Which cycle would fit my goals?

**m16a2** · 02-02-2003, 02:24 AM

I am trying to plan my next cycle early but I am in a situation due to the price of the cycle I want to run.

I had my heart set on winny/eq/test cycle but I'm pricing it over 700 bucks and that's simply too much.

So, I thought I would take some opinions from the bros on whether a different cycle might be more effective.

My goal for the next cycle is to gain LEAN muscle mass, hopefully cut some bf (esp around the gut). I have been doing pre-meal cardio for about 30 mins EOD and I definitely feel more fit right now. My last cycle was a bulker, and my goals for this cycle include definitely loosing some BF. Right now I have a large frame... as in, I have broad shoulders, a large back, 6'1 etc. But underneath the shirt, there is a damned gut sitting there along with some chest fat. During the bulking cycle, the mass was really bulky (hence the name). Since the hope is to look thinner and more fit, I want the muscle to be lean and cut.

As for my diet, it will basically be the usual high protein, low carb, very low fat diet. Protein supps, protein products (tuna, egg whites, etc), occasional fruits/veggies, and complex carbs from wheat products.

The cycles I have in my head are all variations of test and eq @ 12 and winny at the last 5-6, or maybe just eq and winny. I considered fina, but I'm not totally confident that fina is the right cycle for me (although I'm going to love trying it for the first time!).

Does anyone have any suggestions?

**Matt Foley** · 02-02-2003, 03:34 AM

im surprised you cant get that cycle for under 700. how about winny/test/fina not that much cheaper but i would go with that.and your ancillaries.how much test do you plan to run?

**Disposable_Hero** · 02-02-2003, 04:04 AM

Definately consider fina, it will cut the cost of your cycle way down if you make it yourself. You sound like you could benefit from clen too if your looking to loose fat..as for your cycle, maybe something likes this:

Weeks 1-12: 500mg Test
Weeks 1-12: 400mg EQ
Weeks 7-12: 75mg Fina ED
-Clen/Liquidex

You might want to adjust the test dosage to whatever you have run in the past..

**m16a2** · 02-02-2003, 02:38 PM

I've run test @ 400-600 in the last cycle so I think 500 should be effective, but I'm not certain. One of the reasons I bumped it up to 600 was because it was TT enantate, which I suspected was underdosed. I am actually using clen in my pre-cycle to cut some fat before getting on AAS again.

The reason the cycle is expensive is its 3 bottles of eq, 3 of test, and 2 of winny 50 or 1 winny 100. EQ and winny are some expensive aas! I set aside some money to buy this cycle with, but not that much! The difference between running fina vs. winny to solidify gains is only going to be a nominal amount of money imo.

And running test/eq till 12 and then fina to 12 will be one bitch during week 13 when the fina shuts me down hard, and I can't start clomid for another 2 weeks.

**monstercojones** · 02-02-2003, 02:43 PM

Fina will cover you for size, strength, and hardness. on a tight budget- theres nothing better.

In your situation I'd run...

weeks 1-8 fina 75 mg ED
weeks 1-8 prop 75 MG ED (525 mg a week)

great for strength and size gains. and if you wanna burn some fat, why not run clen throughout?

**m16a2** · 02-02-2003, 02:58 PM

monster - definitely fina and prop are a great combo for a low budget so your absolutely right. I'm not sure that I could do ed of fina and prop since I have never spot injected, and actually, I've never hit anywhere but the glutes. 8 weeks of prop sounds like a bit much, maybe I'm wrong.

**Matt Foley** · 02-02-2003, 03:20 PM

Originally posted by rampage76
monster - definitely fina and prop are a great combo for a low budget so your absolutely right. I'm not sure that I could do ed of fina and prop since I have never spot injected, and actually, I've never hit anywhere but the glutes. 8 weeks of prop sounds like a bit much, maybe I'm wrong.

bro i dont know where you get your gear from but i could get that entire cycle for under 5 bills thats running zambon 5 wks.prop is a good option here and no probs running it 8 wks the only prob is running ed injects which will be done if you go with fina anyways.spot injects are a breeze.
prop/winny/fina is a great cutting cycle bro your not dealing with the ester so it will be a bit leaner.

**Warrior** · 02-02-2003, 03:24 PM

Trenbolone with Equipoise would cover the bases well. Personally Tren with Test Prop gives me awesome lean gains - but not much in fat loss... probably associated with the estrogenic activity of testosterone .

If you are dieting down the highly androgenic Trenbolone would help a lot - and unlike test, without any estrogen conversion. Stacked with Equipoise, it would improve vascularity - but be sure to keep clean foods around... Equipoise increases appetite - big time...

If your bodyfat is above 12 percent but you hold a lot of quality muscle that you are trying to retain - I would say Tren/Win would be an even better option to diet down with.

I am personally running Tren/Prop (75/50 ED) for 40 days followed by Tren/Win (75/50 ED) for the final 40 days. Almost finished with the Tren/Prop portion and I have lost no weight. I am actually up 10lbs (262 lbs) of very lean weight. So bodyfat is dropping - mostly from an increase in lean weight. Taking the estrogen out by switching to Winstrol I hope to see faster fat loss. But I won't know my findings on this for another 40 days. But my gut feeling says this will end up being a personal favorite...

BTW - 8-10 weeks of testosterone is very common. Whether it is propinate or any other ester weight for that mater...

**m16a2** · 02-02-2003, 05:57 PM

How would I plan a Tren /EQ cycle? I know EQ takes weeks to kick in, while tren is much faster. Since the ideal eq cycle has 12 weeks, how would I schedule the tren with that?

Would tren/winny be a better cycle considering that I definitely want to loose bf and I do have above 12% for sure. I would guess that my bf is around 16-18% maybe. Maybe leaving EQ out of the cycle would help since it might prevent me from dieting. Also, would a tren/winny cycle have no estrogen conversion?

Please keep us updated on how the winny/fina goes. From what I've heard it is supposed to be amazing for lean gains and cuts.

About the prop, I was referring to the painful prop spot-injections for too long. I would rather use prop to jumpstart a cycle that includes a long acting test ester.

**monstercojones** · 02-02-2003, 06:00 PM

run EQ at 600 mg weeks 1-12 and the tren at 75 mg ED for weeks 4-12

just my opinion...

**Warrior** · 02-02-2003, 07:09 PM

Blurb on Prop: it is not the propinate ester that causes irritation - it is the brand you choose. Using British Ferring Verimone Propinate - I got mild soreness the first week - but currently get no pain whatsoever.

Blurb on Equipoise: Boldenone Undecanoate take weeks to grab a hold due to the extremely long ester weight. It takes a healthy dose because of the ester's weight and a good frontload to get it running.

Frontload it! I got a PM from another member trying to figure out a good frontload for Undecanoate. When sitting down and figuring it out you have to take into account the half life and active life. Undecanoate's half life is about 5-7 days and remains actve for about 21 days. Without actually writing it down on paper to figure it out - double the maintenance dose should be pretty close with nearly any ester length...

For example, in the middle of a cycle of 400mg per week you would be maintaining close to 800mg per week total blood levels (400mg from current week's injection, 200mg from previous week, about 100mg from week before that, and about 30-40mg from the week before that). Just because you are administering 400mg per week - the ester length means you are actually getting much more per week. And why wait for blood levels to raise? Fromtload it and start off at the maintenance range. And frontloading a 400mg/wk Eq cycle - 800mg the first week seems to be close. See why frontloading is mandatory - especially with long esters? Frontload it and you will cut off about 3 weeks of waiting time and start seeing results in as little as 2-3 weeks.

For YOU: I would say focus on strict diet and cardio for 4-6 weeks, get your bodyfat down. Then jump on 6 weeks of Tren /Winstrol (75/50 ED) to further dial it in.

Neither Trenbolone nor Winstrol is capable of converting to estrogen. The only down side to this is some estrogen conversion is needed for normal endocrine function. But 6 weeks (75mg per day of Tren and 50mg per day of Winstrol) should have little negative effect on cholesterol or other adverse effects from a highly androgenic cycle without estrogen conversion. Just keep up with proper nutrition and basic supplements.