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  1. #1
    fabry is offline Senior Member
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    Testo and... Testicles (???)

    hi there,
    after all your advices, and after some "scientifical" reading, i've decided that my first cycle will be:

    Wk 1-10, Test Enan 250mg E5D, so it wound up being 350mg/wk (one of you told me this, coz i was "scared" about 500... and also about 2 inj/wk too near!)
    Wk 1-4, 30mg Dbol ED (divided in 3 doses)
    Wk 1-12 Nolva 10mg ed

    PCT, 2 weeks after last inj:
    Day 1: 300mg Clomid (split into 3!) / 20mg Nolva
    Day 2-21: 100mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva
    Day 22-28: 20mg Nolva

    Now, somewhere, i read about the stop of natural testo production coz of the test enan and the risk of getting smaller testicles...
    everything should go back to normal after pct!

    My question is...
    if clomid makes my body continue to produce natural testo, why not using it during the entire cycle along with nolva? or... what about proviron ?

    hope this thread will be useful for other beginners!!!

    tnx for all your attention

  2. #2
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    hey, you're natural test production will shut down and you should shoot every monday and thursday, or sunday and wednesday. this e5d stuff is garbage. the cycle almost always recomended to all newbies is based on 500mg/week of enanthate , in 2 250mg injections/week. everything else you have planned out well. some people here are advocates of low doses. but i would go with 500/week. sauce is not as magical as people think it is. there's a shi_t-load of work needed to be done with it in order for good gains. training, diet, rest, etc.

  3. #3
    fabry is offline Senior Member
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    ok, got the msg about dosage!
    but what about my main question about using a product (clomid or other) during all cycle to avoid testicles shrink... (o however you write it?)...

  4. #4
    fabry is offline Senior Member
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    ???? no more ????

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biondo[ITA]
    ok, got the msg about dosage!
    but what about my main question about using a product (clomid or other) during all cycle to avoid testicles shrink... (o however you write it?)...
    POSTED BY THE IRON GAME



    Clomid: Frequently Asked Questions

    Something I put together that may help some of the new comers out there as well as some of the more experienced.

    Question: What is Clomid?

    Answer: Clomid is a synthetic estrogen and is generally prescribed by doctors to trigger ovulation in females.

    Question: Why Should Bodybuilders use Clomid?

    Answer: Almost all anabolic androgenic steroids will cause an inhibition of the bodies own testosterone production. When he comes off the steroids he has no natural test production and no more steroids. The body is left in a state of catabolism (catabolic hormones are high and anabolic hormones are low) and as a result much of the muscle tissue that was gained on the cycle is now going to be lost. Clomid stimulates the hypophysis to release more gonadotropin so that a faster and higher release of follicle stimulating hormone aud luteinizing hormone occurs. This results in an increase of the body's own testosterone production.

    Question: Does Clomid also work as an anti estrogen?

    Answer: Clomid is a synthetic estrogen, however it does also work as an anti-estrogen. How does it work? Because it is a weak synthetic estrogen, it will bind to the estrogen receptor (ER) and not cause any problems. At the same time the increase in estrogen from steroids are blocked from attaching to the ER.

    Question: How effective is Clomid as an anti-estrogen?

    Answer: It is very weak and should not be relied upon if you are going to be using steroids that aromatise at any rapid rate, or if you are pre disposed to gyno. Arimidex , Proviron and Nolvadex will all make better choices for this purpose.

    Question: Some say Clomid during a cycle is a waste, is this true?

    Answer: Lets first examine what happens when someone is using anabaolic androgenic steroids. When the level of androgens in the body get too high, the androgen receptor becomes more highly activated, and the hypothalamus stops sending a signal to the pituitary. In short the signal tells our body to stop producing testosterone. During a cycle the body has higher levels than normal of androgens and as long as this level is high enough clomid will not help to keep natural test production up. It will be almost all but completely shut off. The only purpose of clomid during a cycle is as an anti-estrogen.

    Question: When do I start Clomid? Some say 2 weeks others 3.

    Answer: When you start using your clomid all depends on what steroids you were using during your cycle. Different steroids have different half lifes and you should adjust your clomid intake accordingly. As we have seen above, if we take clomid when the androgen levels in our body is still high it will be a waste. We need to wait for androgen levels to fall before implementing our clomid therapy. However if we take it too late we could possibly lose gains. Look at the list below to determine when you should start clomid therapy. By selecting from the list all the steroids you used in your cycle and which ever one has the latest starting point then go with that. For example if I cycled dbol , sustanon and winstrol I would use sustanon as it remains active in the body for the longest period of time.

    Anadrol /Anapolan: 8 - 12 hours after last administration
    Deca : 3 weeks after last injection and clomid for 4 weeks
    Dianabol : 4 – 8 hours after last administration
    Equipoise : 17 – 21 days after last injection
    Fina: 3 days after last injection
    Primobolan depot: 10 – 14 days after last injection
    Sustanon: 3 weeks after last injection
    Testosterone Cypionate : 2 weeks after last injection
    Testosterone Enanthate : 2 weeks after last injection
    Testosterone Propionate : 3 days after last injection
    Testosterone Suspension : 4 – 8 hours after last administration
    Winstrol: 8 – 12 hours after last administration

    Question: What is the most effective way for Clomid therapy.

    Answer: Clomid has a long half life and as such there is no need to split up doses throughout the day. I read some where that it was 5 days (any feedback on this). Now if we used sustanon and we start using clomid 3 weeks after our last injection we anticipate that androgen levels are low enough to start sending the correct signals. If androgen levels are still a little high then the normal 50mgs/day of clomid for 1 week is not going to be effective. We need to start at a high enough amount that will work or help even if androgen levels are still a little high. 300mgs on day 1. I know I said don’t split it up due to its long half life but try and split this up 2 tabs 3 times a day. After we have finished this first day we seek to use 100mgs for 10 days and then followed by 50mgs for 10 days.

    Question: Do I need to use Clomid for 3 weeks?

    Answer: Why don’t you want too? It is very cheap, very effective and can mean the difference between maintaining gains and losing them.

    Question: How cheap is Clomid?

    Answer: Clomid normally comes in 50mg tablets but also comes in capsule form of 25mgs. A 50mg tablet can be anywhere between 25 cents and $2.50. (15 pence and 75 pence in England).

    Question: Do all steroids cause shut down of the hpta.

    Answer: Not all steroids do. Everyone is different and you must also take into account how long you have been using a certain steroid and at what dose in order to determine if you need clomid or not. However as the price is so cheap, why risk not using it.

    Peace
    The Iron Game

  6. #6
    BUYLONGTERM's Avatar
    BUYLONGTERM is offline Anabolic Member
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    You will probably not get major shrinkage in a 10 week cycle. No HCG should be needed. Just do Clomid PC, and you will be fine.

  7. #7
    fabry is offline Senior Member
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    tnx for answers...
    sorry, anyway, but i tried with "search box" but couldnt find ALL what i wanted to know...

  8. #8
    cpt steele's Avatar
    cpt steele is offline Anabolic Member
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    If you use to much or for to long your body feedbacks with extra estro. Using the test depot shuts your natural test down. Now because your adding double the amount of test threw the injects your body trys to maintain its balance by adding more estro, ok.So to use clomid threw your whole cycle in a sense could magnify the estrogen feedback you experience while on the juice. Ok its the same deal during pct to much clomid will have an adverse effect on your recovery. I beleve in front loading, like this
    Day 1 300mg
    day 2 200mg
    days 3-28 100mg

    Using novadex 20mg a day will also help. I am not a real good for explaining things this way but I hope it was a help

  9. #9
    fabry is offline Senior Member
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    cpt (or other experts).... sorry but i don't understand what you mean!
    is not you, i think... it's my poor english
    frontloading at beginning of cycle or you're talking about pct?

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