Im sorry.. :(

**methblue** · 02-24-2004, 11:21 AM

Hey there everyone, sorry for having to post this, but I have been doing endless research and cannot seem to piece together the information that I need. I am wanting to do winny at the end of a 12 week test prop/test enth/deca /clen /nolva cycle.. I want to work clomid/hcg /nolva/win/clen into the PCT part of my cycle but am not sure on the doses, times to wait, hcg during cycle, etc... Perhaps someone can give me a hand decyphering all this information and put it down for me in a plain step by step formula. I was also reading that I should run the test longer than the deca, but would it be fine to run just win and deca together?... so much information!! aghhh! Any help would greatly be appreciated..

mr meth

**TheMudMan** · 02-24-2004, 11:27 AM

it would be a waste to run winny in that cycle...... both deca and enan will bloat you and unless you already have a low bf you will not see much of anything from the winny.

What are your goals for this cycle and what did your other cycles look like?

**methblue** · 02-24-2004, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by TheMudMan

it would be a waste to run winny in that cycle...... both deca and enan will bloat you and unless you already have a low bf you will not see much of anything from the winny.

What are your goals for this cycle and what did your other cycles look like?

Well, I was planning on running fina/winny at the end of the cycle instead, to harden up a bit and solidify gains, but since the fina/deca struggle rages on, I thought I would skip that and just run winny/clen , plus I wanted to make sure and eliminate the chance of deca gyno with the winny as well.

My goals for this cycle are gaining as much lbm and losing as much bf as possible, no specifics.

As far as cycling, I have done a few test/deca/eq/anadrol /dbol /clen/t3 combination cycles in the past, but never anything very solid (never really stuck through the whole 12 weeks, or had very good dosages).. so this would be my first SERIOUS cycle, diet included. Thanks for your reply MudMan, and hope you can help out a little further.

mr meth

**abmyers** · 02-24-2004, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by methblue

Hey there everyone, sorry for having to post this, but I have been doing endless research and cannot seem to piece together the information that I need. I am wanting to do winny at the end of a 12 week test prop/test enth/deca /clen /nolva cycle.. I want to work clomid/hcg /nolva/win/clen into the PCT part of my cycle but am not sure on the doses, times to wait, hcg during cycle, etc... Perhaps someone can give me a hand decyphering all this information and put it down for me in a plain step by step formula. I was also reading that I should run the test longer than the deca, but would it be fine to run just win and deca together?... so much information!! aghhh! Any help would greatly be appreciated..

mr meth

Is this your first cycle?
Are you trying to bulk then cut?
Wk 1-12
Test Enan 500mg/wk (split injection)
Wk 1-10
Deca 400mg week (split inj)
Wk 1-17 Nolva 10mg ED
WK 15-17 Clomid Therapy (300-100-50)

Wk 29-41
Test Propinate 75mg ED
Wk 36-41
Winstrol 50 mg ED
Wk 29-30 Clen
Wk 31-32 ECA
Wk 33-34 Clen
Wk 35-36 ECA
Wk 37-38 Clen
Wk 39-40 ECA
etc etc
WK 42-43
HCG 300iu/day
Wk 44-46 Clomid again

Not really one cycle but I fit em all in there!

**methblue** · 02-24-2004, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by abmyers

Is this your first cycle?
Are you trying to bulk then cut?
Wk 1-12
Test Enan 500mg/wk (split injection)
Wk 1-10
Deca 400mg week (split inj)
Wk 1-17 Nolva 10mg ED
WK 15-17 Clomid Therapy (300-100-50)

Wk 29-41
Test Propinate 75mg ED
Wk 36-41
Winstrol 50 mg ED
Wk 29-30 Clen
Wk 31-32 ECA
Wk 33-34 Clen
Wk 35-36 ECA
Wk 37-38 Clen
Wk 39-40 ECA
etc etc
WK 42-43
HCG 300iu/day
Wk 44-46 Clomid again

Not really one cycle but I fit em all in there!

I would count this as my first "real" cycle.. and so far am doing eod inj of testoprim (50 prop, 200 eth), and eod inj of deca200 (600mg) as well as eca/clen 2 wks on, 2 wks off.. I am really trying to just trim down and gain as much mass as I can, but its not really a big issue because I am a naturally big person... I guess I was hoping that the winny at the end would help to harden me up a bit more and counteract the deca gyno (if any).. but if its going to be a waste of money, I wont even bother..

I have noted the clomid, nolva therapy you posted though and am grateful.

mr meth

**abmyers** · 02-24-2004, 11:57 AM

Don't try to do it all at once bro. It takes time. If you have a good base, and want to lower body fat, run a cutting cycle, with proper diet. Otherwise bulk. Don't do both at once. Deca and clen do not belong together, if you are try to cut, do prop, run antis, and use either tren (fina) or winstrol . Add clen, ECA and proper diet and cardio. Your pulling both sides of a rope if you have higher water retention gear like test enan dbol etc and high calorie diet, and are trying to cut. one at a time

**methblue** · 02-24-2004, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by abmyers

Don't try to do it all at once bro. It takes time. If you have a good base, and want to lower body fat, run a cutting cycle, with proper diet. Otherwise bulk. Don't do both at once. Deca and clen do not belong together, if you are try to cut, do prop, run antis, and use either tren(fina) or winstrol. Add clen, ECA and proper diet and cardio. Your pulling both sides of a rope if you have higher water retention gear like test enan dbol etc and high calorie diet, and are trying to cut. one at a time

Awesome advice abmyers, something I already knew, but had to have someone put it right in front of my face and personalize it

I think I will just hold off on the clen and winny and do the cycle like you posted for me, as there is really no rush.. I am however going to keep the hydroxcut (EF) going for the added stamina, energy and added fat loss for my waist's sake

Again, thank you very much for your effort on this post! If you are ever in Texas and need anything at all.. let me know, seriously.

mr meth

**methblue** · 02-24-2004, 12:10 PM

Last little note, what would you do to help prevent the deca gyno? Besides the 10mg nolva ed (which I was reading doesnt prevent it after all.. )

mr meth

**abmyers** · 02-24-2004, 12:21 PM

Deca gyno can be caused by progesterone instead of estrogen so airmidex or proviron or nolva wont help. However, progesterone isn't naturally occuring in males, so conversion is rare and very uncommon at low dosages (400mg week). To my knowledge, only ovulation related female hormones would help, but I don't know enough so I'll leave it at that.