Use Steroids & Need TRT - Fact

**Metalject** · 02-20-2013, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by MR10X

I started using AAS in the early 80's,used them for 4 or 5 years 2 or 3 cycles a year at age 34. Back then PCT wasnt done for lack of knowledge about it. I used high doses low doses,Deca ,finaject,stuff that shuts you dont "hard" as they say. Kept my cycles shorter than what some guys use now 8 to 10 weeks is what i did.Is my Hpta system damaged NO,my last bloodwork showed my test levels in the normal range 502. Sure older guys might need TRT because their levels are too low,low test levels are not healthy for the body.I also still train,which may or may not keep my test levels up. In my case your assumption everyone OR most guys will need TRT is wrong.If you use really high doses and stay on them for a long periods of time will you need TRT...probably. Will you benifit from TRT later in life whether you uses AAS or not..probably This statement is totally wrong.....It didnt apply to me and i didnt even use the safest way possible (years of use and no PCT) It doesnt get any more unsafe than that..

To quote you:

"In my opinion, if you’re going to be a steroid user, even if you’re going to follow the safest ways of use possible, your best bet is to assume you will end up on a TRT plan at some point regardless. If this is an idea you can’t handle, you shouldn’t use steroids "

heres a link to an interview with Dorian Yates,he states he used steroids for 7 years while he was a pro.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNqR-...utu.be&t=5m10s

*I said there's a good chance you'll need TRT. I never said you absolutely will need TRT.

*I said the idea that supplementing the safest way possible by no means guaranteed you wouldn't need TRT. The same in the opposite effect could be said of those who don't supplement in the safest way possible. I can't remember if I said it in this thread or the one by Bear that I referenced in this thread but I did state there are always exceptions.

*I said it's best to assume, assume does not mean it's guaranteed but the healthiest approach you can take in anything in life is to consider all possible outcomes and never assume you're special and basic things don't apply to you.

*Regarding you specifically "MR10X" how do you know you wouldn't benefit from TRT? Your total levels are not in the low range but they are nowhere near the optimal range. What about your free levels? How old are you now? As you age your SHBG goes up, which will reduce the amount of free testosterone you have available. Things to consdier

**warmouth** · 02-20-2013, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by bigsiv

Again to air on the other side IMO it is IMPORTANT these message boards are read by a lot of impressionable people young and mature and all they need is someone telling them what they want to hear so they have the 'permission' to mess about with hormones when they are not ready. Lets not forget Anabolics can be dangerous in the wrong hands if abused both physically and mentally.

He is only giving a different point of view. Any stubborn young guy isn't going to listen to his theory anymore than anyone else's. This is a public forum that needs diversity and debates like this. It gives people more opportunities to decide for themselves and not be terrified, or be terrified. I know metalject isn't implying that kids get on, he is just giving a point of view from a different perspective. Its been a great read. Even if a young guy reads this (and I hope they do), they can see 2 very different sides, both sides with compelling arguements, and make a wiser decision for themselves. Diversity on these boards is a good thing man. Metaljest isn't steering anyone wrong, just giving non-typical advice. I guarantee you he is more concerned with the overall health and well being of all ages then to give bad advice. Ive learned a lot and taken tons of notes from both sides in this thread and it has helped me tremendously. Its refreshing to be able to see and read something different than the same things 50 different times a day. You don't have to agree with him or mickey, or anyone else for that matter, but this thread is chocked full of knowledge that guys like you and I should be taking note of and absorbing all we can. This thread has turned brilliant for us who are wanting to learn all we can.

**bigsiv** · 02-20-2013, 03:08 PM

Listen metalject your point was not lost on me I get it. I get the title and the thread content, but you have to understand that by putting your opinion out there especially one as controversial (IMO) as yours you have to look at the opposite side of the argument even if you don't agree, because as I said before, young OR older guys will use this as an excuse to do what they want.

Anyone and everyone can state and/or prove the opposite point of an argument on this board but safety MUST be addressed first or we are the same as the meatheads in the gym who dish out bro science to anyone who will listen,

**Metalject** · 02-20-2013, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by bigsiv

Listen metalject your point was not lost on me I get it. I get the title and the thread content, but you have to understand that by putting your opinion out there especially one as controversial (IMO) as yours you have to look at the opposite side of the argument even if you don't agree, because as I said before, young OR older guys will use this as an excuse to do what they want.

Anyone and everyone can state and/or prove the opposite point of an argument on this board but safety MUST be addressed first or we are the same as the meatheads in the gym who dish out bro science to anyone who will listen,

I don't think I've made a statement yet that could be interpreted as me attempting to persuade someone to do something damaging. Now if you want to turn something into that you can easily, you can take almost anything anyone says and turn it in to that. Don't believe me? Watch this....

Metalject "Steroids are awesome!"

Complainer "Why are you so irresponsible? You shouldn't say thing like that because it will encourage young guys to use steroids . Young guys shouldn't be told steroids are awesome."

Do you see the problem with this little hypothetical exchange? Yes, it's a bit of an exaggeration of what is normally said; I used this example to show in a simple way that defines basically what you're complaining about here and what so many on this board complain about every day. And this comment isn't an exaggeration....sometimes the complaining and mother-hening that is so prevalent on this board is so outrageous I feel that if I plopped my fat ass on the couch of The View there'd be more testosterone and masculinity.

**bigsiv** · 02-20-2013, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by Metalject

I don't think I've made a statement yet that could be interpreted as me attempting to persuade someone to do something damaging. Now if you want to turn something into that you can easily, you can take almost anything anyone says and turn it in to that. Don't believe me? Watch this....

Metalject "Steroids are awesome!"

Complainer "Why are you so irresponsible? You shouldn't say thing like that because it will encourage young guys to use steroids . Young guys shouldn't be told steroids are awesome."

Do you see the problem with this little hypothetical exchange? Yes, it's a bit of an exaggeration of what is normally said; I used this example to show in a simple way that defines basically what you're complaining about here and what so many on this board complain about every day. And this comment isn't an exaggeration....sometimes the complaining and mother-hening that is so prevalent on this board is so outrageous I feel that if I plopped my fat ass on the couch of The View there'd be more testosterone and masculinity.

??????????? What the hell have you just said ? that makes no sense. Good night!

**warmouth** · 02-20-2013, 08:52 PM

bump....

**MR10X** · 02-20-2013, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by Metalject

*I said there's a good chance you'll need TRT. I never said you absolutely will need TRT.

*I said the idea that supplementing the safest way possible by no means guaranteed you wouldn't need TRT. The same in the opposite effect could be said of those who don't supplement in the safest way possible. I can't remember if I said it in this thread or the one by Bear that I referenced in this thread but I did state there are always exceptions.

*I said it's best to assume, assume does not mean it's guaranteed but the healthiest approach you can take in anything in life is to consider all possible outcomes and never assume you're special and basic things don't apply to you.

*Regarding you specifically "MR10X" how do you know you wouldn't benefit from TRT? Your total levels are not in the low range but they are nowhere near the optimal range. What about your free levels? How old are you now? As you age your SHBG goes up, which will reduce the amount of free testosterone you have available. Things to consdier

My free test was in the normal range also. What would i benefit with higher levels,i would have to go on TRT to do that and i dont want to do that.I cycle my AAS and i also cycle my training,i found that i dont make any noticable gains after 8 weeks on cycle and after 8 weeks of intense training my body needs to recouperate so i back off the hard training and lighten up on my training so i can work up another cycle ready to make more gains. I feel that training for extended periods of time will slow your gains because you reach a sticking point even with AAS. Im 66 now and been traing since 1978,started using AAS in 1980.

**warmouth** · 02-20-2013, 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by MR10X

My free test was in the normal range also. What would i benefit with higher levels,i would have to go on TRT to do that and i dont want to do that.I cycle my AAS and i also cycle my training,i found that i dont make any noticable gains after 8 weeks on cycle and after 8 weeks of intense training my body needs to recouperate so i back off the hard training and lighten up on my training so i can work up another cycle ready to make more gains. I feel that training for extended periods of time will slow your gains because you reach a sticking point even with AAS. Im 66 now and been traing since 1978,started using AAS in 1980.

My free test was normal too, but from the range, didnt care. Normal range 300-1100 and I was 400. Na. No thanks. Since on trt, I'm an entirely different man. Love spending quality time with the wife, not always tired amd depressed, happier than I can ever remember. It took a while for all of this to happen, but now that I'm around 600-700 cant even tell you how happy i am. I now want to be at 1000 but that's just me being selfish

**MR10X** · 02-21-2013, 04:25 AM

I just got finnished with prostrate cancer treatment,i was given shots to shut down my test production to shrink my prostrate for radiation treatment. I was without any test for 6 months and i can tell its much worse than 400 or 500 test levels. Big strenght loss,vertually no pumps and all my joints hurt. Now that my test is coming back theres a big difference in the way i feel. I felt fine with my normal test levels,i didnt have any of the low test symptoms,but i do feel better when im on a cycle. Im old now,have a lot of nagging injuries especially shoulders which prevent me from training the way i use to so my goal is to stay lean and muscular......

**APIs** · 02-21-2013, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by Metalject

I also don't see the possible need for TRT as a risk. I don't even understand how it's viewed as a risk.

Good thread. ^That's just the point. You or I may not see TRT as a "risk" per see. However, there's a large group coming in here with the erroneous belief in thinking they can run numerous cycles with no consequences; as long as they run a proper PCT. Reality is if you're going to experiment with AS, chances are you'll require TRT much sooner in life. People need to weigh this in their decision to cycle or not...

**Metalject** · 02-21-2013, 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by MR10X

My free test was in the normal range also. What would i benefit with higher levels,i would have to go on TRT to do that and i dont want to do that.I cycle my AAS and i also cycle my training,i found that i dont make any noticable gains after 8 weeks on cycle and after 8 weeks of intense training my body needs to recouperate so i back off the hard training and lighten up on my training so i can work up another cycle ready to make more gains. I feel that training for extended periods of time will slow your gains because you reach a sticking point even with AAS. Im 66 now and been traing since 1978,started using AAS in 1980.

If you're in the optimal range all the areas testosterone is responsible for improve, that's why they call it the optimal range...it's optimal. That doesn't mean things necessarily suck at a slightly lower level, but they could definitely be better.

I would be willing to bet you $1,000 if you were at a TRT level during your off-cycle periods you would notice massive improvements in your wellbeing. No way on earth you wouldn't.

**Metalject** · 02-21-2013, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by APIs

Good thread. ^That's just the point. You or I may not see TRT as a "risk" per see. However, there's a large group coming in here with the erroneous belief in thinking they can run numerous cycles with no consequences; as long as they run a proper PCT. Reality is if you're going to experiment with AS, chances are you'll require TRT much sooner in life. People need to weigh this in their decision to cycle or not...

I think some people need to believe that. It helps them to feel better about what they're doing. We all hear steroids are horrible, they'll kill you, make you a rapist, etc. We've all heard all that mess a million times. I think some people, not all but a large number, if they can do away with the idea of any permanent effect associated with use, at least in their mind this helps them justify use a little more. And if you disagree with that, well they'll put words in your mouth and go on and on using words like "responsible" right up and to the point where you throw up in your mouth.

**warmouth** · 02-21-2013, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by MR10X

I just got finnished with prostrate cancer treatment,i was given shots to shut down my test production to shrink my prostrate for radiation treatment. I was without any test for 6 months and i can tell its much worse than 400 or 500 test levels. Big strenght loss,vertually no pumps and all my joints hurt. Now that my test is coming back theres a big difference in the way i feel. I felt fine with my normal test levels,i didnt have any of the low test symptoms,but i do feel better when im on a cycle. Im old now,have a lot of nagging injuries especially shoulders which prevent me from training the way i use to so my goal is to stay lean and muscular......

That's kind of like me. I felt "ok". But once I got on trt, I knew then I really didn't feel ok. My life has drastically changed for the better. For me, the normal range wasnt good enough. The optimal range was perfect! I'm still a little lower than I want, but I'm perdectly fine where I'm at.