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  1. #1
    Iwan2bsolid2's Avatar
    Iwan2bsolid2 is offline Senior Member
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    Unhappy *Damn....what Do I Do- Free Test?

    Ok, I got my back my blood Test results. Good and bad. Good part in now I know why I haven't felt myself for the last few years, depressed, no sex drive, not making gains in the gym. Bad part is my Testosterone levels are low. I'm 24 years old and my Testosterone levels are low This was my Test results: Free Test (scale)[47-244] mine=57. Total Test (scale)[400-1100] mine=255. THATS FUCKED UP!!!
    Now this is where I don't know what to do or how to go about doing it. My doctor said he would give me Test injections, but I'm not sure how much and if it will be beneficial to bodybuilding. I will be being monitored now I'm sure -so personal supplementation is outta the question. So as you can see I kinda fucked myself in a way cause now I kinda have to go through with this and now can't take matters upon myself and just start hitting 500mg a wk. Plus, I will probably have to pay a ridiculous amount for the shit legally instead of on the black market. Plus, I don't know if doc know's about all the anti E's, post cycle therapy , and stuff. And now I can't stack anything with it ( I just ordered some anavar BTW) cause it will fuck with the monitered blood test I will be taking- right? I need to devise a plan of attack to take in with me when I see the doc tommorow, so I can try to get what I need. So, I need your help people, my doc is cool, how can I go about getting enough Test supplementation to make it beneficial for growing and putting on some mass while increasing my libido and mental well being? I'm stressing out thinking about this.

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    Last edited by Iwan2bsolid2; 06-14-2002 at 01:17 AM.

  2. #2
    Iron horse's Avatar
    Iron horse is offline Anabolic Member
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    tough friggin call...

    how often is your testosterone monitored?

  3. #3
    Iwan2bsolid2's Avatar
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    I've heard like 2 times a year, every 6 months.

  4. #4
    Iron horse's Avatar
    Iron horse is offline Anabolic Member
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    dude, just make sure your not on extra gear when you go for tests!

    ie: after test do a cycle, then that will give you plenty of time before your test every 6 months to go to your normal range.

    in others opinions, is this ok?

  5. #5
    Iwan2bsolid2's Avatar
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    I have a question, if I supplement on top of doc's perscription add more test/anabolics/androgens- since I'm on HRT- I will never need post cycle therapy again right? Shit will this effect having kids?

  6. #6
    Iron horse's Avatar
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    Im GUESSING if your on small amounts of test most the time that that it won't kill your chances of being a father.

    if your on HRT, think about it like a bridge, just a very long bridge.
    and more anabolic !

  7. #7
    Iwan2bsolid2's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    I guess my thread "title" is keeping others from responding. Did I break the rules by cursing? Hmm. Well thanks for your help Iron horse, thanks for caring.

  8. #8
    bigkev's Avatar
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    i am no expert on legal test(lol), but i do know that the amount you will get wont be enough to help your quest for biggness, in fact, you will probably get the patch(transdermal) which is useless for what we do. if you do go black market and start your own cycle, your levels will be way high and they will freak and think something is wrong with your system. you have a medical condition, the best advice i can give you is to follow your doctors instructions.

  9. #9
    bigkev's Avatar
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    pm TNT bro. he will beable to give you a good, detailed answer i am sure.

  10. #10
    G-S Guest
    Originally posted by bigkev
    pm TNT bro. he will beable to give you a good, detailed answer i am sure.
    Very true.

  11. #11
    JohnnyB's Avatar
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    Hey Bro don't feel bad I got my test results back and I'm at 72 tt. Check it out.
    http://www.anabolicreview.com/vbulle...threadid=24105

    JohnnyB

  12. #12
    Iwan2bsolid2's Avatar
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    Originally posted by bigkev
    pm TNT bro. he will beable to give you a good, detailed answer i am sure.
    LOL! I was wondering where the hell he was. Kev- doc told me that he recommends the injections over the gel or patches, so I'll be getting injects for sure. And yes, if I do supplement more on my own I will just have to make sure it's fast acting like Prop or something. Most likely I will also be able to get perscription anti- E's. Just need to figure out how I can bring them up to the doc and make it sound like I'm not spending hours a day on a anabolic 's board .

    JhonnyB- your pretty low to bro, was that 72 Total Test or Free Test. If it was Total Test then that is very low, but what really matters is free test- so I have been told. Anyways, I hope things work out for you my friend I'm half your age bro and having to deal with this, but after reading Tocks post- I'm really hoping this does make a change in my life, I need to be human again. I don't know how he's getting 200mg a week perscribed that seems like alot for a perscription, hope he see's this thread and chimes in cause I'd like to ask him a few question's. Let me know how things go for you Jhonny- this will be the I need test back in my life thread. Oh, and by the way about the hard to get rid of fat part, my diet has almost never been cleaner and I'm having a hell of a time loosing fat. This is a truely F$$ked up problem.

  13. #13
    TNT's Avatar
    TNT
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    No PM necessary: I have arrived!

    (Okay, let me get it out of the way . . . I feel like doing the Mighty Mouse theme... "Here I come to save the day!" But seriously, folks...)

    Don't sweat the situation, Iwan2bsolid2. And do go with injectable test - both the gel and the patches do squat.

    Remember that the only two injectables prescribed in the U.S. are Delatestryl (enanthate ) and Depo-Testosterone (cypionate ). Between the two, you'll get twice the value with the Depo-Test. (Both are the same price, but you only get 5 ml of Delatestryl in a vial versus 10 ml of Depo-Test at the same strength.)

    Now, how do you skew the picture in your favor so the doctor won't catch you at high levels? Very simple: Remember that the effective period of both enanthate and cypionate is about 10 days. Therefore, you will have no problem increasing your dosage into cycle range if you drop it back to your prescription range about two weeks before getting your next lab work done. Then make sure you get the lab work done at the trough level (the valley point as opposed to the peak point). (In other words, get your labs done two weeks after your last injection, but before you take your next injection. And as soon as the blood has been drawn, you can inject up again and have a blast.)

    In the meantime, consider yourself lucky. The total test norm is 400-1000 only when it is tested along with the free and weakly binding test. The usual total test range is 241-827. SO your results depend on how the test was assayed - it may show as low normal range when you have the total test labwork done by itself.

    If you have never been prone to gyno, don't sweat the anti-e's. Some guys get paranoid and do Nolva or Arimidex right away; my belief is that you shouldn't do it unless you need it. And even if you do, say, 400 mg. of test per week (which is cycle range as opposed to HRT range), chances are that you won't need it if you combine the test with a solid workout routine. And you will make solid gains.

    As for the notion of having to buy legal test, congratulations - you have the opportunity that most guys would love to have: being able to get hold of grade-A, prime, choice, good ol' U-S-of-A testosterone. It's a better quality, purer, and more consistent than any of the Mexican, European, or Russian crap out there. It's made to FDA specs by major pharmaceutical companies, and far surpasses anything you will get on the black market. It has less alcohol content (and will thus burn less) and is manufactured under tight lab conditions. And, if you have a prescription plan that covers injectables, the cost will be less than you think.

    As for post-cycle therapy, if you are on HRT, you may be shooting test for life - there is no "post cycle" as we think about it, although when you come down from cycle strength to prescription strength you may find yourself fatigued for a week or so. Nonetheless, this may be a good time to feel out where your doctor is coming from on issues like Clomid, Nolva, etc. - just in case you do need any of them. (Remember that many doctors will not prescribe "outside the box," meaning that they will not prescribe drugs for a purpose which is not listed in the Physician's Desk Reference. But some will - this is a good time to find out what your might do in the future.)

  14. #14
    Iwan2bsolid2's Avatar
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    There you are my man thanks for coming to the rescue...now I can sleep much better tonight. I have a couple questions- why would I only get 5ml of the enanthate and 10 ml of the cypionate ? If that's the case I'm for sure chosing the cypionate. What US company make these Testosterone 's? Upjhon? And yes, I'm prone to gyno or estrogenic fatty deposits, since puberty I have had stubborn fat on my lower chest so I will try to get some anti E's as well. Hell, down the road I might even try to get surgery and say that I got gyno from the test injections. Will this affect me having children in the future, and will I have raisen nut's for life? If so, can I hit up some HCG to keep the balls swingin? Thanks alot guys, this is a hard thing to deal with and I feel alot better now that I have some concerning questioned answered.

    SOLID

  15. #15
    TNT's Avatar
    TNT
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    The difference between enanthate and cypionate in terms of quantity is simply based on how they are manufactured. Delatestryl is sold in a 5 ml vial at 200 mg/ml because that's how BTG/Bristol Myers Squibb makes it. Upjohn/Pharmacia manufactures Depo-Testosterone in a 10 ml vial at 200 mg/ml. Yet both are the same retail price (about $75-100), which means that you get twice as much bang for the buck with the Depo-Testosterone. However, make sure the prescription is written for teh 200 mg/ml strength, since Depo-Testosterone also comes in a 100 mg/ml strength (which means that you would have to inject twice as much to get the same effect).

    If you are already prone to gyno and it is at the point that surgery is indicated, most insurance plans will cover it (even though they wouldn't cover a specifically cosmetic procedure like a nose job or face lift). But talk to your doctor about this for more information, since he or she will probably be more familiar with your specific plan. (If not, talk to the doc's billing clerk or contact a plastic surgeon.) The test may or may not aggravate any existing proclivity toward gyno - it's unpredictable.

    No, your ability to have children will not be impacted, but do talk to your doctor about HCG , which may or may not help in a medical situation.

    In the meantime, I want you to try a new way of thinking: as a proactive patient. The more unusual a condition, the more patients tend to educate themselves about their particular condition. This has always been the case with diseases and disorders such as multiple sclerosis, adrenoleukodystrophy (remember the film Lorenzo's Oil?), ALD, AIDS, Chron's Disease, and a host of disabilities.

    The most common condition that results in low testosterone levels is [i]hypogonadism[/ui] - in fact, it's used as the diagnosis for the majority of low test cases (unless the patient is a young male, in which case a more likely diagnosis is delayed puberty). So take a proactive step and learn what your doctor know about it. Or what he or she doesn't know, since most family physicians and general practitioners do not have as much knowledge of this area as endocrinologists.

    You'll find the guidelines used by doctors at http://www.aace.com/clin/guidelines, the web site of the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists. Download the guidelines for Hypogonadism, which are in a PDF (Adobe Acrobat) file and print them out. These guidelines will tell you everything you need to know about testosterone replacement therapy. Read them and take them with you to the doctor. In addition to informing you, they will demonstrate to your doc that you have done your research, which will put more of the decision making ability into your hands.

    And, since your doctor has been open thus far, ask him or her any questions about your general AS use. Be subtle, but do be honest, since AS use will have an impact on your general health (hopefully a good one), let alone on your test levels.

  16. #16
    Iwan2bsolid2's Avatar
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    Wink

    thanks again TNT. I will print that out and take it with me tommorow.

  17. #17
    wrj
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    Why not try some clomid and HCG to raise your levels and then go for another test a few months after that cycle. If that doesn't work then you should definitely follow your docs advice.

  18. #18
    Iwan2bsolid2's Avatar
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    TNT, that hypogonadism read was excellent- thank you...I feel more informed than I could ever be now by a physician themself.

  19. #19
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    Iwan2bsolid2, it's at 72 TT, but I'm going use all this info to my advantage.

    JohnnyB

  20. #20
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    Arrow

    Well just got back from the doctor. He gave me a 200mg shot of Cyp. I don't get another for 14 days , they were going to schedule me to come back in 17 days later and I was like no I don't think so- you'll be jabbing my ass again no later than 14. The doctor said we will continue the Testosterone injections for a couple months to see if I feel better...if not- then no reason to keep administrating the injections- if so- then I will most likely be put on HRT. So, the shitty thing is now I can't start my cycle cause in 5 weeks I will have to do blood work again. I just ordered some Var too. Do you think I can still hit the Var up and then drop them a day before I have the blood work done? Then start them again afterwards?


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  21. #21
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    Bro if i were you i would thank him for the test and take matters into my own hands. The dose the doc is going to give you will be to only bring your Test levels to normal. This dose will not help you with gains at te gym. I believe the dose is 200mg/week. Not 100% shure though. Tell the doc that you are going to tru some alternative/natural remedies to help bring them up, and run the sh!@ yourself. At least now you know what the problem was. Just my 2cents.

  22. #22
    bradbuck is offline New Member
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    Are you seeing a GP or an endo. Have they diagnoised you with primary or secondary hypogonadism. From what I have read long term T replacement will shut down your LH and FSH. After 2 months on gels my results came back with them as undetectable. Many endo's will put you on HCG if you are planning on having kids. And my lab tests for E2 comes in at 30 (0-50) the morning after 500iu. And my T is 1100at that time and upper 600's 72 hours later. so E is not a problem for me.

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