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  1. #1
    Konstandino's Avatar
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    Question Just Started 1st Cycle - Need some support please!

    Hey guys!

    After doing a ton of research I decided I can't wait any longer. I'm in my 4th day of my first cycle. Since this is my first cycle I decided to start with something mild and focus on cutting, while trying to gain some lean mass. I'm 25 years old and 235 lbs. I've been training for the past 5 years. Here is what I'm running:

    Week 1: 250 mg. of Sus 250
    Week 2-10: 500 mg. of Sus 250 EW (1 injection per week)
    Week 1: 40 mcg. of Clen ED
    Week 2: 80 mcg. of Clen ED
    Week 3 & 4: ECA Stack
    Week 5: 40 mcg. of Clen ED
    Week 6: 80 mcg. of Clen ED
    Week 7-10: ECA Stack
    Week 1-4: Anavar 40mg. ED

    PCT: Clomid? When and how much?

    I think this is a pretty decent cycle for a first timer. The Clen and ECA with tackle fat burning, while the Var will help preserve my lean mass while helping with strength and hardness. The Sus will help me with strength and some mass as well.

    I'm a little confused about the PCT though. I know I have to use Clomid, but is that sufficient alone? Being that the sus dosen't aromatize as much... Will I need to use Nolvadex or HCG also or will the Clomid be sufficient. When do you guys think I should start the clomid? After the last injection of Sus or sooner?

    As far as my liver, I'll be fine since this is a pretty mild cycle. I'm taking dandelion root tea every evening, which is a liver cleanser. Do I need more liver support? I'm also taking Animal Pack, Sublingual B12, Liquid L-Carnatine, Whey Protein, NO2 + Creatine (Works well with the Anavar).

    Since I'm cutting, I'm at 2000 Calories.

    Protein: 300 g.
    Carbs: 150 g. (Cycled)
    Fat: 20-30 g.

    Cardio 6 times a week. Weights 4 times a week. Yoga 3 times a week.

    Am I missing anything? Guys I need your imput please! I've researched enough and I'm ready. Any way that I can improve the cycle? Anything I should add?

    Thanks in Advance!

    By the way the Sus injection is a killer, I couldn't sleep all night!
    Is this typical of all injectables or specific to the Sus. I developed a hugh knot in my glute and was tossing and turning all night. Felt like someone shot me on my ass! Perhaps someone can make it better... lol

    I'm also feeling a lot more hornier than usual, which is fine by me... lol

  2. #2
    DSM4Life's Avatar
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    If i understand that correctly you are taking 500mg of sus 1 shot per week ?
    You should be shooting that 2x a week. Some even shoot it EOD.

  3. #3
    Konstandino's Avatar
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    Here is what I'm going by, the sus profile says the following:

    "The dosage in bodybuilding and powerlifting ranges from 250 mg every 14 days up to 1000 mg or more per day. Since such high dosages are not recommended-and fortunately are also not taken in most cases-the rule is 250-1000 mg/week. A dosage of 500 mg/week is completely sufficient for most, and can often be reduced to 250-mg/ week by combining Sustanon with an oral steroid "

    I guess someone with a couple cycles under their belt could do more, but I think I'm fine where I am. I'll be fine being that I'm combining Var as well. Plus I can't afford any other gear, this cycle is costing my $500

    The Var put a huge dent in my wallet!

    But it's all worth it baby!

  4. #4
    DSM4Life's Avatar
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    You should have done more research. All you needed was this
    sus250 500mg for 10-12 weeks
    nolva 10-20mg each day

    PCT
    clomid
    nolva 10-20mg

    Thats all you need for first cycle and it has been recommened 1000 times on the boards. I don't .........

    ..... i am re-reading you org post. You are cutting !? ..your post is too confusing . What are you trying to do bulk or cut. If you are eat only 2000 calories a day you just wasted 500 bucks. EAT BIG for gains.

  5. #5
    Konstandino's Avatar
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    Research never ends DSM, I think we do it for the rest of our lives.

    Um, I am in fact doing 500mg of Sus for 10 weeks, that's what I originally posted. I do have some fat to lose though, and my main focus is to cut, while getting strong and hard. I think my original post was pretty clear on that.

    Aren't we all here to support each other, I've noticed this constant need for everyone to show their ego's concerning steroids . Is their really a need for that? Every time I ask for help or opinions I always get a egotistical response, is there someone out there who is really willing to give me good, caring advice?

    My post is very straight forward, I am cutting and that is why I'm intaking 2000 cals. I have some fat to lose, so I think that's fine for me. I'm not looking to gain extreme muscle at this point, that's not my goal.

    Thanks for your response though. Any experienced vet out there?

  6. #6
    DSM4Life's Avatar
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    You can knock my advice all you want i really don't care because its your body not mine. You say you want to put mass on but also lose fat. That is my first tip that you aren't even sure about diet. Its either you are cutting or bulking. As you put it "cutting, while trying to gain some lean mass.." isn't going to happen, so pick one. There are certain steriod for cutting which i think most people don't need unless you are competing. For the average joe like myself when i cut i will do it by diet not juice. When i want to bulk (like i am now) i am eating 3500 cal with 500mg of test e each week 2x shots/250mg. I am putting on fat, as well as mass, but when i am done i will then cut down calories still work out hard and obtain my goal.

    I will say it again, sticking the needle in the arm is the easy part , diet and traning is the boitch. Take this advice how you will. Later.

  7. #7
    Konstandino's Avatar
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    I'm not knocking your advice, I just sense this ego and judgment coming from you. And I feel that there is no reason for it. We are here to help each other out. You don't know anything about me or my body, so how can you make such harsh judgments? There's really no need for that.

    For my body type, it's very challeging for me to lose fat, even when diet and cardio are in place. So I need the Clen and Anavar to give me a boost.

    Anyway, I'm not going to continue this back and forth, that's not why I started the thread.

    Anyone else out there, who can give me solid advice?

  8. #8
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    This is my last statement. I am not coming at you in anyway. I can understand it hard for you to lose fat but like i said before pick what your goal is , lose fat or bulk up. Lose fat = decrease calories and run clen by itself (if you want). Bulk up/add mass increase calorie intake and add test (if you want). I am providing you with some simple concepts here.

    Good luck.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konstandino
    Hey guys!

    After doing a ton of research I decided I can't wait any longer. I'm in my 4th day of my first cycle. Since this is my first cycle I decided to start with something mild and focus on cutting, while trying to gain some lean mass. I'm 25 years old and 235 lbs. I've been training for the past 5 years. Here is what I'm running:

    Week 1: 250 mg. of Sus 250
    Week 2-10: 500 mg. of Sus 250 EW (1 injection per week) Should be injecting at twice a week to be most effective. This will ensure that your levels stay consistent throughout the cycle.
    Week 1: 40 mcg. of Clen ED
    Week 2: 80 mcg. of Clen ED
    Week 3 & 4: ECA Stack
    Week 5: 40 mcg. of Clen ED
    Week 6: 80 mcg. of Clen ED
    Week 7-10: ECA Stack
    Week 1-4: Anavar 40mg. ED

    PCT: Clomid? When and how much?

    For PCT I would reccomend the following:

    Days 1-2: 300mg Clomid ED
    Days 2-7: 200mg Clomid ED
    Every 10 days after this lower your clomid by 50mg

    You can also combine the PCT with Novladex at 20 or 40mg ED. I would reccomend keeping Nolva on hand. You will know if you need to take nolva during your cycle once you get moving along. Since it is your first cycle it is difficult to know whether or not to take nolva right away - there is a risk of losing some gains if you do take nolva during your cycle. Everyone reacts differently.


    I think this is a pretty decent cycle for a first timer. The Clen and ECA with tackle fat burning, while the Var will help preserve my lean mass while helping with strength and hardness. The Sus will help me with strength and some mass as well.


    You have done research so I'm sure you have seen elsewhere that it is extremely difficult to bulk and cut at the same time. Since you have been training for awhile and it is your first cycle - It could be fair to assume that your possibility of gaining a lot of lean weight is better than most at their first time around.

    I'm a little confused about the PCT though. I know I have to use Clomid, but is that sufficient alone? Being that the sus dosen't aromatize as much... Will I need to use Nolvadex or HCG also or will the Clomid be sufficient. When do you guys think I should start the clomid? After the last injection of Sus or sooner?

    You shouldnt' need any HCG. You aren't taking enough/long enough for you to need it. Your clomid (as above) should be sufficient alone or in combination with Nolva. It doesn't hurt to use both in PCT.

    As far as my liver, I'll be fine since this is a pretty mild cycle. I'm taking dandelion root tea every evening, which is a liver cleanser. Do I need more liver support? I'm also taking Animal Pack, Sublingual B12, Liquid L-Carnatine, Whey Protein, NO2 + Creatine (Works well with the Anavar).

    This is one area I consider very important. Your supplement choice. Be sure you pick high quality brands and I would reccomend taking 600-800mg of Saw Palmetto ED as well as 1000mg Milk Thistle ED. I would also suggest taking a multivitamin, and if you would like to, take cran extract. I like to take cran extract to help out the kidneys just in case. Although sus does not directly effect your kidneys, I feel that strict dieting and hard training can. Be sure to drink 1.5 to 2 gallons of water per day, and maintain a religious cycle of diet, training, and sleep.

    Since I'm cutting, I'm at 2000 Calories.

    Protein: 300 g.
    Carbs: 150 g. (Cycled)
    Fat: 20-30 g.

    I almost forgot this part. Your diet is probably 75% of your success. Up your protein intake to 350-375g per day. Your carbs might want to go up as well to around 225 or 250. With all of the cardio you have listed below, as well as weight training, you will need plenty of fuel. As far as fats are concerned - be sure to get your EFAs everyday - and maintain consistency! Check out the Diet forum for detailed information about your intakes.

    Cardio 6 times a week. Weights 4 times a week. Yoga 3 times a week.

    Am I missing anything? Guys I need your imput please! I've researched enough and I'm ready. Any way that I can improve the cycle? Anything I should add?

    Thanks in Advance!

    By the way the Sus injection is a killer, I couldn't sleep all night!
    Is this typical of all injectables or specific to the Sus. I developed a hugh knot in my glute and was tossing and turning all night. Felt like someone shot me on my ass! Perhaps someone can make it better... lol

    I'm also feeling a lot more hornier than usual, which is fine by me... lol

    Best Of Luck.

    I don't think I missed anything... but there is always the chance I did.

    Regards,

    MuX
    Last edited by LAGMuXle; 01-19-2006 at 08:39 PM.

  10. #10
    clipper is offline Associate Member
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    I think the main point here is, it is very hard, if not imposable, to loose fat AND put on any muscle at the same time.
    Your best bet IMO is to bulk this cycle with the sust and var. Keep the calories and protien high. And then after this cycle is all done, use the clen and ECA stack to loose fat.
    You seem to have done your reading, but still have more to do, as do we all. But you are trying to do too much on one cycle IMO.

  11. #11
    LAGMuXle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clipper
    I think the main point here is, it is very hard, if not imposable, to loose fat AND put on any muscle at the same time.
    Your best bet IMO is to bulk this cycle with the sust and var. Keep the calories and protien high. And then after this cycle is all done, use the clen and ECA stack to loose fat.
    You seem to have done your reading, but still have more to do, as do we all. But you are trying to do too much on one cycle IMO.

    Agreed.

  12. #12
    toolman is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by clipper
    I think the main point here is, it is very hard, if not imposable, to loose fat AND put on any muscle at the same time.
    Your best bet IMO is to bulk this cycle with the sust and var. Keep the calories and protien high. And then after this cycle is all done, use the clen and ECA stack to loose fat.
    You seem to have done your reading, but still have more to do, as do we all. But you are trying to do too much on one cycle IMO.
    Agreed! There is no cutting and bulking at the same time. If you are looking for mass, run the test and eat the calories (clean diet that is). Then you can cut after your cycle.

    On a side note, if that is you in your avtar, great work on cutting but put some clothes on, johnson outlines aren't a welcome sight in my book

  13. #13
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    I also agree with that, you are trying to do it all, be patient bulk this cycle, eat like it's your job, lots of protein and calories. Then worry about cutting off the fat. Good luck

  14. #14
    dirtyi730 is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by toolman
    great work on cutting but put some clothes on, johnson outlines aren't a welcome sight in my book

    Gotta agree with that too

  15. #15
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    Wonderful, this is the feedback I needed. So this is what I'm thinking for a lean bulking cycle, then after the cycle is over I can cut w/ Clen and ECA

    Week 1-10: Sus 500mg. EW
    Week 1-4: Anavar 40mg. ED

    PCT: Clomid and Clen

    How long should my PCT last?

    Supplements: Animal Pack, Whey, Liquid L-Carnatine, No-Xplode (NO2 + Creatine), Gakic, Sublingual B12, 800mg Saw Palmento ED, 1000mg. Milk Thistle ED, Dandelion root tea,

    I weigh 235 and I'm 5'10, how many calories should I be taking in when bulking? And what is a good ratio of protein, carbs, and fat for me?

    How much cardio should I be doing, since I'll be bulking? And lastly what are the benefits of the saw palmento and milk thistle, how are they helping?

    LOL about the Avatar, no that is not me... would like to look like that soon there. It's a very motivating picture.

  16. #16
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    Good Morning guys!

    Thank you all for your feedback. I'm going to spend the day creating a nice bulking diet and I will post it later on this evening for all of you to critique.

    After my first bulking meal this morning, I feel like I can't breath and in about 30 min. I'm going to have another one. So far I had 8 egg whites, 1 scoop whey, and 1 cup oatmeal.

    I was forcing the last of the whey down! Hope I can get used to this being that I'm a student it's challeging to prepare and cook things. Any ideas for good quality protein bars without garbage ingredients?

    Thanks!

  17. #17
    Kale is offline ~ Vet~ I like Thai Girls
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    Lot of good advice here. The reason you need to do the sust EOD (regardless of what it says on the box) is because Sust is made up of four different types if Test, each has a different half life. The shortest of which Is Test Prop which lasts around a day. If you want to get the most out of everything in the sust then do it ED or EOD. If you dont want to do that, then go buy some Test E or Test C, you can shoot that once or twice a wekk and it is cheaper. Have alook at this for a good bulking diet UNoffical "How to Bulk" thread and sample diet...

  18. #18
    Konstandino's Avatar
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    Kale EOD at how much? 250mg?

  19. #19
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    Why is it when someone gets advice they don't like or criticism on their cycle they attribute it to ego or judgement? DSM's advice was right on and I don't see any EGO involved. No he didn't sugar coat it for you but you should be more appreciative of the time he took to respond with some feedback.

  20. #20
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    Jersey, you are right...Well maybe it was my ego, anyhow. Sorry DSM, didn't mean to be a prick, this whole process has just been kinda frustrating for me, as soon as I think I'm on the right track I realize I have to make changes again, which is good... because I enjoy learning and pushing myself.

    I guess I was frustrated and took it out here on the board. I really do appreciate all of you and your feedback. You're all helping me reach my goal.

  21. #21
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    Konstandino -

    Another thing to keep in mind is to monitor your blood pressure as well. Every week or few days I would check it just to be sure you don't get too high. A friend of mine was sensitive to sust.

    MuX

  22. #22
    DSM4Life's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konstandino
    Jersey, you are right...Well maybe it was my ego, anyhow. Sorry DSM, didn't mean to be a prick, this whole process has just been kinda frustrating for me, as soon as I think I'm on the right track I realize I have to make changes again, which is good... because I enjoy learning and pushing myself.

    I guess I was frustrated and took it out here on the board. I really do appreciate all of you and your feedback. You're all helping me reach my goal.
    Thanks man, and Jerseyby. Again even though i don't know you i still don't want to see you get hurt. We should all be here to help each other and thats what i do. If someone post about something i know i post. If i don't know about the topic then i keep my mouth closed and so research myself. Trust me i know how it feels to think you have it and then have it slip right through your fingers. Remember this is your body/health for the rest of your life so don't go too fast. Goodluck

  23. #23
    toolman is offline Banned
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    More importantly change your avtar Konstandino!!!

  24. #24
    clipper is offline Associate Member
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    The last thing in your orginal post says the injection hurt after. Try slowing the injection down. It should take one min or more to inject. Go slow, and easy. It will hurt alot less after.

  25. #25
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    Still in a lot of pain from first sus injection to my glute. It's been 4 days. I need to purchase needles for next week.

    What gage and size do you all suggest. I'm thinking to start injecting in quads, maybe it will be less painful there. Isin't a needle a needle a needle? What relevence do the different gages and sizes have?

    What's the best website to order needles from that offers really fast shipping?

    Thanks!

  26. #26
    Konstandino's Avatar
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    This may sound silly, but what does it mean to "aspirate "? Is that when you tap the syringe, or the actual pushing of the juice into the muscle.

  27. #27
    toolman is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konstandino
    This may sound silly, but what does it mean to "aspirate"? Is that when you tap the syringe, or the actual pushing of the juice into the muscle.
    when you draw back on the plunger to make sure you are not injecting into a vein.

  28. #28
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    Imho

    Quote Originally Posted by clipper
    I think the main point here is, it is very hard, if not impossible, to loose fat AND put on any muscle at the same time.
    Your best bet IMO is to bulk this cycle with the sust and var. Keep the calories and protien high. And then after this cycle is all done, use the clen and ECA stack to loose fat.
    You seem to have done your reading, but still have more to do, as do we all. But you are trying to do too much on one cycle IMO.
    IMHO, you need to eat closer to 5000 calories per day. It's hard. Really hard and you will gain fat but your chances of missing some potential muscle gains is diminished. You cannot gain muscle AND lose fat at the same time very effectively. That's a slow, natural process and gear is not recommended. I agree with Clipper; you've gotta make sure you post some solid muscle gains in this cycle and 2000 calories isn't even enough to maintain your weight as is, much less hitting the weights, doing cardio, and yoga. Jesus Lord, maybe 6000 calories is better.

    Don't try to do it all at once: Bulk (and you'll gain some fat), then cut. Even then, at your weight, 2000 calories isn't going to cut it IMO. (My wife, the beanpole, eats 2k calories/day.

  29. #29
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    That is a terrible first cycle. Only ONE compound should be used the first cycle. WHY? Because what if you get unwanted sides...where is the source of the side coming from? Is it from the var, ECA, test, Clen ???? THERE IS NO WAY IN KNOWING!

  30. #30
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    So far I feel wonderful, haven't noticed any sides. To soon to feel effects from only 1 sus injection on my glute which is still sore... perhaps someone could make it feel better... lol

    Gotta tell you guys, Anavar is amazing... It's only been one week at 40mg. a day and I'm feelin' that stuff man. Strength is amazing, ... I'm noticing more vascularity and hardness which is making me feel great!

    By the way, liquid milk thistle tastes like crap... yuk!

    By the way is it okay if I smoke while on juice? Of course I should stop anyway, but I think I read that it's not good while juicing?

  31. #31
    toolman is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konstandino
    By the way is it okay if I smoke while on juice? Of course I should stop anyway, but I think I read that it's not good while juicing?
    Very stupid to smoke period. First, nicotine is an appetite supressent. It also raises your BP, lessens your circulation, etc. Quit.

  32. #32
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    I am sorry but i don't know why the hell you are continuing this cycle. You don't eat right, don't know about needles, you don't know/have a PCT and worst of all you don't even know how to aspirate a needle. Are you even using a alcohol pad to clean the area before you inject? Have you ever had a deep in the muscle infection? Do you know what is going to happen if you shot gear directly into you bloodstream ? Man you are take some crazy risks.

  33. #33
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    DSM, I suppose you were a steroid expert upon excretion from the whomb? Or perhaps studying steroids in the placenta?

    Get off your high horse already, there is first time for everything. Isin't that what life is about? Learning and growing? Stop spewing negativity it's getting old already.

    Guess it's not my ego after all.

  34. #34
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    When your life/health is involved you say there is a first time for everything ! HAHAH You are a outright moron. You are risking your life just to try and get big. I never said there was anything wrong with being new to the game but that doesn't mean you shot and ask questions later. This isn't the wild west. I read 3 years before i ever did any one this. I just hope your health insurance is up-to-date.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSM4Life
    I am sorry but i don't know why the hell you are continuing this cycle. You don't eat right, don't know about needles, you don't know/have a PCT and worst of all you don't even know how to aspirate a needle. Are you even using a alcohol pad to clean the area before you inject? Have you ever had a deep in the muscle infection? Do you know what is going to happen if you shot gear directly into you bloodstream ? Man you are take some crazy risks.

    My cycle is just fine, I'm already noticing results. I am working on diet, just downloaded FitDay software from www.fitday.com where I can organize all my macronutriet ratio's. Perhaps you should check it out DSM

    Last time I checked I didn't graduate Harvard Medical School, and I never had the pleasure or oportunity to aspirate needles until now. It dosen't take a rocket scientist to figure out how to aspirate a damn syringe.

    I don't use alcohol, I usually like to apply dirt to the area and then inject, it's nicer that way.

    Perhaps you've injected some in your bloodstream already, that would explain your recent fanatical posts.

    Have a pleasant evening...

  36. #36
    DSM4Life's Avatar
    DSM4Life is offline Snook~ AR Lounge Monitor - Recognized Staff Winner - $100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konstandino
    "..To soon to feel effects from only 1 sus injection on my glute which is still sore..."

    "...My cycle is just fine, I'm already noticing results.."

    Really how much weight have you put on from the first shot ?

    You are providing the entrainment man.

  37. #37
    Konstandino's Avatar
    Konstandino is offline Banned
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    My trainer, who is a powerlifter and competes on a regular basis, has won competitions and all, gave me my first injection. Next week he is going to do delts. We have a system, I am reading as much as I can and trying to learn as fast as I can.

    How dare you judge me, you know nothing about me.

    I'm slowly realizing that certain people on these boards are quit psychologically ill, don't know if I should attribute it to steroids or personality disorders and ego trips. Instead of helping and guiding someone who has similar goals, we immediately judge them, bring them down and make them feel lower so that we can feel superior.

    DSM, this is not High School anymore, grow up!

  38. #38
    SwoleCat is offline AR Hall of Fame
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    Better than late night comedy!!



    Wow...

    ~SC~

  39. #39
    Konstandino's Avatar
    Konstandino is offline Banned
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    Glad I could be of service...

  40. #40
    SwoleCat is offline AR Hall of Fame
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    How the hell are you going to report a post you started when all you are doing is arguing with people helping you?

    I won't even put what you cried in the report, I'll just lock this so the stupidity ceases.

    Don't let this happen again.

    ~SC~

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