Successfully Planning First Cutting Cycle: The Good & The Bad

[enystrom]

Below is a full cycle work up, I am confident I have most of my p's and q's down. I wrote this up so others can see what acutally goes into planning a full cycle for cutting. Its a long read but I researched this in the Anabolics book by William Llewellyn and answered as many questions I could for the newbs and the senior bodybuilding group can perfect my cycle below, if your up for a challenge, tweaks, tips, bro science appreciated. [B]

Stats: 33 age
Wt: 212lbs
Ht: 70in 5 10
BF: 15%

5th Cycle - Test E and MAST + hCG + PCT
10 Years weight lifting
10 Years strong dieting

Competition Experience: None, just athletic experience.

Goal: Looking to do a Physique Contest Summer 2016, so this cycle would get me to a lean weight of 185-190 at around 8-10 percent. Then from there, Dec – May, would need to keep off cycle with serms, get sculpted gains in weak areas, possibly another mass stack plus another cut stack, but need to stay as lean as possible, and maybe even HGH. Pre-contest 6-8 weeks out. Yes I am a newbie when it comes to amateur bodybuilding, even if its physique contest, NPC.

January 2016 getting gyno surgery, right before starting prep for competition, again, I am looking to set that date between may and july for competition, possibly Tampa or Miami, FL.

Testover E (Testosterone Enanthate) 250 mg/ml 10 ml 2xVials: Recommended dosage: this is has changed in every forum so I went with Anabolics, by William Llewellyn, 500mg/week, although this is his recommendation, do you suggest higher doses for this type of cycle?

Wk 1-16 500mg week/ Tuesday/Thursday Injection
OP Repy: Changed Test Prop to Test E, with proper diet/wkout, I can cut to 8-10 percent from 15 percent.


Reply OP: Many members told me to do something simple, I can cut and gain Test E/mast with proper diet/workout with these two aas products.

Mastever (Drostanolone Propionate) 100 mg/ml 10 ml x2 Vials: Recommended dosage: this is has changed in every forum so I went with Anabolics, by William Llewellyn, he recommended a dose between: around 200mg/week. If you think this is too low then let me know?

Wk 1-16 200mg week, I changed Primo over to Mast.

Arimidex (adex) Inhibitor for estrogen, will use from Wk 2-12 ose: .25mg EOD or ED depending on puffiness of nipples, I can tell if my already gyno is getting sore. I know I need some estrogen but will be caughtious to not enhance gyno.

Comments from Others: Your dose is too high for 300mg/week. Generally .25mg EOD works for 500mg test/week. Ok, easy fix. I updated it to .25mg.

hCG Wk 9-12: Have not used this before but I know its better to use in the last three weeks, instead of PCT, I am sure there are differing opinions on this on. According to Anabolics, by William Llewellyn, recommended dosage is 100 IU daily, 200 IU EOD, or 250 IU three times per week for general use are effective.

First time on hCG, kind of scared mixing the sterile water with hCG. I have never mixed anything before except inject test/mast and a little winni at the end of a cycle, plus novadex for pct. According to Anabolics book, take this during cycle so your nuts won’t get zapped, and cosmetically look like shriveled little raisins. I prefer to use this at the end of the cycle vs PCT, so my natural test gets a kick, plus my nuts can start going back to normal.

hCG: Prefere Sub-q, Total 5,000 iu total for four weeks, end of cycle.Recommended dosage by Steriod .com, X_Moe, in his hCG sticky, is 500 – 1000 iu,
Instructions: hcg comes packaged in two ways!

“You get 2 vials or amps, 1 has the powdered hcg in it, and the other has a diluent in it(solvent). The diluent is typically bacteriostatic water, or sterile water w/ .09% sodium chloride. ***ending on the brand and version, the package commonly comes w/ enough diluent to make concentrations ranging from 250-10,000iu per ml.”

“Mixing and Injecting with insulin pins: 1-buy some insulin syringes, U-100 type. On the graduated markings, the 100iu mark is equal to 1ml, the 50iu is .5ml etc. THIS DOES NOT MEAN IF YOU FILL IT TO THE 100IU MARK THAT YOU ARE TAKING 100IU OF HCG! Iu's are not a measurement of volume or weight, they are a measure of effectiveness for a desired response from specific drugs/compounds. Every compound is different. These are insulin syringes, and they are made for insulin-not hcg. Insulin is the same iu concentration per ml everytime(if its u100 type), hcg is not. Imagine if you made your hcg 10,000iu per ml. if you fill the insulin syringe up to 100iu mark, you now have 10,000iu in there! Not good. You must understand this. So if you had 5000iu per ml, and wanted to take a 500iu shot, you would inject 10iu on the insulin syringe scale.”

Reference: HCG (Pregnyl) FAQ

PCT: starts 3 days after last Test P injection
Wk 1-2: Clomid @ 100 mgs/day
Wk 1-2: Nova @ 40 mgs/day
Wk 3-4: Clomid @ 50 mgs/day
Wk 3-4: Nova @ 20 mgs/day

Comments from Others on PCT:
I remember reading about his protocol in case law and it was a 45 day protocol, running hCG, clomiphene, and tamoxifen . He'd ad mister the hCG for 15 days and so some blood work to check different hormone levels, depending upon results , he'd either extend the hCG treatment or you would just finish with clomid and nolvadex . I know his method evolved over time, and this was, I believe, the protocol he was using a when he was practicing.

Should I start hCG only in PCT, or should I start hCG, last two weeks of cycle then start PCT still running hCG. Again, don't bash me, I am new to hCG.

Cycle Support:

Cholesterol Support: Lipid Stabil (3 caps/day) Fish Oil (4g/day)

Hair loss. I am simply going to provide a list of possible treatment methods:
• Finasteride
• Minoxidil
• Dutasteride
• Proscar
• N2Shampoo
• Azelex (Anti-DHT cream)

These are the most commonly used for treatment of hairloss. Choose wisely and research thoroughly for side effects before use of any of these products.

Blood Work Check

Update: 13 August 2015: Got Pre cycle bloodwork.

-Pre: http://www.*************.com/

-Mid: LabsMD - Simple and Secure Lab Tests Online

-After: LabsMD - Simple and Secure Lab Tests Online

Off-Cycle Support (OCT) after AAS and PCT

Anyone have a good book, with factual scientific studies showing SARMS is an awesome pick over aas?

OCT cycle
1-11 need2slin
Vitamin D 3000IU day
Calcium 500mg/day
Zinc Sulphate 250mg/day
D-Aspartic Acid 3.2g
Muscle Cell Re sensitization: Arachidonic Acid 250mg/day
Fish Oil, 2g/day
Anabolic Supplementation: Creatine 5g/day
Beta-Alanine 3-6 g/day
BCAA 10g/day

Diet tips according to Rambo:
Sample Diet: http://forums.steroid.com/diet-nutri...mple-diet.html
I am doing the diet he listed with a little alteration.

Diet is short due to lengthy post:
If you wanted to know, I had a whole diet write up but three senior members said this was too long, so I went with links on the diet. My diet is the key to success, believe me, you can't compete without a strict diet, understood. Additionally, you can't do a physique contest if you can't see your abs but are huge, so I am trying to learn as much as possible on how to look my best when I am on stage. Takes a lot of work, as you probably know. Diet 80% workout 10% gear 10%. Anyways. I like your comments though. My friend who competes always tells me gear is only a vehicle to achieve your results, with out the gas/diet, and without the oil/workout, the car won't get there.

Diet is king on gear and off gear. I am using my friends diets, he makes them for me, and my wife makes whats on the meal plan. That simple. I don't eat anything different, I don't snack or venture off my diet. I see results but know that with the proper diet, good workout plan, and good cardio plan, lean mass can be gained while cutting up.

[numbere]

If you'd like more feedback you should shorten your post. I understand that you put a lot of effort into writing your OP but not many people will take the time to read such a detailed post.

[enystrom]

True. I will clean it up a bit and be more concise, plus I have already answered some of my questions. Thanks for the information.

[enystrom]

Ok, I made it much shorter. I might have to edit again to make sure I get as concise as possible.

[bigdil511]

Ok, I made it much shorter. I might have to edit again to make sure I get as concise as possible.

I'm sorry it's way too long to read.

[enystrom]

ok, I cut more from the list.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

Below is a full cycle work up, I am confident I have most of my p's and q's down. I wrote this up so others can see what acutally goes into planning a full cycle for cutting. Its a long read but I researched this in the Anabolics book by William Llewellyn and answered as many questions I could for the newbs and the senior bodybuilding group can perfect my cycle below, if your up for a challenge, tweaks, tips, bro science appreciated. [B]

Stats: 33 age
Wt: 212lbs
Ht: 70in 5 10
BF: 15%

5th Cycle - Test Prop and Primo + PCT
10 Years weight lifting
10 Years strong dieting

Competition Experience: None, just athletic experience.

Goal: Looking to do a Physique Contest Summer 2016, so this cycle would get me to a lean weight of 185-190 at around 8-10 percent. Then from there, Dec – May, would need to keep off cycle with serms, get sculpted gains in weak areas, possibly another mass stack plus another cut stack, but need to stay as lean as possible, and maybe even HGH. Pre-contest 6-8 weeks out. Yes I am a newbie when it comes to amateur bodybuilding, even if its physique contest, NPC.

January 2016 getting gyno surgery, right before starting prep for competition, again, I am looking to set that date between may and july for competition, possibly Tampa or Miami, FL.

Primobolan- Methenolone Enanthate: Recommended dosage: this is has changed in every forum so I went with Anabolics, by William Llewellyn, although this is his recommendation, do you suggest higher doses for this type of cycle.

Wk 1-3 300mg week, EOD
Wk 4-8 300mg week, EOD
Wk 9-12 300mg week, EOD

Your body fat is too high for primo.
Your dose is too low.
You could've easily written week 1-12 primo 300mg/week EOD injections.
Why did you break it up into three different blocks??

Test Prop: Recommended dosage: this is has changed in every forum so I went with Anabolics, by William Llewellyn, he recommended a dose between: 250-750mg per injection 6-12 week cycles. I took the 300mg because my source has 100mg/mL 10mL vials, so it made sense, since I am new to both of these compounds. So 2mL per shot, 3xshots a week, so 300mg of test p and 300mg of primo a week, each vial runs 3.25 weeks, 4 vials for 12 total stack. I know some of the not so new newbs, know this like the back of their head, but for the newb, this will help.

Wk 1-3 300mg week, EOD
Wk 4-8 300mg week, EOD
Wk 9-12 300mg week, EOD

Your dose is too low.
SB 500mg/week EOD injections.
Why again did you break it up into three blocks of weeks?


Arimidex (adex) Inhibitor for estrogen, will use from Wk 2-12 ose: .5mg EOD or ED depending on puffiness of nipples, I can tell if my already gyno is getting sore. I know I need some estrogen but will be caughtious to not enhance gyno.

Your dose is too high for 300mg/week. Generally .25mg EOD works for 500mg test/week.

hCG Wk 9-12: Have not used this before but I know its better to use in the last three weeks, instead of PCT, I am sure there are differing opinions on this on. According to Anabolics, by William Llewellyn, recommended dosage is 100 IU daily, 200 IU EOD, or 250 IU three times per week for general use are effective.

hCG from week 1 until 3 days before PCT starts. 250ius twice a week.

First time on hCG, kind of scared mixing the sterile water with hCG. I have never mixed anything before except inject test/mast and a little winni at the end of a cycle, plus novadex for pct. According to Anabolics book, take this during cycle so your nuts won’t get zapped, and cosmetically look like shriveled little raisins. I prefer to use this at the end of the cycle vs PCT, so my natural test gets a kick, plus my nuts can start going back to normal.

hCG: Prefere Sub-q, Total 5,000 iu total for four weeks, end of cycle.Recommended dosage by Steriod .com, X_Moe, in his hCG sticky, is 500 – 1000 iu,
Instructions: hcg comes packaged in two ways!

“You get 2 vials or amps, 1 has the powdered hcg in it, and the other has a diluent in it(solvent). The diluent is typically bacteriostatic water, or sterile water w/ .09% sodium chloride. Wrong, the hCG comes with NaCl which is for one time use. You will nedd to buy BAC water separately. ***ending on the brand and version, the package commonly comes w/ enough diluent to make concentrations ranging from 250-10,000iu per ml.”

“Mixing and Injecting with insulin pins: 1-buy some insulin syringes, U-100 type. On the graduated markings, the 100iu mark is equal to 1ml, the 50iu is .5ml etc. THIS DOES NOT MEAN IF YOU FILL IT TO THE 100IU MARK THAT YOU ARE TAKING 100IU OF HCG! Iu's are not a measurement of volume or weight, they are a measure of effectiveness for a desired response from specific drugs/compounds. Every compound is different. These are insulin syringes, and they are made for insulin-not hcg. Insulin is the same iu concentration per ml everytime(if its u100 type), hcg is not. Imagine if you made your hcg 10,000iu per ml. if you fill the insulin syringe up to 100iu mark, you now have 10,000iu in there! Not good. You must understand this. So if you had 5000iu per ml, and wanted to take a 500iu shot, you would inject 10iu on the insulin syringe scale.”

Reference: HCG (Pregnyl) FAQ

PCT: starts 3 days after last Test P injection
Wk 1-4: Clomid @ 100 mgs/day
Wk 1-4: Aromasin @ 25 mgs/day
Wk 1-4: Clomid @ 50 mgs/day
Wk 1-4: Aromasin @ 25 mgs/day

PCT doesn't use aromasin.
PCT is Nolva and Clomid
Please tell why you wrote week 1-4 twice. Your whole thread is a mess.


Cycle Support:

Cholesterol Support: Lipid Stabil (3 caps/day) Fish Oil (4g/day)

Hair loss. I am simply going to provide a list of possible treatment methods:
• Finasteride
• Minoxidil
• Dutasteride
• Proscar
• N2Shampoo
• Azelex (Anti-DHT cream)

These are the most commonly used for treatment of hairloss. Choose wisely and research thoroughly for side effects before use of any of these products.

Blood Work Check

-Pre: http://www.*************.com/

-Mid: LabsMD - Simple and Secure Lab Tests Online

-After: LabsMD - Simple and Secure Lab Tests Online

Off-Cycle Support (OCT) after AAS and PCT

Anyone have a good book, with factual scientific studies showing SARMS is an awesome pick over aas?

OCT cycle
1-11 need2slin
Vitamin D 3000IU day
Calcium 500mg/day
Zinc Sulphate 250mg/day
D-Aspartic Acid 3.2g
Muscle Cell Re sensitization: Arachidonic Acid 250mg/day
Fish Oil, 2g/day
Anabolic Supplementation: Creatine 5g/day
Beta-Alanine 3-6 g/day
BCAA 10g/day
Clomid to bridge low estrogen if needed, if bloodwork comes back low on test. Clomid is for PCT

Diet tips according to Rambo:
Sample Diet: http://forums.steroid.com/diet-nutri...mple-diet.html
I am doing the diet he listed with a little alteration.

I am sure I missed some things.

[enystrom]

Thank you, I am not all knowledgeable. I am learning as I go. I have done as much research as I can, so I will go back to the books and hit it again, PCT was a big weak point for me. Although this is my 5 cycle, this is the first time, I am looking on competing. I will edit and fix, for my own notes and on the forum.

Thanks,

[enystrom]

I am thinking to do a t3/clen cycle for several weeks, until my fat percent gets to 10-12 percent, then do the above stack. Not for sure, but give me some hints, on if this is a good thing to do.

[enystrom]

I was wondering if anyone had any advice on the stack, t3/clen or t3/albuterol for 8 weeks then start test.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

I am thinking to do a t3/clen cycle for several weeks, until my fat percent gets to 10-12 percent, then do the above stack. Not for sure, but give me some hints, on if this is a good thing to do.

I would not take T3 without AAS.
I would not take any fat loss supplement until you really need help losing weight.
If you are above 12% body fat then you can lose body fat without drugs.

[Juced_porkchop]

Thank you, I am not all knowledgeable. I am learning as I go. I have done as much research as I can, so I will go back to the books and hit it again, PCT was a big weak point for me. Although this is my 5 cycle, this is the first time, I am looking on competing. I will edit and fix, for my own notes and on the forum.

Thanks,

do 4-5 weeks of PCT of clomid 50mg ed along with tamox (nolva) 20mg ed . after prop start a few days to a week after last shot . for teste start couple weeks after last shot IMO.
i rec 12-14 weeks teste + AI and PCT

[enystrom]

Ok, well, Seems like I am going with Test E and Mast. Hopefully it is just lean mass, I don't mind a little water retention.

[tarmyg]

A massive thread about what compounds to take and then three lines on the end about your diet which is the important part. You could trash all this stuff if the diet is not 100% on point. I hope you spent as much time on the diet because I seemed to have missed your post in the Nutrition Section around this.

[enystrom]

A massive thread about what compounds to take and then three lines on the end about your diet which is the important part. You could trash all this stuff if the diet is not 100% on point. I hope you spent as much time on the diet because I seemed to have missed your post in the Nutrition Section around this.

Tarmyg,

If you wanted to know, I had a whole diet write up but three senior members said this was too long, so I went with links on the diet. My diet is the key to success, believe me, you can't compete without a strict diet, understood. Additionally, you can't do a physique contest if you can't see your abs but are huge, so I am trying to learn as much as possible on how to look my best when I am on stage. Takes a lot of work, as you probably know. Diet 80% workout 10% gear 10%. Anyways. I like your comments though. My friend who competes always tells me gear is only a vehicle to achieve your results, with out the gas/diet, and without the oil/workout, the car won't get there.

Diet is king on gear and off gear. I am using my friends diets, he makes them for me, and my wife makes whats on the meal plan. That simple. I don't eat anything different, I don't snack or venture off my diet. I see results but know that with the proper diet, good workout plan, and good cardio plan, lean mass can be gained while cutting up.

Thanks,

[enystrom]

I would not take T3 without AAS.
I would not take any fat loss supplement until you really need help losing weight.
If you are above 12% body fat then you can lose body fat without drugs.

Deadlift Dog,

I agree, I will continue to diet until I hit/12%, or less then get on a stack, as mentioned above, Test E and Mast, to get more sculpting done, and better development and symmetry.

Thanks,

[enystrom]

Does anyone have any other suggestions?