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  1. #1
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    Is BA the only reason some gear hurts?

    So, the QV prop I was doing absolutely sucked balls. And I heard a multitude of reasons, but essentially, If I'm going to brew my own gear from now on, is it easy to make prop NOT hurt by simply using a 1% BA content instead of 2?

  2. #2
    newbrew is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrumanHW
    So, the QV prop I was doing absolutely sucked balls. And I heard a multitude of reasons, but essentially, If I'm going to brew my own gear from now on, is it easy to make prop NOT hurt by simply using a 1% BA content instead of 2?
    The hormone hurts as well. Easy test, compare Enanthate to Prop with the same BA content. Prop hurts like hell sometimes where Enanthate is painless.

  3. #3
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    Ah, I was told it was the BA content... I didn't understand a reason for the ester change to cause the pain... Prop is oil based, no?

  4. #4
    newbrew is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrumanHW
    Ah, I was told it was the BA content... I didn't understand a reason for the ester change to cause the pain... Prop is oil based, no?
    Ive heard the argument that esters dont make a difference, but you dont ever hear of enanthate pain, you hear of prop pain. My enanthate and prop have the same BA, but my enanthate doesnt leave me limping for 3 days. So, I cant see what else it is.

    My prop is oil based, yes.

  5. #5
    eGGz's Avatar
    eGGz is offline Anabolic Member
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    I found this to be some interesting material. Some may dissagree. (copied from another board) ~eGGz~

    What makes shots hurt?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    High Mg per ML Roids, What you need to know –

    1. Most hormones have a pretty low solubility in oil.
    2. The primary ways to increase solubility are to
    A) add solvent (BA or EA).
    B) Add an ester to the hormone.
    The longer the ester the more hormone will fit in the oil at a certain mg per ml ratio. Conversely, the weight of the ester is also factored in the total mg per ml ratio, so while you can fit more hormone in, you are getting less actual hormone than the mg amount implies. Here are some examples:

    Ester actual mg/100mg dose
    test no ester 100
    tren acetate 87
    test prop 83
    test enanth 72
    test cyp 70
    test undecan 63
    nand phenyl 67
    nand deca 64

    This means that if your test cyp says 200 mgs per ml you get an actual 140 mgs of test. The rest of the weight is the weight of the ester. If that sounds like a bad deal you need to understand that test no ester is VERY insoluble in oil without going to very high mg per ml solvent concentrations.

    This brings up the next point; PAIN!

    Why do some shots hurt? There are two primary reasons. One, the solvent ratio is too high. Anything over about 10% starts to hurt. BA and EA are VERY inflammatory to the tissues. That’s why you want ONLY enough to help your oil hold more gear but not so much that it causes inflammation.

    The second reason is that the gear crystallizes in the depot. This is precisely why water-based suspensions feel like hammer blows. The water is absorbed FAST, leaving the gear to crystallize in the tissues = PAIN. Even gear in oil can do this, here is how it works. If you use a low ester weight attached to your gear and make the mg per ml ratio SIGNIFICANTLY higher than the oil will hold on it's own, what happens is the body absorbs the solvent faster than the oil/gear and the gear falls out of the solution and crystallizes in the depot and WHAM, it hurts like hell. An optimum solution has just enough solvent to get more gear into solution than you could otherwise, but not so much that what I just stated happens. When the ratios are correct the gear holds in the solution UNTIL the whole depot is absorbed and very little or no pain is felt. Just to end this misconception once and for all IT IS NOT THE VOLUME OF THE OIL THAT CAUSES THE PAIN, IT IS ONE OF THE CONDITIONS STATED ABOVE. You can shoot 5cc's of sterile oil and never know you took a shot. It
    IS NOT HOW MUCH OIL YOU SHOOT! So why does everyone search for super high mg per ml ratio gear like it's the damn holy grail???

    What is too high? Well the length of the ester is really what determines that but most of us here know the gear that hurts and know we know why. All tests over 250 mgs per ml hurt, and actually most of the 250 mg tests hurt too. SOOOO many people want there tren at 150-200 mgs per ml. Tren acetate should be at about what?? 75 mgs per ml. That is why all the kits are designed this way. Do you really think it's cheaper for the kit producers to add MORE oil to their kits instead of less? One other quick note. Oil is used because it SLOWS absorption. THIS IS PRECISELY WHAT YOU WANT IN A STEROID SHOT! Less oil does not promote the steady state hormone levels achieved with more oil.

    Originally posted by Doom

  6. #6
    ChefJ's Avatar
    ChefJ is offline Senior Member
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    I tend to use less than 1% ba and go as high as 20%bb in most of my gear. I have a very sterile environment though.
    Last edited by ChefJ; 06-21-2005 at 03:44 PM.

  7. #7
    newbrew is offline Senior Member
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    To the above post, that makes a more solid argument that the ester does in fact make a difference.

    Its really common sense. There is a reason people dont usually make 300mg/ml brews up Prop. Shoot a 300mg/ml and tell me how good it feels.

  8. #8
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    Chef, tell me about your lab, if you will. (Can I hijack my own thread?)

  9. #9
    newbrew is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrumanHW
    Chef, tell me about your lab, if you will. (Can I hijack my own thread?)
    Not directed to me, but I am pretty phobic of germs, especially with something I am injecting into my body.

    I actually use my bathroom (which by nature is very dirty), but I do clean it lot. I clean the toilet and all counter tops with bleach. Before I start my process I give everything a few passes with some disinfectant spray that claims to kill 99.99% of all bacteria and germs. I then 'brew' everything on the counter the furthest away from the toilet. I also turn on the overhead vent...I figure this may help suck up any bacteria that may be floated around in the air.

    I think the spray is the best way to ensure that yoru surfaces are clean to work on.
    Last edited by newbrew; 06-21-2005 at 05:03 PM.

  10. #10
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    Sounds good. I think that process and teh BA sound to be effective enough.

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