as to break a plateau, not to pack on 45lb????

**lxorl** · 11-13-2002, 07:23 AM

Just interested in some opinions.... For those of us out there that are not trying to blow up to 300 lb, and those of us who are not doing competitions. I was wondering what type of cycle would be recomended to boost beyond a plateau. And, Im not just talking about doing a cycle for the sake of doing a cycle!!!

I am talking about those out there, that have been lifting for years, know they have reached their genetic potential, and reached their max with supplements. Any recomendations on what as, or cycle should be used for a little boost over the edge?

I am not necessarly asking for myself, but thought there might be others out there with a similar question.

I would think it would be pointless, and a waste of money to put together a 3-4 drug cycle only to break through a dead end in the road, or to put on an extra 5-10 lb...

any thoughts??

**majorpecs** · 11-13-2002, 07:28 AM

FINA....I've never done it, but if I ever come to a strength plateau due to genetic inhibitions....that's what I am gonna try. FINA is the best for strenght gains!! (from what I hear, not experience). I am interested in peoples opinions on this one..BUMP

**lxorl** · 11-13-2002, 07:31 AM

I started a cycle of

A-50
EQ week 1-10
fina week 9-13

after two days of the a-50 i realized that i couldnt deal with the way it was making me feel for the next month, and decided to dump the a-50 from my cycle. Not to mention I didnt want to swell up 30lb and look bloated. I am hoping my source will let me trade him back the a-50 for something to put on the end of my cycle, possibly some winny?? Any other suggestions? I know everyone will suggest test, lol, but i know that will give that smooth look, and i want the tight cut look... that is why i am going with the EQ, and fina so far.

I realized my goal was more to break a plateau and move on, not to blow up!!! And hopefully in the process put on a FEW pounds of LEAN muscle. I am currently 25 years old... 6'2 200lb with 9%bf

**majorpecs** · 11-13-2002, 07:43 AM

Originally posted by lxorl
I started a cycle of

I realized my goal was more to break a plateau and move on, not to blow up!!! And hopefully in the process put on a FEW pounds of LEAN muscle. I am currently 25 years old... 6'2 200lb with 9%bf

if that's your goal..then the cycle you are doing will def accomplish that. You can't help but to gain a few lbs of lbm while on a cycle I am sure, and you def gotta bust through any strength plateaus..keep your lifting intense and I believe you will accomplish more than you thought!

**lxorl** · 11-13-2002, 07:50 AM

well I am hoping my source will trade me something for the a-50.... what should I try and get? Winny? I know that is great for giving quailty muscle while aiding in cutting...... but, i also know winny is more expensive.... can you think of any other options that will go well with the EQ and Fina, and will fit with in my goals.

Do you agree that it was a good idea to drop the A-50, from the stand point of my goals? not to mention, it was making me feel so shitty that i couldnt Work, let alone work out!!!

**majorpecs** · 11-13-2002, 07:53 AM

I don't have personal experience iwth a50, but have heard that it's much like DBOL in that it is major bloat, good pretty much only for a kick start to the cycle. I'd say it's a good choice to drop it as your goal isn't to bulk up. And winny, imho, is a good addition to any cycle that involves cutting up!!

I've never heard of an EQ/Fina only stack...I will bump this for someone with more experience..

**lxorl** · 11-13-2002, 07:56 AM

see the thing is i would still like to put on a few lb.... just not a rediculous amount... I think with my eating I will still add some weight... well I hope. I just want it to be lean gains... in other words, i dont want to have to cut after... like I said 5-10 lb and then hopefully drop my bf% a few points

**str82hellnback** · 11-13-2002, 08:28 AM

If all you want to do is gain 5-10 pounds then I think the best thing for you to do is to re-evaluate all aspects of your bodybuilding program.

1st- is your nutrition plan geared towards your goals? Are you taking in a sufficient amount of protein and carbohydrates to gain an adequate amount of muscle to suit your desires? Are you getting a full array of nutrients to your muscles? If not then supplement with a potent multivitamin.

2nd- supplementation- If you are knowledgable about supplements and they're effects then you can use them effectively to gain 5-10 pounds. Have you incorporated a post workout meal that is effective? if not then we can surely help you out. Also are you taking glutamine and creatine after your workout? If not you may want to consider b/c many first time creatine users experience a rapid 5-10 pound weight gain, combine creatine with your post workout coctail and your golden for 5-10 lean pounds

3rd- has your training program been stagnent? are you lifting heavy weights and really pushing yourself? If not then you should b/c a lil change in intensity under the bar will result in a big change in your body. Also has your lifting regimen remained consistant over a long period? If so then your body is immune to the lifting and is simply using it to survive and proceed as normal,if you change up your routine your body will consistantly be shocked into tearing more muscle and burning more fat, both of which will enable you to build more muscle when combined with your nutrition and supplementation esp. your post workout coctail

4th- are you too stressed out lately? too much stress can actually be catabolic to the muscle and will definately hinder lean gains if not actually promote fat gains are you getting enough rest? you surely need an ample amount of rest to build those muscles that you work so hard on tearing down

Well my friend dont even consider using any AAS until you have evaluated where you stand and how your dedication measures up to your goals. 5-10 pounds is very easy if you just incorporate the 4 elements that I talked about. peace

**str82hellnback** · 11-13-2002, 08:34 AM

My previous post is not what you were looking for but I dont know if I believe there is a genetic potential,if there is a genetic potential then it quickly turns into a genetic downhill where you are on a constant depleting of bone and muscle mass,that is called old age my friend. I believe that there is a mental potential and that is how far and how hard you are willing to push yourself to get where you want. May I ask how old you are mate? and are you in good health? if so then you should have no problem gaining 5-10 pounds naturally wether you think you have hit your genetic potential or not, I believe that many gains experienced bye avid AAS users are contributed towards the placebo effect and that they have a new desire and excitement about lifting due to the AAS and they're mental capacity. If you would train and lift and supplement like you were actually on AAS then your gains could prove to be significant. What I stated is merely an opinion and I may be flamed on this but go ahead,its just from what ive observed and what I believe,but for me, ill never hit a genetic potential,ill hit old age and began a slow downfall but bye that time my bodybuilding days will be long and over. peace

**lxorl** · 11-13-2002, 08:47 AM

i have been lifting for 8 years, i have been studying and using supplements for atleast 5 years.. I have used creatine countless times... and it still gives me a small boost but that only lasts 2 weeks tops.... I supplement glutamine between 10-20 g/day, I supplement 2 tbs flaxseed oil a day. My diet is high protine, includint 2-3 servings of whey a day.... Rest is pretty good, but i do work so i do what i can.

I have run a cycle once before of Dbol and Deca , and moderate dosages. I am currently running

EQ 400mg / week 10 weeks
fina week 9-13

I had to drop the A-50 i was initially planning on running with this cycle, because my body couldnt handle it.

Like i said, I wouldnt consider this a bulking cycle as im not trying to pack on 30 lb. although, i would like to add 5-10 lb of quality muscle. Again like I said I have years of experience of lifting, nutrition for body building.... My experience with AAs is not great, but I have been researching for close to a year, so I have a decent understanding.

I am 25 years old...... 6'2 200lb and 9% bf... i may even be in the 8.x range of bf at this point..... I would like to be around 210 with 6% when all is said and done....

any feed back?

also, if i can trade the a-50 what you think i should try and get? remember that i have already started the EQ, but this is the first week. so, realistically i would be looking for something to add near the end with the fina.... any suggestions? Winny?

**nj_** · 11-13-2002, 10:50 AM

Add Winny with the Fina. Fina/EQ/Winny is a killer stack. A friend of mine did that and he got shredded and made massive strength gains on it. Personally I'd do wk 6-12 Fina/Winny @ 75 & 50mg ED

**str82hellnback** · 11-13-2002, 11:02 AM

lxorl- you have already achieved muscular maturity and good development so maybe a small cycle to break a 5-15 pound barrier is just what the doctor ordered. You seem very knowledgable so I assume that the nutrition and supplementation are in place. Just make sure your changing your routine consistantly to shock your body. If I were in your position I would stack Equipoise and Winny. go with 400mg of equipoise/week and finish the last four weeks with winny 50 mg ed

**lxorl** · 11-13-2002, 11:13 AM

I would like to think I know more or less what I am doing at this point.... I think the hardest thing is keeping the training routine fresh. I guess my change for now is just trying to lift as heavy as possible. For the most part i do the same core exercises, but i try to do them in a different order, and use drop sets to burn out.

I am already running the EQ at 400mg/week and i am in week 1. will bring the fina in to the mix in about another month. I would love to add some winny, but have spent a good bit of money so far. so, unless i will be able to trade my source the a-50 I have for the winny then I will have to do with out.... Im not too sure if he will be willing to trade, because I know winny is expensive... If not winny, maybe he will trade me for some clen .... Who knows for sure...

**latman49** · 11-13-2002, 01:27 PM

The fina alone will give you the 10 pounds you are looking for and more strength than you thought was possible. IMO, I would go ahead and run the fina concurrent with the EQ instead of waiting til week 9. Alot of guys say not to run Fina for more than 6 weeks, but I'm 5 weeks into my fina cycle and everything is fine. I will be running it for 10 weeks. I think fina's toxicity is overrated.

If you want to wait, get some winny and go with what nj said, fina/winny for 6 weeks at the end.

**lxorl** · 11-13-2002, 01:46 PM

yeah i just ordered a second batch of fina.... so i will probably just start the fina when batch 2 comes in.... i wanted to run it late so i could be on the fina while i am waiting the eq to clear my system... ie till week 13 and then i could just start clomid right away..... Ill probably start fina in about another 3 weeks i am guessing...

I will have 2 2g kits.... so that should be roughly 40CC if 75mg ?? right? I am planning on shooting Sun, Tues, Thurs. how many CC should I shoot at a time.... I have not worked the math out yet... so 2cc a shot gives me 150ml 3 times a week, so I could run the fina roughly 6 weeks...

maybe ill cut it back to 1.5cc per shot... and run it a little longer? or run it for 5 weeks, and increase the dosage as i go.... any thoughts???

**still growin** · 11-13-2002, 02:00 PM

If your trying to break a plateau, look into anavar . It is a mild steroid associated with big strength gains and low mass gains. A little pricey, but sounds real good to me.

**lxorl** · 11-13-2002, 02:03 PM

too late now.... I have already started my cycle... just need to figure out when ill be starting the fina and at what dosage... and possibly if Ill be ablel to trade the A-50 I have for some winny, or clen ....

**landshark** · 11-13-2002, 02:39 PM

add PROP, bump up the EQ. Good luck.

**lxorl** · 11-13-2002, 02:39 PM

cant bump up the EQ, i have what I have......

**solid-d** · 11-13-2002, 03:17 PM

Someone talked about changing the lifting exercises around to shock the muscles more...How and what are good ways of doing this?? Is rep # important, like 15-20 reps one week, instead of the 5-9rep range... Stricker form and slower movements with lighter weight, but still same reps??? Please give some more examples of shocking muscles...

**lxorl** · 11-13-2002, 03:22 PM

what you have said is one way of doing it... although 15-20 reps is way to high in my opinion..... i have been told never to over 8 by a big time body builder...

Like I said, i usually do the same basic exercises, just mix up the order... you can do a drop set on your last set... you could do 3 drop sets, you could do 5 sets per exercise instead of 3, pretty much any way you can think of to change up your routine..... your body gets used to the same thing over and over

**latman49** · 11-13-2002, 10:22 PM

lxorl, you will get better results if you shoot 75mg Fina every day instead of 150 EOD.

Solid-d, when my routine gets stale and I need to make a change, I will go to an all power lift workout for 2 weeks....nothing but lots of cleans, deads, squats, rows, flat bench....all with heavy weight for 3-6 reps(5 sets). On arm day I use nothing but low rep, heavy barbell cheat curls and overhead tri extensions. Then I will go back to my normal routine.

**lxorl** · 11-14-2002, 06:56 AM

Does it really make that big of a difference if you shoot the fina ED or EOD? if thats the case, ill have to get more pinz..... Do you know this from experience?

**Rugby13** · 11-14-2002, 05:46 PM

Originally posted by lxorl
I will have 2 2g kits.... so that should be roughly 40CC if 75mg ?? right? I am planning on shooting Sun, Tues, Thurs. how many CC should I shoot at a time.... I have not worked the math out yet... so 2cc a shot gives me 150ml 3 times a week, so I could run the fina roughly 6 weeks...
maybe ill cut it back to 1.5cc per shot... and run it a little longer? or run it for 5 weeks, and increase the dosage as i go.... any thoughts???

I'd say:
EQ 400mg wk: weeks 1 - 10
Fina: 75mg ed instead of 150mg eod for weeks 6 - 13 It's a lot of sticking yourself but it's worth it. This is perfect for your goals you want to accomplish. I'm doing a fina only cycle and love it. Solid mass gains but unbelievable strength gains. BTW I got 24cc's each out of my 2g kits at 75mg/ml

**Rugby13** · 11-14-2002, 05:48 PM

Originally posted by lxorl
Does it really make that big of a difference if you shoot the fina ED or EOD? if thats the case, ill have to get more pinz..... Do you know this from experience?

I definately felt an improvement when I changed to ed on the fina. It's just saturates your systems better IMO