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Thread: Vets???????

  1. #1
    ozzyjuicin is offline New Member
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    Vets???????

    I'm a bit confused. I've been informed, by a doctor who supports the use of steroids for bodybuilding, that the use of clomid can cause gyno and that it's the same type of gyno that deca can cause (can only be corrected by surgery). He told me that I should stay away from it.

    I know that most of you guys use clomid and I've done alot of research on it and I've not heard of this. I know that if very high dosages are taken that some feminisation symptoms can occur but I thought that that if dosages of 50-100mg per day are taken its safe.

    Please give advice.

    OJ

  2. #2
    viperlingerfelt's Avatar
    viperlingerfelt is offline Associate Member
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    never heard that before......you can take clomid for months and never really see any bad side effects (maybe just very emotional)....some have even suggested using clomid as a treatment for hypogonadism......so in short i dont believe it.............they didnt teach "aas 101" in med school, so most physicaian only have the media "hype" to rely on when commenting on the subject.......

  3. #3
    bigkev's Avatar
    bigkev is offline Scamming Traitor
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    i've never heard of progesterone gyno being caused by clomid either bro. in fact, i have never heard of any sides from clomid.

    gotta go with viper on this one.

    i am not 100% sure so i will keep this bumped for a more solid reply.

  4. #4
    PaPaPumP's Avatar
    PaPaPumP is offline Retired Moderator
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    Damn, what's next...winny causes you to grow a third leg. Or A 4th for some of us big boys.


    Bump this shit.

  5. #5
    XBiker's Avatar
    XBiker is offline Retired Vet
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    Here's a nice little article, freshly stolen from muscletalk.

    <hr>

    Why Bodybuilders Use Clomid
    Clomid is a generic name for Clomiphene Citrate and is a synthetic oestrogen. It is prescribed medically to aid ovulation in low fertility females. Another generic name is Serophene.

    Most anabolic steroids , especially the androgens, cause inhibition of the body's own testosterone production. When a bodybuilder comes off a steroid cycle, natural testosterone production is zero and the levels of the steroids taken in the blood are diminishing. This leaves the ratios of catabolic : anabolic hormones in the blood high, hence the body is in a state of catabolism, and, as a result, much of the muscle tissue that was gained on the cycle is now going to be lost.

    Clomid stimulates the hypothalamus to, in turn stimulant the anterior pituitary gland (aka hypophysis) to release gonadotrophic hormones. The gonadotrophic hormones are follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) and luteinizing hormone (LH - aka interstitial cell stimulating hormone (ICSH)). FSH stimulates the testes to produce more testosterone, and LH stimulates them to secrete more testosterone. This results in an increase of the body's own testosterone production and blood levels rise, to, in part, compensate for the diminishing levels of exogenous steroids. This is vital to minimise post cycle muscle losses.

    Not all steroids do cause shut down of the feedback mechanism. Everyone is different and you must also take into account how long you have been using a certain steroid and at what dose in order to determine if you need Clomid or not.

    Clomid also works as an anti-oestrogen. As it's a weak synthetic oestrogen, it binds to oestrogen receptors on cells blocking them to oestrogen in the blood. This minimises the negative effects like gynecomastia and water retention that may be a result of oestrogen that has aromatised from testosterone.

    It's effect as an anti-oestrogen are quite weak though, and it should not be relied upon if you are going to be using androgenic steroids that aromatise at a rapid rate, or if you are pre-disposed to gynecomastia. Arimidex and Nolvadex (Tamoxifen ) are far more effective anti-oestrogens.

    Clomid During A Cycle
    When we use anabolic steroids , the level of androgens in the body rises causing the androgen receptors to become more highly activated, and through the hypothalamus-pituitary feedback pathway, a signal tells our testes to stop producing testosterone. During a cycle the body has far higher than normal levels of androgens and, as long as this level is high enough, Clomid will not help to keep natural testosterone production up. It will be almost all but completely shut off, in theory.

    Some heavy androgen users, however, do advocate a small burst of Clomid mid-cycle, though it must be hard for them to say if it really of any benefit, due to the amount of gear they are using. Therefore, the only purpose of Clomid during a cycle is as an anti-estrogen.


    When To Start Clomid
    The correct time to commence Clomid depends on the type and cycle of steroids you have been using. Different steroids have different half-lifes (indicates the time a substance diminishes in blood), and Clomid administration should be taken accordingly.

    As we have seen above, Clomid taken when androgen levels in our blood are still high, will be a waste. It is crucial to wait for androgen levels to fall before implementing our Clomid therapy. However, if taken too late we could possibly lose gains.

    The list below determines when you should start Clomid. Select from the list any steroids you've used in your cycle and whichever one has the latest starting point is the time to commence Clomid. For example, if Dianabol , Sustanon and Winstrol were cycled, the time for administering Clomid should be 3 weeks post cycle, as Sustanon remains active in the body for the longest period of time.

    Steroid Time after
    last administration Length of
    Clomid Cycle
    Anadrol50/Anapolan50: 8 - 12 hours 3 weeks
    Deca durabolan: 3 weeks 4 weeks
    Dianabol: 4 - 8 hours 3 weeks
    Equipoise : 17 - 21 days 3 weeks
    Finajet/Trenbolone : 3 days 3 weeks
    Primabolan depot: 10 - 14 days 2 weeks
    Sustanon: 3 weeks 3 weeks
    Testosterone Cypionate : 2 weeks 3 weeks
    Testosterone Enanthate /Testaviron: 2 weeks 3 weeks
    Testosterone Propionate : 3 days 3 weeks
    Testosterone Suspension : 4 - 8 hours 2-3 weeks
    Winstrol 8 - 12 hours 2-3 weeks


    How To Take Clomid
    Clomid has a long half-life (possibly 5 days), so there is no need to split up doses throughout the day. If Sustanon has been used and Clomid is commenced 3 weeks after the last injection, I would estimate that androgen levels are low enough to start sending the correct signals. If androgen levels are still a little high, we need to start at a high enough amount that will work or help, even if androgen levels are still a little high. Try 300mg on day 1; then use 100mg for the next 10 days; followed by 50mg for 10 days.

    HCG
    HCG stands for Human Chorionic Gonadotropin and is a naturally occurring hormone released from the placenta during pregnancy which controls the mother's hormones. Synthetic HCG is often known as Pregnyl (generic name) and is available in 2500iu and 5000iu and is used to boost natural testosterone for people using anabolic steroids.

    HCG is generally used post cycle commenced during the last 7 days before the final administration, with a course of 3 x 2500iu injections taken at 7-day intervals. HCG is OK to use mid cycle, if you're using heavy androgens over long periods, but generally it's used to boost natural testosterone levels after a course. Generally, Clomid is more effective than HCG post cycle, but some long-term users like to use both together.

    Price of Clomid and HCG
    Clomid is available in 50mg tablets most commonly, but also comes in 25mg capsules. 10 x 50mg tablets should be anywhere from £10-20; $10 - $20.00. HCG prices range from £15-£25 per 3 ampoules.

  6. #6
    Nathan's Avatar
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    Good post X. Where'd ya get that? You should know better - always quote your source of info. Ya bastard.

  7. #7
    Big Al's Avatar
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    I think that was actually written by IG, Muscletalk stole it from IG I believe.

  8. #8
    XBiker's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Nathan
    Good post X. Where'd ya get that? You should know better - always quote your source of info. Ya bastard.
    Nate, your brain must still be all mushy from finals.

    If you look at the top of my post, I clear state that I stole it from muscletalk, ya WANKER!

  9. #9
    The Iron Game Guest
    Clomid = synthetic estrogen, quite mild but can cause gyno. Not only this way but it also binds to the estrogen receptor blocking real estrogen from doing so. Once clomid is stopped the real estrogen can then bind to the ER and cause gyno. Solution = clomid + aromatase inhibitor

  10. #10
    XBiker's Avatar
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    Originally posted by The Iron Game
    . Solution = clomid + aromatase inhibitor
    AKA... Clomid + Liquidex/Arimidex .

  11. #11
    Nathan's Avatar
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    Originally posted by XBiker


    Nate, your brain must still be all mushy from finals.

    If you look at the top of my post, I clear state that I stole it from muscletalk, ya WANKER!
    That's it. You're dead my friend. DEAD. D-E-A-D. Or something to that extent anyway. Dammit. I got nothin'.

  12. #12
    XBiker's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Nathan


    That's it. You're dead my friend. DEAD. D-E-A-D. Or something to that extent anyway. Dammit. I got nothin'.
    EZ, bro, or I will hire AMAF/m0f0/STFU to dicksmack U!

  13. #13
    KeyMastur is offline VET
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    Originally posted by PaPaPumP
    Damn, what's next...winny causes you to grow a third leg. Or A 4th for some of us big boys.
    don't say "us" like you're in that group. you know you couldn't give a fly an orgasm with your pecker.

  14. #14
    ozzyjuicin is offline New Member
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    IG, so it doesn't bind to the progesterone receptor (which arimidex won't prevent)?

  15. #15
    viperlingerfelt's Avatar
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    IG...from that i would say that clomid doesn't cause gyno, but not running it long enough for the estrogen levels in your body to decrease causes gyno.... ??

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