cycle opinions

[dragon69]

hmmm interesting. You know, I usually change up fat burners throughout the week to get a different effect, or more specifically use a differnt mechanism to burn. To me I think it works extremely well, although I think my choices would suprise. While I use clen 1-2 X week only and low dose (40mcg) I use Yohimbe 2X week (like wed/sat). Yohimbe I feel is a great burner although people don't seem to use it as such.
I guess I don't know what to think about var/tren combo.

[dragon69]

you ever use T3 with tren ?

[Two4the$$]

Well, I was thinking about it. I guess I might try it in ultra small doses. That's something (bizarrely enough) that I am frightened of. I don't want a life long effort of maintaining my weight - in spite all the cmlaims of long term safety.

[dragon69]

worries me too. Some say to do it but I don't think so. There are enough accidents out there to suggest not to.

[dragon69]

so truman what would you put with my sust then (my tren is mixed with prop already so that's out). Eq and Var are on the list here. What do you think?
If I did this one would I add the masteron too?

[dragon69]

should I modify the cycle? This will be in the spring or summer

[Two4the$$]

Well, I like EQ and Var. You may want to throw some NPP and a DHT drug - like masteron or winny, my bias being towards Masteron given it's increasing support base.

Remember, Masteron reduces SHBG, causes leaning on it's own, and gives you a separate class from which to approach your receptors. It's reputation for hairloss and benign hypertrophy of the prostate is slight overstated by many peoples views, especially in a modest dose. Thus, with the NPP, you'l have a 19-nor, Test, and DHT working in accordance with one another. The oral may be used in the beginning or the end... or both if you have a long enough cycle planned to let your kidney recover for 6 weeks or so inbetween.

That cycle will incure a little more water retention (obviously) than the Prop/Tren /Mast cycle ... but it can be used as a bulking cycle. NPP requires you eat like a pig to get full benefit from it. Anyway, plan on doing this cycle in the winter, now even - that way you have time inbetween to start the cutting cycle before summer ... if you're going for aesthetics that is.

[Two4the$$]

Test, EQ, and Var are all Testosterone derivatives...

I stand corrected. Var is a DHT derivative...

[dragon69]

Ok so you like the var, eq, mast, test cycle I've come up with then. So then choice of test. Test e is a possibilty (have some sitting) although the masteron likely needs to be shot EOD so maybe the sust I have is really the best choice here due to it's EOD freq. Dude, normally I wouldn't choose sust (although I've never tried) but I got it SOOOO cheap. Your thoughts here....I'm listening anxiously for your perspective
(40ml sust 250 also 20ml winstrol 100)
Oh also, what dose for the var you think here. 40, 60?

[Two4the$$]

Well, Hooker for instance says he wouldn't use it for building muscle unless he was going to run it at 80+ mg per day.

I'd choose to either run the Winny or Mast, but not necessarily both. However, if you do elect to go with the Winny, be forewarned, it hurts as an injectable - even micronized. You're still going to be lacking a 19-nor. As far as Sust dosing goes, I'm not a fan of it, so I've never really calculated out my sentiments in to quantified dosing schedules. Check out the Roidcalc.com tho - you can figure your blood plasma levels on there, except id doesn't show a graph - and a graph is what would be most useful for determining where your peaks and valleys are. You gotta good deal, maybe it will be very effective for you. I'm still leaning towards suggesting a 19-nor though ... and with EOD shots - NPP is my pick... as your saving the Tren for another cycle, which is a good idea. The EQ is good if you don't have a huge appetite, but I don't really think of it as a fat burner. This is going to be a strictly bulking cycle - which of course is largely dictated by diet ... however, I can't see getting very lean during this unless you're going to throw T3 or DNP in there.

Test-E will be okay for the Tren cycle... but Prop would be better.

I know I said I was hessitant to try T3, but I just ordered it... given that Tren suppresses it, I'm going to go ahead and throw it in. I hope for the best, I don't want a life long necessity of HRT for one bad descision ... but we're all a bunch of guinea pigs here.

What cycle are you on now? Or how long ago did you finish your last one?

[dragon69]

-Given my job I can tell you this as an opinion..... I think the tendency for thyroid problems largely depends on already an present potential for problems....for instance in someone whose family history includes thyroid problems. This is suspicion of course, but clinical experience is a valuable tool here.
-Roidcalc is a great little page I've used it before. Too bad it couldn't boot out stack mismatches, that would be cool. But given our knowledge I don't think we have that problem anyway.
-I likely won't use winny here as I've already a few cycles planned with it in there.
-I will NOT use deca however, it has already spooked me for life.
-Var dose is either 40 or 60 over 7 weeks but meant as a cutter.
-Again the Eq and sust would be for size without much aromitization, while the var and masteron would be for cutting (which should be a good cutting combo). Does this sound good or screwed up?
-I will also do a Prop/Tren /Mast cycle as well.

[Two4the$$]

All the motives look in check to me. You know me, I don't mind writing out my thoughts in a long winded diatribe... but that works for me, lets just see how it works with your body. One thing I have literally been pondering as I walked around today ... is what other 19-nor compounds are there? Nandrolone (npp, deca ... what not, its just an ester change) and Tren ... but are there any other options? I must be missing something. Anyway, if there is, maybe that could be included to hit all three groups. I hate harkening back to one policy as though its the end all, but it certainly seems a useful thing not to turn our backs on.

Other than that, you'll be using long esters ... at least make sure you'll be hitting them in large muscles, quads and glutes. No reason to go else where, the injection frequency won't be high enough to warrant not taking advantage of that. And with regards to a subject we've sort of not addressed; make sure you frontload. No sense waiting 5 weeks to start getting the results from your protocol.

Do you have reservations about frontloading?

[dragon69]

No frontloading is fine. I 2x my prop dose for the 1st 3 dys of my current tren /prop cycle.
Would I only frontload the sust or the eq too?

btw the reason I won't use deca is I had 1 shot of it 10 years ago and within 1/2 hour my dick sunk to the floor like a boat ankor, no movement for a quite awhile.... so NEVER again. Tren hasn't been too bad for that for me.

So this could be a decent cutter? You have more experience with this than I do so I want your opinion here.

[dragon69]

I could modify it if need be

[Two4the$$]

Well, as everyone says, the difference between cutting and bulking is diet - not so much the drugs. However, it doesn't seem like your including things notorious FOR fat burning.

Did you have Test in you during your Deca experiment? Also, NPP is a different animal than Deca; less bloat, faster acting, clears out more quickly.

I would DEFINITELY jump start the EQ. Perhaps something like 2.5x your weekly scheduled dose for the first week.

short on time = short on words...

Talk to you soon.

[dragon69]

Masteron and Anavar are known for cutting.
No there wasn't test at the time. I didn't know better back then.

[Two4the$$]

Well, it's a worthwhile justification for re-evaluating it's effectiveness - as we know what the cause of that problem was... endogenous shut down... long ester to clear, probably didn't have a firm grasp on PCT at the time.

At the time, I understand your hesitation of re-evaluating... but we knew that would happen - with what we know now. Thus, doing what we know would fix it... well, you get my point. I said it twice and you're a smart guy.

THUS! :-)

Lets try that three classes of AAS approach again ... NPP as the 19-nor, Masteron , and Test... throw in a little anavar while we're at it. This would reduce the amount of bloat you're carrying, as the NPP isn't as water retentive ... and gives you the three mechanisms working in accord for pure hypertrophic anabolism.

Of course, the great bit of NPP, is that it clears out pretty quickly - but you're not going to have a hard time while you're on it. The test will keep you in good business.

I'm sending you a PM.

[dragon69]

Ok you're a big NPP fan. So tell me more about it. I have heard conflicting reports on it. Somewhere I have heard some are comparing it to tren (can't recall where other than I know it was internet).
Why is it you think it should be here for a cutting cycle (other than the 3 tiered approach....as it could be any other 19-nor such as tren etc)

[Two4the$$]

Well, you say, "such as tren ." But I've been racking my brain, and I think those are the only two! What else IS 19-nor.

Aside from that, it doesn't make you hold water... and, you'll have test in you - so you won't have the libido issues. Read Hooker's profile on NPP.

Anabolic Review Steroid Profile: Nandrolone Phenylpropionate

Most people just call it Durabolin . Anyway, we know what androdrens are worth - they give us the desire to fvck, get to the gym, and the aggression to push it hard while we're there. Anabolism and hypertrophy are great - but without some desire to do the work, they're useless. Thus, you REALLY need something that replaces your lost-aggression when taking something that shuts down your endogenous testosterone , which the 19-nor's are famous for. Well, once you're is shut down, it's replaced with that ultra mild androgenic drug, nandrolone . This is why a lot of people have a difficult time having sex, feeling lethargic, etc etc etc. But, when coupled with something that does give you aggression, Deca , and it's brother NPP, are capable muscle builders. Lot's-o-peeps swear by them.

Personally, I'll stick with tren, but if you're not someone willing to always throw Tren in the mix, well, you'll have to get your third class of roid from a nandrolone family product... (or tell me about another drug that's also 19-nor for us to consider).

Going to try to get more sleep ...

[dragon69]

Ya I have a copy of the profile.
Personally, I'd go with tren hands down over the durabulins as I tolerate tren very well (I know, I'm lucky).
I just didn't want to use tren with Eq as both can shut down libido (2 of those known for that isn't a great idea). So I could toss the EQ, but then again, if I'm gonna use tren I'll go ED and use prop. I'd also like to use the VAR, but I tend to use winstrol with tren as it blocks the progesterone receptor which is helpfull......and we know not to use 2 orals in 1 cycle. So when do I use my var? Well this is when I came up with the sust (which I have)/eq/var/mast cycle.
Still could use tren though. just so happens I have an extra bottle too.

[Two4the$$]

Well, the Var is DHT, as I made a mistake on that earlier. So that could be one of your DHT choices -

Tren and EQ together are fine - just so long as you have test. They won't nullify your test, they'd just suppress natural production ... so regardless of their respective capacities to do that ... you'll still have exogenous test ... and be fine. I like EQ, I like Tren, Masterons good... put it all together - probably a great cycle.

[Pinnacle]

I like EQ, I like Tren, Masterons good... put it all together - probably a great cycle.

I happen to be running exactly that right now...with enanthate and HGH of course.

~Pinnacle~

[Two4the$$]

Whats your complete cycle Pinnacle? What week are you in, and how's the progress thus far?

[Pinnacle]

Whats your complete cycle Pinnacle? What week are you in, and how's the progress thus far?

Coming into week 6 of :

2g enanthate
1g fina
800 mgs EQ
100 mgs masteron EOD
6 iu's HGH ED

I frontloaded the EQ at 1600 mgs for 2 wks.Didn't work.

My strength is incredible right now.EQ hunger pangs are starting to increase.
Masteron has me hard as a rock(I'm 5.5% Bf,so I can really see it)
I'm up 4.25 lbs of totally lean muscle.
I'll be increasing my caloric intake starting tommorrow as I will be adding slin into the mix as well.I'm going for that rebound effect from dieting really hard for quite some time.So my body is primed to suck up all nutrients I'll feed it.I gained this muscle on around 2700 cals ED.So with the uptick in cals(nutrients)I'm sure I'll explode over the next few weeks.After the slin run,I'll switch over to LR3 IGF-1 for 30 days at 120 mcgs ED.

~Pinnacle~

[Two4the$$]

WOW! That looks AWESOME! How are you hanging with the gram a week of fina? Are you a little worried about the sides when coming off? Everything else looks quite tolerable... I'm thinking about bumping my dose of fina and prop ... to 150mg ed of prop, and 75mg ED fina ... I'm also starting my masteron and EQ in about 4 days, finally.My T3 should be here today ... :-)

The HGH is supposed to be more effective when run in EOD increments, have you heard?

Do you keep your cholesterol in check? How do you keep track of that? It's a kinda of scary thing we blaze over... I read something last night that showed that 40% of people die from coronary disease... WOW! 40%.

I hope you did before pics ... I think you going to HAVE to post some before and afters...

Have you run all the increments of Test inbetween 500mg and 2gm's? Or did you just go right up to it?

Also, I hear the EQ dose you're taking is just about it's limits for efficacy. It's mild...

What anti E's are you taking? Letro?

[dragon69]

Hey I didn't know Var was DHT. That's helpfull info.
Wow you got some intense dosages pinnacle. Ig fina, crap that around 150mg /day.
I start seeing mild sides at 80mg. Think maybe some day trying 100mg to see if I can tolerate it as well, but 150?
I do however wonder if that's too many compounds though. I would just think that after about 3-4 drugs, each added one would kinda be pointless. You guys know what I do for work, so my pharmaceutical knowledge is very good. But hey, I am new at using too. Hard to preach having only experience with 1 cycle (my current one).

So Pinnacle, what is YOUR opinion of the cycle I have outlined here? I am currently using tren /prop/winnie and have a future tren/prop/masteron /winnie cycle ready to go maybe in the spring or summer (which ever I do first). So I will be repeating the tren.
So, here is my idea on something later or before that tren/prop/mast/win cycle

Sust 250 EOD (have 40ml already)
Eq 160 EOD
Masteron 100 EOD
Anavar 60mg ED

See I have the sust already so I should probably use that. ALTHOUGH, I have considered using sust for the 1st month and switching to Test e (which I ALSO have but not enough of for a whole cycle)for the remainder so it's easier on me when PCT arrives.
I have considered using tren instead of eq, but then (as we discussed previously it needs ED) I might as well use prop. So considering the sust or enanth component and going EOD, what do you have to say here?
Also would you put the anavar here or with a tren/prop cycle? I wanted to use the Var as the main part of the cutting cycle, so since I have both that and the sust, I should use them together. SO many ways to look at this, whew.

[Pinnacle]

How are you hanging with the gram a week of fina?Sleep is the only issue I'm having right now.I've ran this dose once before and sides sides were a little worse.This trip is a piece of cake,except for insomnia.

The HGH is supposed to be more effective when run in EOD increments, have you heard?Yes,I've read that study in children.Personally I don't know anyone has ever ran it like that.From a bodybuilding stand point it doesn't seem to fill our needs.I certainly won't be the one to do the experiment.

I just had blood work done last week.Levels are slightly elevated,but that is common for me since it's hereditary.I'll be getting blood work done on a monthly basis.

Have you run all the increments of Test in between 500mg and 2gm's?Yes I have.Before these boards were around I ran some lousy cycles,as others did as well.But all in all,i climbed the Testosterone ladder and found higher doses suit me much better.I get very little to no sides running Test at higher doses.


What anti E's are you taking? Letro?NONE

Are you a little worried about the sides when coming off?I'm on all year round.I cruise at 250 mgs Test between cycles.

[Two4the$$]

The insomnia's brutal, no? What do you do for it? Have you found anything that worked? What have you concluded DOESN'T work?

In terms of HGH, it's a matter of not suppressing your own HGH, no? Not just maximal gains...

I'm thinking I'll bump my dose this cycle (as mentioned) from 700mg per week of Prop to 1050mg, and the Tren to 75mg ED. I'll let you know how that affects me ... hopefully my mood stays mellow.

I'm taking Letro ... How did you're little raisons conclude it'd be wise to not run an anti e? (and I mean that jokingly, as I don't think I have the balls to not run one to just see how it goes)

Okay, when you come off Tren, is it not as bad when you have Test in your system still?

[dragon69]

So Pinnacle, what is YOUR opinion of the cycle I have outlined here? I am currently using tren /prop/winnie and have a future tren/prop/masteron /winnie cycle ready to go maybe in the spring or summer (which ever I do first). So I will be repeating the tren.
So, here is my idea on something later or before that tren/prop/mast/win cycle

Sust 250 EOD (have 40ml already)
Eq 160 EOD
Masteron 100 EOD
Anavar 60mg ED

See I have the sust already so I should probably use that. ALTHOUGH, I have considered using sust for the 1st month and switching to Test e (which I ALSO have but not enough of for a whole cycle)for the remainder so it's easier on me when PCT arrives.
I have considered using tren instead of eq, but then (as we discussed previously it needs ED) I might as well use prop. So considering the sust or enanth component and going EOD, what do you have to say here?
Also would you put the anavar here or with a tren/prop cycle? I wanted to use the Var as the main part of the cutting cycle, so since I have both that and the sust, I should use them together. SO many ways to look at this, whew.

[Pinnacle]

So Pinnacle, what is YOUR opinion of the cycle I have outlined here? I am currently using tren /prop/winnie and have a future tren/prop/masteron /winnie cycle ready to go maybe in the spring or summer (which ever I do first). So I will be repeating the tren.
So, here is my idea on something later or before that tren/prop/mast/win cycle

Sust 250 EOD (have 40ml already)
Eq 160 EOD
Masteron 100 EOD
Anavar 60mg ED

See I have the sust already so I should probably use that. ALTHOUGH, I have considered using sust for the 1st month and switching to Test e (which I ALSO have but not enough of for a whole cycle)for the remainder so it's easier on me when PCT arrives.
I have considered using tren instead of eq, but then (as we discussed previously it needs ED) I might as well use prop. So considering the sust or enanth component and going EOD, what do you have to say here?
Also would you put the anavar here or with a tren/prop cycle? I wanted to use the Var as the main part of the cutting cycle, so since I have both that and the sust, I should use them together. SO many ways to look at this, whew.

Which cycle?You change your thoughts like I change underwear.I'm getting lost trying to keep up with all the changes/thoughts.Keep it simple for me,instead of rambling.Post the cycle you have in mind and I'll give you my opinion.OK?

~Pinnacle~

[dragon69]

Which cycle?You change your thoughts like I change underwear.I'm getting lost trying to keep up with all the changes/thoughts.Keep it simple for me,instead of rambling.Post the cycle you have in mind and I'll give you my opinion.OK?

~Pinnacle~

Sust 250 EOD (have 40ml already)
Eq 160 EOD
Masteron 100 EOD
Anavar 60mg ED
About 12-14 weeks

that one.

I was just trying to say that I'm using tren /prop now and will also in another cycle too, so I wanted to do a tren-less cutting cycle before or after that. Opinion here?

[Pinnacle]

Sust 250 EOD (have 40ml already)
Eq 160 EOD
Masteron 100 EOD
Anavar 60mg ED
About 12-14 weeks

that one.

I was just trying to say that I'm using tren /prop now and will also in another cycle too, so I wanted to do a tren-less cutting cycle before or after that. Opinion here?

I don't like the VAR in the cycle.I'd opt for a much stronger androgen like anadrol or halo for cutting.I like the EQ/Masteron and if Sust is all you have then so be it.

~Pinnacle~

[dragon69]

I don't like the VAR in the cycle.I'd opt for a much stronger androgen like anadrol or halo for cutting.I like the EQ/Masteron and if Sust is all you have then so be it.

~Pinnacle~

Var is known though for fat-burning, anadrol is not so I'm not sure where you're going there. I was looking at it like the var/mast would be the cutting component while sust/eq part would be for mass.
Is it OK or screwy?

Nah, sust isn't all I have, just I have 40ml of it. Had considered doing the 1st month or so as sust and then switching to test e after using the same EOD schedule so PCT would be 'cleaner'.

[dragon69]

I also have winstrol too actually but I usually will use that with tren cycles. Although I could use the var with the tren if you think it's better.

Shit maybe I should just let you know everything what I have and go from there.

[Pinnacle]

I'd definitely would go with Winny over VAR.The stronger the androgen,the better ability for cutting.

~Pinnacle~

[dragon69]

hmmm which cycle would var be best put with then? This 1: sust/eq/mast or this 1: prop/tren /mast?

Did you like it better with 1/2 sust and 2nd 1/2 test e?

I'm gonna figure out what I have and post a list soon.

[Two4the$$]

Well, Masteron is your DHT drug - so the Var is optional... but it is lipolytic. Just include it... it'll be good. You can take both if you like...

[dragon69]

Ok then.

Did you like it better with 1/2 sust and 2nd 1/2 test e?

any other test ester you can think of (prop I save to use with tren ) that would be shorter than enanth but longer than prop?

[dragon69]

Would it be too much to add Dbol or Tbol to the front month and then start the var?
That might supply and androgen pinnacle was talking about.

Ya I have 40ml winnnie too.

[Pinnacle]

How about running the Var the first 4-5 weeks,then take a short break from the orals scene,and finish up with the winny?Viola...you'd have you beloved Var in there along with a androgen that will harden you up at the end as well.

~Pinnacle~