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  1. #1
    russia dog's Avatar
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    HELP!! diuretic experts::hydrochlorothiazide

    have anyone ever use it??? is it safer than lasix??
    is it antiandrogenic/harm gains/etc..... info on it please!!

  2. #2
    russia dog's Avatar
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    bump.. any info?

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    It's a mild potassium sparing diuretic, which exerts it's effects by having your body excrete sodium.

  4. #4
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    so it's potassium sparing... hmmmmm

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    bump..

  6. #6
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    http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/d...di/202208.html

    it said it;s potassium depleting....

    i need to hear some expeirience.. anyone use it before?

  7. #7
    benrock is offline Junior Member
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    i use 12.5 to lower blood pressure , sides are for the first week and then they go away , helps reduce water weight from test too. just get your potassiom levels checked every 6 months or so , eat some fruits a few times a week , thats all , works good for alot of people , just dont use more then you need 12.5 works good , cheap too

  8. #8
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    watch ur vision and ur hearing...they tend to be on the higher end of the side effects occurred

  9. #9
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    I been on HCTZ(50 mg) for several months with no problems...it can alter the effects of insulin and doesn't deplete your potassium as severely as Lasix....

  10. #10
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    hmm how is it taken?? 50mg ed?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by russia dog
    hmm how is it taken?? 50mg ed?
    The dosage required is dependent on the result you need....IF you find some, I'd start low and work up.....I'd try other alternatives before using a diuretic though....Is your fluid intake sufficient...sodium intake in check?...if you're on cycle, letro seems to keep people dryer than L-dex..(or it did for me )....

  12. #12
    russia dog's Avatar
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    im on3rd pct and it didn;t go away//

  13. #13
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    i have a competition on 23rd.... so.... im very very bloated

  14. #14
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    ....wish I could help you more..maybe some of the others can give you more assistance..I pm'ed you a link that has some more info..

  15. #15
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    would it be dangerous 50mg for a few days?? because otherwise i would do lasixs

  16. #16
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    3rd week of pct... and the water is going down yes but.. too slow.. i only have 18 days till the weighing...and i need to be as light as possible

  17. #17
    buffedude is offline New Member
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    HCTZ is a pottasium wastinf diuretic. The usual starting prescribed dose is 25 mg a day. Usually no side effects; but low blood potassium should be watched for. HCTz is weaker than lasix and also less likely to cause severe hypokalemia. HCTZ mixed with triamterene, which is a potassium sparing diuretic usually decreases the risk of potsssium abnormalitites in people with normal kedney function. Periodic potassium level measurement is prudent for with any diuretic use, however...

  18. #18
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    ma ny thanks

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    Yeah...it's potassium sparing...not totally, though...it's pretty weak, to be honest, and most of the time people opt for something (lasix or whatever) stronger

  20. #20
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    This is what i think, correct me if im wrong:
    this bloat is estrogen-induced bloat.. we talking 20+ lbs! lasix would be too harsh.. especially i would be needing to take it for many days... so.. im looking for a safer alternatives... i went to the pharmacy , dey offered this hydrochlorothiazide.. so.. i was just wondering if anyone have use it for the treatment estrogen-induced edema.... i will be using for a week and see wad happens.. is it worth it.. i don;t wanna waste time.. ... other wise i would go for lasix....which will create diuresis for sure....

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    "Estrogen-induced edema" eh? ....most people would just take an AI and get rid of the estrogen....but you want to take a potentially dangerous systemic-loop diuretic....I like that....

  22. #22
    russia dog's Avatar
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    im on 3rd week of pct i cannot take high dose of AI it will create rebound..

  23. #23
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    im losing water, yes. but it's too slow.. the weighing date for competition is 18th.. diuretic = time... otherwise i wouldn;t take any risk

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    Right now I'm researching the use of Plasma Expanders (long chain starches like Mannitol, etc...) and some other pretty cool compounds (IV albumin) for use as a diuretic in BB'ing comps....I'm a long way from refining it, though...to my knowledge, Duchaine knew about the use of Mannitol, but nobody's ever used it, and I don't think anyone's ever even speculated on IV Albumin for such a use.

    I'm on it...but...I don't think you can get any of this stuff on the fly...also...some of them are necrotic (not albumin, but alot of the others)....meaning, if you shoot it IV, and miss the vein....you have to bleed out your arm, 'cuz it'll start killing muscle.

    Dangerous? Hell yeah.

    Cutting edge? Hell yeah!

  25. #25
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    hahaha that's too dangerous!!!.... im looking for a safer alternative.. dandelion doesn''t do SH!T!!!!!

  26. #26
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    o yea i need to ask this: when you are on diuretic.. do you have to cut water.. or drink as much as you can... which is more effective in loosing the retained water...

  27. #27
    j martini is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by hooker
    Right now I'm researching the use of Plasma Expanders (long chain starches like Mannitol, etc...) and some other pretty cool compounds (IV albumin) for use as a diuretic in BB'ing comps....I'm a long way from refining it, though...to my knowledge, Duchaine knew about the use of Mannitol, but nobody's ever used it, and I don't think anyone's ever even speculated on IV Albumin for such a use.


    I'm on it...but...I don't think you can get any of this stuff on the fly...also...some of them are necrotic (not albumin, but alot of the others)....meaning, if you shoot it IV, and miss the vein....you have to bleed out your arm, 'cuz it'll start killing muscle.

    Dangerous? Hell yeah.

    Cutting edge? Hell yeah!
    I know chad nicholls thought about the use of plasma expanders pre contest apparantley he came to the conclusion that they would not work.

  28. #28
    j martini is offline Member
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    Here is the reasons he gave

    Administering a plasma expander is quite a task. You need more than one person to do it and it isnt for the squeamish.
    The plasma expander must be intravenous through an IV drip. For an athlete the dosages would vary between 500ml-1000ml, with a maximum dosage of 1500ml per day.
    The breakdown with respect to how much fluid an athlete can pull would vary depending on their fluid situation and body type.
    But, as an example, for approximately every 500ml of dextran or heta starch administered, 150-200ml of fluid can can be drawn from extra vascular tissue into the bloodstream in 30-40mins. This sounds great right?
    Unfortunately these numbers are based on the average person who is hydrated. When you put this into a bodybuilding equation, you arent getting as succesful a withdrawal rate.
    A couple of days before a show a bodybuilder is restricting their fluid intake, so the amount of fluid that could be pulled would be cut in half, if even that much.
    On average a bodybuilder could only pull 75-100ml of fluid for every 100ml of dextran or heta starch administered. Not much when you think off what you have to go through to pull that small amount of fluid.
    When you arent supposed to exceed 1500ml a day and youre only able to pull about 300ml of fluid, it just doesnt make much sense.
    Lets say you have the perfect scenario, however. You are able to pull the maximum amount of fluid for an average person in a days time - 600ml. Youre still pushing the boundaries , having to take high amounts of these substances to do this. You would have to take 1500ml during that day - the absolute limit for a day and in my opinion, a very dangerous level for such a small amount of fluid withdrawn.
    If you have still decided to go through with this, what are you going to do with the fluid once you have pulled it? Did you know that you only have a window of about an hour or less to get rid of all the water you have just pulled, before all of it and more spills back into your system? so, up until this point, everyone bhad been thinking that due to the fluid pulling effect of the plasma expander, it could be used as a diuretic and thus, a new way to get around a diuretic test. What people failed to figure , however, is that with only an hour window, how are they going to get rid of this fluid so it wont be re-deposited back into the system? Well, you have to use a loop diuretic. Wait a minute! arent loop diuretics banned substances? Yes they are. This is what i tried to convey - the reasons why i didnt use them and they wouldnt work but no one would listen.
    In the medical field, when administering thes substances(for example, Manitol)
    doctors use what they call a cocktail, which wouild include not only the manitol, but usually a loop diuretic.
    This same theory would have to be used in bodybuilding and thats why plasma expanders and osmotic diuretics dont work.

  29. #29
    russia dog's Avatar
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    .....i thought u guys are suppose to answer my qs

  30. #30
    j martini is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by russia dog
    o yea i need to ask this: when you are on diuretic.. do you have to cut water.. or drink as much as you can... which is more effective in loosing the retained water...

    Cutting your water intake is more effective

  31. #31
    russia dog's Avatar
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    hmmmm

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    Yeah...I wonder if he looked into Albumin, though...that's the most probable of that group....

    And the thing is...if you administer the IV wrong with this stuff...you start killing muscle...but not with albumin....

    Anyway, I'm still looking into it...I'm pretty disinterested in bodybuilding, as a whole, but I think the idea of plasma expanders is interesting.

  33. #33
    j martini is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by hooker
    Yeah...I wonder if he looked into Albumin, though...that's the most probable of that group....

    And the thing is...if you administer the IV wrong with this stuff...you start killing muscle...but not with albumin....

    Anyway, I'm still looking into it...I'm pretty disinterested in bodybuilding, as a whole, but I think the idea of plasma expanders is interesting.
    Its certainly interesting i personally like the idea of a bodybuilder being hooked up to an IV drip before going on stage.
    If im not mistaken cant plasma expanders also be used as a masking agent for EPO for example in endurance sports.

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    Yeah, they can....I like the idea of bodybuilders having a nurse and an IV drip backstage too....something about that appeals to me...

  35. #35
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    dat's out of topic!

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