadex per day. Still, no change. For the next 32 days, this subject received 5000 IU of *** every other day for 6 injections, then 2500 IU every other day for 6 injections given with 150 IU of menotropins, 50 mg of clomid 2 times per day, and 10 mg nolvadex 2 times per day. 15 days after treatment his numbers were: LH=9.8IU/L, Test=507 ng/dl.(20) >
Comments: The authors of this paper have presented some very interesting data that the medical community needs to learn from. When dealing with former androgen users, there may be better ways to increase Testosterone than the standard patch treatment (which will only prolong the problem of decreased T production.) Hypogonadal former androgen users need a treatment, not a band-aid. If you need to jump start your Testosterone after an androgen cycle, this combination of ***, Clomid, and Nolvadex may be just what the doctor ordered.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
04-20-2002, 02:08 PM #7
i use it aswell,..........no problems here..........lucky i guess
04-20-2002, 02:20 PM #8
Dancer, I'm not saying that that won't work. It isn't very cost effective or practical. Notice the subjects were on HCG , clomid, and Nolvadex . The reason they had to take the Nolva was to block all of the extra estrogen that was produced by the HCG. I won't harp on this, this is Dr. Evil's specialty. I'm sure he will reply to this one when he gets a chance, and he has plenty of studies to back it up.
04-20-2002, 02:42 PM #9
04-21-2002, 07:22 AM #10
There are two studies that attribute a rise in serum T rate in healthy males when nolv or araimdex are used.... the first attributes a 54% rise and the other 57%...
it is absolubly correct "hcg causes a rise in estro".... here again the mech by which hcg works is what is in question which is direct stimulation...
many have stated the use of hcg actually causes your HPTA to recover slower or not at all, clearly with this and other studies this is not true....
in conclusion (i dont feel like spl checlking) by using all the effects are more dramatic and there are many other studies
04-21-2002, 06:17 PM #11
the way to get natural hormone production up to par again after a cycle is to eliminate abnormally high levels of non-testosterone steroids . the main non-testosterone steroids in the body after a cycle is estrogen. estrogen is produced by the body to compensate for the sudden drop in hormone levels. high levels of estrogen will supress the hypothalamus from sending signals to the leydig sells to produce natural testosterone. clomid and nolva are used post cycle to block the estrogen receptors in the hypothalamus to trick it into thinking that hormone levels are low, so testosterone needs to be produced.
hcg increases the estrogen levels in the body, thus hurting natural recovery. hcg is only an intermediate that directly stimulates the leydig cells, but does not address the problem at the start of the chain reaction (hypothalamus). hcg only provides a temporary (fast) relief.
04-21-2002, 06:39 PM #12
Well said, Doc
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