Bridging truths needed please

**dazbo** · 05-25-2005, 10:34 AM

Ive heard about using 10mg dbol in the am as a bridge and also to prevent any sexual lulls after a cycle and also to help prevent catabolism.

The thing is, a post I read about this had some major arguments against it which has made me think that its prob a bad idea.

Can someone please explain to me whether or not using dbol @ 10mg ED for 8 weeks post cycle will be a good thing or a bad thing - for both sexual help and also keeping gains whilst also restoring natural test levels as much as poss.

thanks

darren

**dazbo** · 05-25-2005, 11:06 AM

bump -thanks

**punchrf** · 05-25-2005, 11:10 AM

i think 10mg of dbol for me for 8 weeks after a cycle would be a bad for me, but maybe not you. i've been contemplating doing the bridges in between cycle. i was thinking more along the lines of anavar that is more liver friendly but dbol would be a lot cheaper.

bump for more feedback

**1-Cent** · 05-25-2005, 11:11 AM

It can work... you could also have issues fully recovering, there are two camps to this arguement and I don't think you'll get a yes/no answer bro. Staying on a real cycle isn't an option of you? Coming off entirely is obviously better for you but you probably already knew that

**punchrf** · 05-25-2005, 11:14 AM

with the bridgeing i assume you will run a normal pct after your cycle. i think i'm going to be going on for the next year starting in november. i would think if you were going to want to stay on for long periods that you would want to run hcg also.

**smiler** · 05-25-2005, 11:34 AM

if you are on..you are on, you might as well stay on test as well.you either go off (cycle) or you dont.imo even 10 mg will keep you from any kind of recovery

**j martini** · 05-25-2005, 01:51 PM

Bridgeing is great for keeping your gains as you never really cycle off anyway.

However your bodys natural test production will never fully return. If you want to stay on then stay on but dont fool yourself by saying that if i only take 10mg of dbol a day im off anyway.

Bottom line either completely cycle off or stay on.

**bmg** · 05-25-2005, 01:56 PM

rather they "bridging", why dont you just stay on your cycle- thats what youre really doing anyway.

**smokethedays** · 05-25-2005, 02:05 PM

i think it'll be bad, cause d-bol slows down the natural production, it won't help it. plus d-bol at it's smallest dosage would load you with water weight, also 8 weeks of d-bol is pretty bad for your liver.

**dazbo** · 05-25-2005, 02:45 PM

OK guys. I thank you for the replies. I think I may not have explained properly as I didnt realise I would get those replies.

What it is, is when I finish this cycle I dont want to have really low sexx drive like I did after my last poor cycle. Even PCT didnt fully help it then. So, someone mentioned using Dbol after your cycle to help raise your sex drive while comin off.

I then came across a post regarding using the dbol for bridging heres the two I found -
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
dbol bridge explained....
stole from doom at MM.......

Written by Fonz from EF
This is a good read on dbol bridgeing from Fonz should answer alot of your questions.

D-bol Bridge Explained by Fonz
I've been reading some of the posts regarding this
bridge and some of them are truly from left-field.
First of, this is a BRIDGE. OK? a B-R-I-D-G-E.

Your LH function and Test levels are supposed
to RECOVER.

Ok, now having said that.
Here's the pharmo-kinetics behind Methandrostenelone,
brand name Dianabol .

10mg taken at once will increase your average testosterone level by 5 times and decrease your endogeneous cosrtisone
by 50-70%.

The reason why dianabol is a good choice for a bridge is that
its VERY anti-catabolic. It also dopaminergic. Giving you the
benefits of increased CNS strength modulation by
its androgenic mode of action.
Androgens, in case you don't know, increase neuro-muscular
function, thus STRENGTH.

OK. Now, lets delve into the metabolic chemistry behind
dianabol's choice as a bridging agent.

When are testosterone levels highest?

Answer: In the AM, thats when.

Your body releases a tesosterone spike in the morning.
This is when tesosterone levels are highest.

When are Insulin levels lowest?

Answer: In the AM thats when.

Low insulin levels=increased <a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank">protein</a> used as fuel.
(Also fat, but <a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank">protein</a> is also being converted
to glucose via glucogenesis)

OK, here is where dball's short half-life works for us
(Its 3.2-4.5 hrs btw)

Lets take Subject X.

He's in bridging mode.
He has just woken up.
The body is about to release tesosterone, thus
creating a spike.
His insulin levels are low.
His LH and test levels are very low.

He pops 10mgs of dianabol.

Here is where things get interesting.

The 10mgs of dianabol will cause a testosterone
spike WHICH COINCIDES WITH the testosterone
released ENDOGENEOUSLY in the AM by the testes.

The body will be partially fooled.
It will not entirely detect the increased levels of testosterone
(above the normal test sipke), thus LH function WILL
REMAIN only partially(Very little actually) suppressed.

In other words, he is "piggy-backing" an extra dose of testosterone on top of the endogeneously reduced one,
thus creating an "inflated" test spike.

Henceforth, LH levels WILL BE ALLOWED TO SLOWLY
RECOVER over time.
Also, dballs anti-catabolic effect will help curb <a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank">protein</a>-loss
in the morning from low insulogenic levels.

HOWEVER, and here is where almost all of you go wrong.

You CANNOT GO PAST 10mg of dianabol in the AM
for this bridge to work!!!!

Why? Because of the blood levels of dianabol you would generate.

10mg in the AM will be broken down to 5mg in about 4 hrs
(Probably less)

5mg of dianabol, is not enough to cause another rise
in testosterone levels after the precceeding one. Thus,
LH function is allowed to up-regulate.

Anything more(Say 20mgs), will cause a SEDCONDARY
testosterone spike which WILL inhibit LH function further,
thus not allowing LH function to recover.

Oh yeah...100mgs? ROTLMFAO!! Fat chance.

The difference between 20mgs and 10mgs means the difference
between allowing LH to recover slowly and not allowing it to.

So, here's the scenario summed up:

Beginning: LOW LH and test.

Adding the 10mgs dball.

LH is allowed to SLOWLY RECOVER over time as
testosterone levels are kept at a level which
will not cause muscle-loss. Also, dball's anti-catabolic effects
will reduce <a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank">protein</a> degradation.(Via cortisone
reduction)

This is what i call a double positive. You have managed to
INCREASE anabolism(Test levels) and DECREASE
catabolism(cortisone), during a bridge to boot!!

The bridge should last 8 weeks, NO LESS.
I also have to say, that it WILL NOT restore
complete LH function. It'll get you 80-90%
of the way there but the only way you're going
to get your full LH function back is if you go OFF
completely.
Anavar WILL NOT restore LH completely either btw.
(In case anybody is wondering.)
The difference is that with anavar you can take it
throughout the day and with dball it HAS TO BE
once in the AM.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Then I read this totally going against what he said -

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The reason why dianabol is a good choice for a bridge is that
its VERY anti-catabolic. It also dopaminergic. Giving you the
benefits of increased CNS strength modulation by
its androgenic mode of action.
Androgens, in case you don know, increase neuro-muscular
function, thus STRENGTH.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Perhaps he needs to brush up on his pharmacokinetics, as methandienone is actually one of the poorest androgens among common AAS.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When are testosterone levels highest?

Answer: In the AM, thats when.

Your body releases a tesosterone spike in the morning.
This is when tesosterone levels are highest.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wrong, endocrinology, first year. Levels of LH peak in the early hours of sleep.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When are Insulin levels lowest?

Answer: In the AM thats when.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

With the combined peak elevation of cholesterol in early morning and being 8 hours removed from your last meal will do that to you. No surprise there. Wish to solve this ? Eat ...

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Low insulin levels=increased protein used as fuel.
(Also fat, but protein is also being converted
to glucose via glucogenesis)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Exactly, low inulin and high cortisol will work catabolic, hence the reasoning for doing your cardio in the morning, since you are already in fatburning mode.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The 10mgs of dianabol will cause a testosterone
spike WHICH COINCIDES WITH the testosterone
released ENDOGENEOUSLY in the AM by the testes.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First of all methandienone is its own steroid and has little to do with testosterone. Its closest endogenous metabolite is boldenone . And it does neither coincide nor support endogenous release thereof either. I'd like to know where this guy is getting this from.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The body will be partially fooled.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well HIS body anyway, if its as dumb as the rest of him ...

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It will not entirely detect the increased levels of testosterone
(above the normal test sipke), thus LH function WILL
REMAIN only partially(Very little actually) suppressed.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Someone please explain this fool the lengthy receptor times of 17AA steroids and the fact that the increase in 17-alpha-methylestradiol will DEFINITELY shut down endogenous test in a short amount of time.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Henceforth, LH levels WILL BE ALLOWED TO SLOWLY
RECOVER over time.
Also, dbols anti-catabolic effect will help curb protein-loss
in the morning from low insulogenic levels.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I hope for his sake he wasn't dumb enough to take his own advice ...

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HOWEVER, and here is where almost all of you go wrong.

You CANNOT GO PAST 10mg of dianabol in the AM
for this bridge to work!!!!

Why? Because of the blood levels of dianabol you would generate.

10mg in the AM will be broken down to 5mg in about 4 hrs
(Probably less)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually endogenous production will not be allowed to be restored til a shortage of sex steroids is noted, androgenic and estrogenic. Since a single tab of Dbol already exceeds that by a factor of 3 or 4, there is a MAJOR flaw in this theory.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5mg of dianabol, is not enough to cause another rise
in testosterone levels after the precceeding one. Thus,
LH function is allowed to up-regulate.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dianabol does not create a rise in testosterone ...

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
more(Say 20mgs), will cause a SEDCONDARY
testosterone spike which WILL inhibit LH function further,
thus not allowing LH function to recover.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So you are coming of a cycle, levels of androgens drop and your endogenous levels of androgens decline, causing a rebound of estrogen. Instead of coming of properly, supressing that estrogen, you are adding a metabolite that has been shown to be more estrogenic than androgenic, in a dose that is too small to cause any anabolic action, yet high enough to FURTHER supress your natural levels of test.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The difference between 20mgs and 10mgs means the difference
between allowing LH to recover slowly and not allowing it to.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually its the difference between not allowing LH to recover and not allowing LH to recover.

I'm not going to comment anymore, I'm getting enraged and I feel dumber for acknowledging this by reading and responding ..."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now I dont understand whether it is worth it or not ????

Would it be any better just for 4 weeks ? or shall I just skip this as a bad idea ?!?

thanks

darren

**Rickson** · 05-25-2005, 03:51 PM

I think if you are bridging between cycles you are better off just staying on. If you are bridging to recovery then dbol can be helpful especially if you crash like it sounds like you did last time. I don't know of very many Older BB's who don't keep a crash kit with dbol in it just in case. If you cycle long enough eventually you are going to have a tough recovery.

**dazbo** · 05-26-2005, 09:01 AM

anyone else have any oppinions on using dbol to prevent a crash post cycle please ??

thanks

**j martini** · 05-26-2005, 09:08 AM

Personally i dont think its a good idea IMO.

You could try using hcg throughout your course so you recover better post cycle.

**smiler** · 05-26-2005, 11:51 AM

how old r u? over 30? if so and its about sex drive stay on 200 mg test. when im go to 600 mg i never get off the wife.

**dazbo** · 05-26-2005, 01:01 PM

no im only 23. Normally i have a really high sex drive, higher than most i reckon. But since this last cycle, its never been the same and I just wanna make sure it gets back asap.

**fitnessNY** · 05-26-2005, 01:05 PM

I would try to stay off of the drugs to fully recover. Have you thought about anavar as a bridge it is a lot less harsh on the system.

**Benches505** · 05-26-2005, 01:24 PM

I have been looking into it also, let me explain it the way I understood it.

Natural test is produced in the early morning by our body. If you were to take 1 10mg dbol when you wake up by the evening your body would be sending signals again to produce more test since it isn't in the body. It's like tricking your body while still getting some benefits that come with having anabolics in your system.

I found many more opinions that this won't actually allow you to fully recover and it makes sense. The only way to know is to try it followed with blood work to see if you actually do recover fully.

Has anyone tried it?

**dazbo** · 05-26-2005, 01:26 PM

bump for more info on the above

**dazbo** · 05-26-2005, 01:28 PM

oh yeah. And I would not use var as a bridge because my source charges $3USD (£1.60 in the uk where i live) for a 10mg tab. I have 5 tabs per day !! for 8 weeks - yes thats $830USD for the course !! Plus the test and so on! well thats the cycle Ive just started. So no I cant use VAR !! lol

**Titan1** · 05-26-2005, 01:29 PM

If you want to bridge and still rest your body why dont you use IGF-1 in your PCT?

**fitnessNY** · 05-26-2005, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by dazbo

oh yeah. And I would not use var as a bridge because my source charges $3USD (£1.60 in the uk where i live) for a 10mg tab. I have 5 tabs per day !! for 8 weeks - yes thats $830USD for the course !! Plus the test and so on! well thats the cycle Ive just started. So no I cant use VAR !! lol

Yeah, Var is pricey... 3.oo per tab is ass rape.

**dazbo** · 05-26-2005, 04:11 PM

does anyone know how much BD var costs if you go to thailand to buy it ??

**Big Bapper** · 05-26-2005, 04:21 PM

I have done loads of searchs on this and there is no such thing as a bridge. Beter to be just on or off. Dont use Var as a bridge, I know its known as a mild AS, but it will still shut you down, so you wont recovor. Use proper PCT Clomid, nolva, tribilus and if you really want to hold the size run Slin, GH, IGF-1.

**China Dawg** · 05-26-2005, 06:44 PM

I just recently did a bunch of research on low doses of dbol and found some good info on bodybuilding.com. Fonz (who is pro bridging) and Big Cat (against bridging) really hack it out in a bunch of posts. The impression I got is that Fonz is an idiot. Even when I first read his article which you posted I readily saw some blantant errors in his thinking. He clearly has a limited understanding of drugs and how they work in the body so I would not give much weight to what he says. You saw how Big Cat tore his article apart and honestly he was being very gentle and nice in his response.

Really are you talking about doing a bridge where you go right into another cycle? current cycle ----> 8 week dbol bridge and PCT -----> next cycle

Or are you talking about doing a taper? current cycle ----> 8 week dbol taper and PCT -----> stay off for a while...

Like many have said, an 8 week "bridge" isn't going to do much. Will you really recover any significant natural test production in 8 weeks while still running dbol? It depends on your cycle I guess and how shut down you are, but really what's the point if you're just going right back on again???

Now used as a taper maybe there would be some advantage to using a low dose of dbol and maybe even tapering that 10 mg/day for 4 weeks then 5 mg/day for 4 weeks, as an example. A guy at t-nation tried an experiment of a dbol taper recently and was happy with the results:

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do...itan?id=579684

I think I'm going to give it a try on my next cycle to help maintain gains.

But you're asking specifically about sex drive... That's really complex. Sex drive is dependent upon so many variables - test levels, estrogen, DHT, etc. That's why people get such varied results from AAS with their sex drive. Tren kills the sex drive in most while some report it makes them horny as hell! With so much variation it's really impossible to say what a dbol taper would do for you. Best just try it and see for yourself. Worst that could happen is that it could just delay or slow your recovery a little.

For me I think a short acting ester for a shorter cycle is the best for recovering sex drive quickly. I just did a six week cycle of test prop and winny. I swear my natural test production wasn't bad even one week into PCT. Then four weeks into PCT my back acne was gone and my sex drive was incredible, better than ever!

**dazbo** · 05-27-2005, 08:45 AM

Thanks for that last reply - and others. I think I will ponder upo it all through the course of my cycle. I doubt I will use Dbol tho and prob just do PCT. It is mainly to help keep gains and to restore sex drive quickly. I wont be doing any other AAS cycle either.

Thanks again guys

**Will_1** · 07-21-2005, 10:43 PM

Has anyone here done a bridge with dbol and how did it work out?

If low LH is the issue I dont see what the problem would be, as long as you do your normal pct to get things normal.

Couldn't you take a low dose of most any anti-e or hcg to keep your LH normal or slightly above?