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  1. #1
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    Who frontloads, who doesn't, who thinks it's lame/retired?

    Title says it all. Please vote. If you have a negative opinion of frontloading... please state why. For the most part, you can read my detailed opinion on it

    Frontloading motives and benefits explained.

    And secondly, I'm talking primarily of Testosterone with long half life esters, or things that you have already tested your sensitivity to.

  2. #2
    Unoid is offline Member
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    why would you not frontload? its done for a purpose and YES is acomplishes that purpose lol.

  3. #3
    topvega's Avatar
    topvega is offline Anabolic Member
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    i m not against it. just haven't done it myself. after reading your thread i wldn't mind giving it a try and see how it compares to not frontloading or kickstarting with an oral...

  4. #4
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    testosterona is offline Anabolic Member
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    i just finished my first wk of frontloaded test e. up 5lbs of water, so i'd say im for it. we''ll see what happens

  5. #5
    Pinnacle's Avatar
    Pinnacle is offline AR-Hall of Famer ~ Cocky motherF*cker!
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    Frontloading Test never worked for me....BUT after all the hype you've been giving it,I decided to frontload EQ.Which I started last week.I frontloaded 1600 mgs,and will do the same this week as well.It better work or I'll hunt you down and shoot you Truman!


    ~Pinnacle~

  6. #6
    topvega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinnacle
    Frontloading Test never worked for me....BUT after all the hype you've been giving it,I decided to frontload EQ.Which I started last week.I frontloaded 1600 mgs,and will do the same this week as well.It better work or I'll hunt you down and shoot you Truman!


    ~Pinnacle~


  7. #7
    eGGz's Avatar
    eGGz is offline Anabolic Member
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    In theory frontloading makes sense. In practice I'm not entirely convinced it makes a measurable difference. I've frontloaded the last two cycles and I cannot honestly say that I noticed the difference. It seems that for me the longer esters take about the same time to build up to their effective levels even with the frontload. YMMV.

  8. #8
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    Hey, once you decide how much you want to take per week, why wait 5 weeks getting up to it?

    Up 5 pounds of water? Up the nolvadex - or use an AI. You might be sensitive to estrogen. I don't think I am ... although PCT made me a little sensitive at times. lol.

  9. #9
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    Oh, and you're gonna hunt down a guy who was on his SRT and tied or SET every range's record he ever fired a gun on? :-) I'll be here!

    (I know you're kidding, I am too! :-) )

    I can't WAIT to do my next cycle frontloaded! I am chomping at the bit!

  10. #10
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    well, kidding about the threat - not my accuracy or accolades. USMC here baby! :-)
    Last edited by Two4the$$; 09-26-2005 at 12:15 AM.

  11. #11
    Pinnacle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrumanHW
    Oh, and you're gonna hunt down a guy who was on his SRT and tied or SET every range's record he ever fired a gun on? :-) I'll be here!

    (I know you're kidding, I am too! :-) )

    I can't WAIT to do my next cycle frontloaded! I am chomping at the bit!
    So in theory,by the numbers I have posted,when should the EQ be at the 800 mg level?


    ~Pinnacle~

  12. #12
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    By the end of week two... but I've heard that over 700mg didn't really change what eq does... but that less than 600mg was unimpressive. How much do you weigh and what BF%? I figure if you look roughly to that range for a 200 pound guy who's rather lean, and multiply by the coefficient of your respective weight... you'll be right in the mix of enough to do the job and not wasting any $$.

  13. #13
    Pinnacle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrumanHW
    By the end of week two... but I've heard that over 700mg didn't really change what eq does... but that less than 600mg was unimpressive. How much do you weigh and what BF%? I figure if you look roughly to that range for a 200 pound guy who's rather lean, and multiply by the coefficient of your respective weight... you'll be right in the mix of enough to do the job and not wasting any $$.
    218 lbs..6.5% BF...price isn't an issue.I made 175 mls @ 400 mg/ml..so I'm all set.


    ~Pinnacle~

  14. #14
    testosterona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinnacle
    218 lbs..6.5% BF...price isn't an issue.I made 175 mls @ 400 mg/ml..so I'm all set.


    ~Pinnacle~
    i don't even know this guy and he's my freakin hero
    easy on that does pinn, you don't want to run out

  15. #15
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    I dont do it. I think for cycles that are 10-12 weeks it might be better, but if you run gear all year long then I dont think there is a need to front load. I've done it before and see no real benefit to doing it.

    I would rather run a consistent dose for 2 weeks longer then doubling up in the beginning of my cycle.

    If I was to get something into my blood system faster I will use an oral or a fast acting ester.

    Just my .02

  16. #16
    Pinnacle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abstrack
    I dont do it. I think for cycles that are 10-12 weeks it might be better, but if you run gear all year long then I dont think there is a need to front load. I've done it before and see no real benefit to doing it.

    I would rather run a consistent dose for 2 weeks longer then doubling up in the beginning of my cycle.

    If I was to get something into my blood system faster I will use an oral or a fast acting ester.

    Just my .02
    I hear you abstrack..I run all year long myself.I just don't want to be running EQ for 20 some weeks.I'm hoping I can get to levels faster and get off the EQ around week 18 or so.

    ~Pinnacle~

  17. #17
    Pinnacle's Avatar
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    Any other opinions?

  18. #18
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by abstrack
    I dont do it. I think for cycles that are 10-12 weeks it might be better, but if you run gear all year long then I dont think there is a need to front load. I've done it before and see no real benefit to doing it.

    I would rather run a consistent dose for 2 weeks longer then doubling up in the beginning of my cycle.

    If I was to get something into my blood system faster I will use an oral or a fast acting ester.

    Just my .02
    Understandable - however many people here want to minimize the time on while maximizing the gains during... and it's THOSE people whom I feel frontloading is most suitable for. If you're on year round, it REALLY doesn't make a difference... although I don't really see why you wouldn't do it anyway.

  19. #19
    Mesomorphyl's Avatar
    Mesomorphyl is offline Smart Ass Member
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    I have front loaded... I will do it again next cycle. I will also use a kickstart like some drol and winny(yes 2-17aa, wanna fight about it?)

  20. #20
    jnx3k is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinnacle
    Any other opinions?
    how bout eq prop? i hear it hurts like a bitch, but it might help you see the results of eq quicker until the reg eq kicks in. just a thought. not sure.

  21. #21
    TCEL300 is offline Member
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    im thinkn of frontloading my test E next week...500 first shoot...250 eod for a week

  22. #22
    shortie's Avatar
    shortie is offline AR Biggerologist
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    Personally I am sold on it, it is science and math-both very pure forms of deduction as far as I am concerned.

  23. #23
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    I do it with test only.

  24. #24
    TCEL300 is offline Member
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    can you do it with other aas?....i know you cant frontload trenA...but hjow long does that take to kick in???

  25. #25
    shortie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TCEL300
    can you do it with other aas?....i know you cant frontload trenA...but hjow long does that take to kick in???
    Tcel, with a short half life most feel it kick in within a week, to a week and a half.

  26. #26
    TCEL300 is offline Member
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    shortie u r the man...shortie for mod

  27. #27
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    First off, I would caution anyone thinking of frontloading Tren unless you've checked your tolerance to it. Second, I don't know of Boldenone Propionate , only Acetate. But being that it's a short ester thes less of a reward to frontloading it. Frontloading is usually for expediting the twice-a-week injectables with 7 day half lifes and the such.

    Remember ... you don't increase the speed at which your body starts responding to the drug, you just get it up to the intended volume faster. I think EQ which increases RBC is a great example of something that even when frontloaded, increasing the number of RBC takes a little while, but obviously less time than if you didn't F.L. ...

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    I think jump-starting a cycle with orals is more effective....

  29. #29
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    HOOKER! :-) Whats up man?

    Talk to me about that... tell me why you feel that way. I'm sure you've tried both, and I give your opinoins a TON of weight ...

    which orals did you mean, what dosages, what kind of cycles?

    Any ideas on how long GH takes to start showing it's lypolitic affects?

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    I think that you see weight gain from orals much more quickly (they are passed through your liver and go to work immediately), so the increased weight gives you added leverage (and ergo strength). Then you "solidify" (poor word, I know) those gains when you begin adding more strength and weight from the injectables you are using. Injectables just don't add the weight that orals do, especially with regards to speed and on a mg for mg basis. Just my personal experience and theory....

    I mean...you can gain a ton of weight on 1 gram of test, right? But you lower the dose by 1/2 and you'll lose some of it...

    Now, if you stop taking the test, and switch to Dbol ( lets say at 50mgs a day, or 350mgs/week...roughly a third of the test dose), what happens? You easily maintain that weight, thats what. I went from 4g/week of test and deca to 40mgs of (Stark) Dbol...and I didn't lose a pound of muscle. I think orals just beat front loading every time, for bulking. And, for cutting, you can use even less, because in a calorie-deficient state, your body is actually more sensitive to androgens. That all leads me to my theory that for a cutting cycle you are depending on low/moderate doses of very specific compounds, while for bulking you are looking at total mgs/week for maximum efficacy.

  31. #31
    chuck89gt5.0's Avatar
    chuck89gt5.0 is offline Senior Member
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    I frontloaded my last cycle and will again my next cycle.

  32. #32
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    Well Hook, you mentioned Dbol ... how about OT? Do you feel that OT is similar in strength and muscle gains to DBol without the water bloat? I recall you making a comparison to them ... so I was wondering why you mention DBol here if you have such high regard for the efficacy of OT...?

  33. #33
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    PS, a guy on here was sick of my face and recommended I change my avatar... I'm just waiting for him to say "mercy" to revert it... maybe this is an improvement from his view tho. lol.

  34. #34
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    Personally, with your position (and my regard for your opinions) I will probably frontload and use an oral. I can't see any reason not to frontload ... but including an oral sounds like a great "kick off" too. If the gains from OT and Diana are equivalent, or even if OT is 80% as effective as Diana for this application I'd still use it just for the sake of avoiding that puffed up look - which I hate (although I'm not prone to it) ... but I don't think my disposition would be enough to ward off the estrogenic-ness of DBol . But, I'll probably try both eventually to be able to compare them.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrumanHW
    Well Hook, you mentioned Dbol... how about OT? Do you feel that OT is similar in strength and muscle gains to DBol without the water bloat? I recall you making a comparison to them ... so I was wondering why you mention DBol here if you have such high regard for the efficacy of OT...?
    I only mention Dbol here because I've done it, and can vouch for it. Tbol should (theoretically) work similarly, but you probably won't gain as much weight because its a non-aromatizing androgen, and thus your rapid strength/weight increases may not be as rapid...

  36. #36
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    I know I know… this is a total newbie type question… but I’m burning to find out your opinion…

    Well, based on your knowledge ... what would you speculate the percentage of weight gained on OT would be relative to an identical cycle/diet/regiment of DBol would be 2 months after cessation... That way I know what gains are being forfeited to forego the water retentive DBol...

  37. #37
    TheMudMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hooker
    I think that you see weight gain from orals much more quickly (they are passed through your liver and go to work immediately), so the increased weight gives you added leverage (and ergo strength). Then you "solidify" (poor word, I know) those gains when you begin adding more strength and weight from the injectables you are using. Injectables just don't add the weight that orals do, especially with regards to speed and on a mg for mg basis. Just my personal experience and theory....

    I mean...you can gain a ton of weight on 1 gram of test, right? But you lower the dose by 1/2 and you'll lose some of it...

    Now, if you stop taking the test, and switch to Dbol ( lets say at 50mgs a day, or 350mgs/week...roughly a third of the test dose), what happens? You easily maintain that weight, thats what. I went from 4g/week of test and deca to 40mgs of (Stark) Dbol...and I didn't lose a pound of muscle. I think orals just beat front loading every time, for bulking. And, for cutting, you can use even less, because in a calorie-deficient state, your body is actually more sensitive to androgens. That all leads me to my theory that for a cutting cycle you are depending on low/moderate doses of very specific compounds, while for bulking you are looking at total mgs/week for maximum efficacy.
    Agreed......... also I feel frontloading increases sides......... I would rather use an oral to jump start and actually see weight increase both in mass and in strength then wait for the long esters to kick in.

    I also like jump starting a cycle with Prop. The effects aren't as fast as when using an oral like drol or dbol but it works.

  38. #38
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    How did you frontload that caused sides? What dose were you targeting?

  39. #39
    Pinnacle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrumanHW

    Remember ... you don't increase the speed at which your body starts responding to the drug, you just get it up to the intended volume faster.
    So what's the point of bringing it up to levels early on if the gear isn't going to work sooner?

    ~Pinnacle~

  40. #40
    JD5096 is offline New Member
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    I love front loading, I actually front loaded this cycle 1 gram first shot(monday) 500mgs second shot (thursday). 2nd week I continued at 500 mg a week. I felt effects the 3rd day.

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