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  1. #1
    Aggression is offline Member
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    Should I ditch the oat meal?

    Fellas, basically like I said in my other post, I'm 24 6' 215 with a little gut on me. Right now, here's my diet....

    5 am cardio on empty stomach

    Breakfast 6 am

    Bowl of oatmeal with splenda and cinnamon in it
    3 hardboiled eggs with salt
    cup of green tea

    Protein shake at 8:30 am

    Lunch 11:30 am
    Sliced chicken sandwich on wheat bread with fat free cheese and fat free mayo

    1:30 snack
    85 g of albacore tuna with fat free mayo

    Dinner 3:30 (pre workout) from Boston Market
    1/4 rotisserie chicken (I don't eat the skin)

    creamed spinach

    Evening Meal 6 pm (post workout(lifting)IMMEDIATLY AFTER MY LAST SET
    Protein shake (55g of protein, 7 g of carbs) mixed with 46 g of Dextrose

    Bedtime meal 8:30 pm
    M-Sat 1 chicken breast with marinade
    baked potato with pepper

    Sun Steak with sweet potato with pepper

    cup of sleepytime tea with valerian in it

    I will also be drinking 5 liters of water a day (no soda, iced tea, etc)

    I calculated it out to 265 g of protein and 180 g of carbs.

    If I'm cutting should I ditch the oatmeal at breakfast and replace them with 2 more hardboiled eggs?

    Here's my concerns:

    1)No carbs for breakfast I will have NO energy for the day and especially working out later that day.

    2)That will lower my carb intake for the day which is not healthy.
    Last edited by Aggression; 07-26-2004 at 09:54 PM.

  2. #2
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    Dude, try to get over your phobia of going without carbs for a few hours.

    Follow these rules...

    1) Eat protein at every meal.

    2) Never eat protein alone. Eat either pro/fat or pro/carb.

    3) Never mix carbs and fat in the same meal.

    4) If cutting, only consume carbs during your PWO and PPWO. Some people can get away with one more pro/carb meal during the day.

  3. #3
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    If your trying to cut, ditch the oatmeal. Having carbs after cardio is really not recommended because it stops lipolysis. Have a pro/fat meal instead

  4. #4
    Aggression is offline Member
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    OK, three questions:

    1)What is PPWO and PWO?

    2) What about mornings I'm not doing cardio, is 6 whole eggs OK to eat for breakfast?

    3)Based on my diet I posted (assuming I ditched the oats for 3 more eggs, 6 total) is it OK for my goals. I'm also lifting 4 days a week.

  5. #5
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    PWO = Post Work Out.
    PPWO = Post-Post Wokout.
    See the stickies atthe top of the diet forum for details.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggression
    OK, three questions:

    1)What is PPWO and PWO?

    2) What about mornings I'm not doing cardio, is 6 whole eggs OK to eat for breakfast?

    3)Based on my diet I posted (assuming I ditched the oats for 3 more eggs, 6 total) is it OK for my goals. I'm also lifting 4 days a week.
    The "search" button is your friend

  7. #7
    bad_man's Avatar
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    IN CAPS...

    Quote Originally Posted by Aggression
    Fellas, basically like I said in my other post, I'm 24 6' 215 with a little gut on me. Right now, here's my diet....

    5 am cardio on empty stomach

    Breakfast 6 am

    Bowl of oatmeal with splenda and cinnamon in it
    3 hardboiled eggs with salt
    cup of green tea

    THIS SHOULD BE PRO/FAT. DITCH THE OATMEAL. ADD SOME EGG WHITES.

    Protein shake at 8:30 am

    DON'T EAT PROTEIN ALONE. ADD SOME FAT. FLAX OIL IS A GOOD CHOICE.

    Lunch 11:30 am
    Sliced chicken sandwich on wheat bread with fat free cheese and fat free mayo

    BREAD SUCKS FOR CUTTING - YES, EVEN WHOLE WHEAT. EAT THE CHICKEN. EAT SOME FULL FAT, LOW CARB CHEESE IF YOU WANT. MAKE SOME CHICKEN SALAD OUT OF IT, BUT USE FULL FAT MAYO.

    1:30 snack
    85 g of albacore tuna with fat free mayo

    FAT FREE MAYO HAS ALOT OF SUGAR. USE REGULAR, FULL FAT MAYO.

    Dinner 3:30 (pre workout) from Boston Market
    1/4 rotisserie chicken (I don't eat the skin)

    creamed spinach

    THERE ARE BETTER CHOICES THAN THE SPINACH, BUT IT'S OK. i SUGGEST THE STEAMED VEGGIES OR THE BROCCOLI.


    Evening Meal 6 pm (post workout(lifting)IMMEDIATLY AFTER MY LAST SET
    Protein shake (55g of protein, 7 g of carbs) mixed with 46 g of Dextrose

    CARB TO PROTEIN RATIO SHOULD BE 2 TO 1. TRY 40G OF PROTEIN AND 80G OF DEX.


    Bedtime meal 8:30 pm
    M-Sat 1 chicken breast with marinade
    baked potato with pepper

    THIS IS A GOOD PPWO MEAL BUT HAVE IT ONE HOUR AFTER YOUR PWO SHAKE.

    Sun Steak with sweet potato with pepper

    cup of sleepytime tea with valerian in it

    I will also be drinking 5 liters of water a day (no soda, iced tea, etc)

    I calculated it out to 265 g of protein and 180 g of carbs.

    If I'm cutting should I ditch the oatmeal at breakfast and replace them with 3 more hardboiled eggs?

    Here's my concerns:

    1)No carbs for breakfast I will have NO energy for the day and especially working out later that day.

    2)That will lower my carb intake for the day which is not healthy.
    Last edited by bad_man; 07-26-2004 at 10:17 PM.

  8. #8
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    in CAPS my friend...


    Quote Originally Posted by Aggression
    Fellas, basically like I said in my other post, I'm 24 6' 215 with a little gut on me. Right now, here's my diet....

    5 am cardio on empty stomach

    Breakfast 6 am
    PRO/FAT MEAL..WHEY AND FLAX IS GOOD

    Bowl of oatmeal with splenda and cinnamon in it
    3 hardboiled eggs with salt
    cup of green tea
    YOU CAN DITCH THE OATS..YOU MIGHT BE BETTER OFF WITHOUT IT. WHAT'S WITH THE EXTRA SALT??

    Protein shake at 8:30 am
    ADD SOME FATS...

    Lunch 11:30 am
    Sliced chicken sandwich on wheat bread with fat free cheese and fat free mayo
    AGAIN..YOU CAN DITCH THE BREAD..PRO/FAT HERE

    1:30 snack
    85 g of albacore tuna with fat free mayo
    FINE

    Dinner 3:30 (pre workout) from Boston Market
    1/4 rotisserie chicken (I don't eat the skin)
    ADD SOME FATS..

    creamed spinach

    Evening Meal 6 pm (post workout(lifting)IMMEDIATLY AFTER MY LAST SET
    Protein shake (55g of protein, 7 g of carbs) mixed with 46 g of Dextrose
    CARBS TO PROTEIN RATIO 2:1..YOU CAN PUT MOST OF YOUR CARBS IN THIS MEAL..

    Bedtime meal 8:30 pm
    M-Sat 1 chicken breast with marinade
    baked potato with pepper
    DITCH THE POTATO...SUBSTITUTE WITH SOME FATS...EFA'S..

    Sun Steak with sweet potato with pepper
    NO POTATO..=)

    cup of sleepytime tea with valerian in it

    I will also be drinking 5 liters of water a day (no soda, iced tea, etc)

    I calculated it out to 265 g of protein and 180 g of carbs.

    If I'm cutting should I ditch the oatmeal at breakfast and replace them with 3 more hardboiled eggs?

    Here's my concerns:

    1)No carbs for breakfast I will have NO energy for the day and especially working out later that day.
    THE FATS ADDED IN SHOULD TAKE CARE OF THIS

    2)That will lower my carb intake for the day which is not healthy.
    AS LONG AS YOU DO NOT GO TOO LOW ON YOUR CARBS..IT'S FINE..YOU CAN HAVE A CARB UP DAY PER WEEK BRO..THAT SHOULD KEEP YOU PRETTY SANE..

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad_man
    3) Never mix carbs and fat in the same meal.
    Now that's crazy talk. I pitty the foo.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by stabmaster
    Now that's crazy talk. I pitty the foo.
    are you flaming?

  11. #11
    bad_man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stabmaster
    Now that's crazy talk. I pitty the foo.
    Whatever.

  12. #12
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    Stab, what are you retarded?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by )(PimP JuicE)(
    Stab, what are you retarded?

    Knock off the flaming.


    <<LMO>>

  14. #14
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    LMO shut up got **** you arent a mod dont act like one i can say what i want. he was acting retarded so i asked if he really was. do i have to explain everything i do to you???

  15. #15
    Blown_SC is offline Retired Vet
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    Quote Originally Posted by )(PimP JuicE)(
    LMO shut up got **** you arent a mod dont act like one i can say what i want. he was acting retarded so i asked if he really was. do i have to explain everything i do to you???
    I'm not a MOD either, but flaming is not tollerated here.
    Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

  16. #16
    bad_man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by )(PimP JuicE)(
    LMO shut up got **** you arent a mod dont act like one i can say what i want. he was acting retarded so i asked if he really was. do i have to explain everything i do to you???
    Hey bud, take it easy. LMO is a respected member of this board and we do not accept flaming here. Try adjusting your levels.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by )(PimP JuicE)(
    LMO shut up got **** you arent a mod dont act like one i can say what i want. he was acting retarded so i asked if he really was. do i have to explain everything i do to you???


    Your right I am not a mod..... but you don't need to flame people either for their questions / comments. As long as they are not out of line why do you have to be?


    <<LMO>>

  18. #18
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    hey bud, i was expresing my opinion, if i was flaming, so be it.

  19. #19
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    stab has done nothing but flame people since he got here

  20. #20
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    so what you just have to reword your coments like a 12 yr old for it not to be flaming?? he said i pitty the fool, for anyone who doesnt eat fat\carb meal. READ IT.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier of Misfortune
    stab has done nothing but flame people since he got here


    Whatever.... then let the mods handle him. It is not our job to flame people back / make fun of them because they ask stupid $hit / make stupid comments. If they are truly flaming people then the mods will deal with them accordingly. Remember this is a no BS board.... if you wish to last here you will conduct yourself in a respectful manner or your gone. Period


    <<LMO>>

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    BTW i was just asking if he was retarded, didn't call him retarded.

  23. #23
    bad_man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by )(PimP JuicE)(
    BTW i was just asking if he was retarded, didn't call him retarded.
    Maybe this post wasn't so bad, but you have left a string of inflammatory posts throughout the diet forum in the last couple hours. Just chill.

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    i dont know if i would call them inflammatory. just saying what i think should be said.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by )(PimP JuicE)(
    i dont know if i would call them inflammatory. just saying what i think should be said.
    Then maybe you should adjust the filter between your brain and your mouth.

  26. #26
    the original jason is offline AR-Hall of Famer / Retired
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    well he may not be a mod, but i am, hopefully i wont get one more report of this thread, or you will be on ur way

    hey bud, i was expresing my opinion, if i was flaming, so be it.
    and also, if u read the rules, there is a strictly no flaming policy, so please edit ur posts and be nice from now on.

    hope u clean things up and become more constructive

    peace

  27. #27
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    I thought that the "protein/fat" and "protein/carb" macronutrient partitioning in body recomposition went out with hammer pants in the early 90's... I mean if you are going to give said advice you might want to qualify it with a reason, for my infantile reptilian brain just has not the capacity for this sort of complexity.

  28. #28
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    as quoted in the cutting sticky..."Remember that when you take in certain carbs, you can spike your insulin levels. If you are taking in fats when your insulin has been spiked, you are allowing the basic laws of physiology to act out, and you allow for a higher propensity for fat storage"

    so I think this means that if you ingest fat and carbs, instead of the fat being used as energy along with carbs it will most likely be stored as fat due to the fact that the carbs are spiking your insulin --which is associated with the storing of fat. Maybe someone can explain it in more detail
    Last edited by Metabolic_; 07-27-2004 at 10:59 PM.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metabolic_
    as quoted in the cutting sticky..."Remember that when you take in certain carbs, you can spike your insulin levels. If you are taking in fats when your insulin has been spiked, you are allowing the basic laws of physiology to act out, and you allow for a higher propensity for fat storage"

    so I think this means that if you ingest fat and carbs, instead of the fat being used as energy along with carbs it will most likely be stored as fat due to the fact that the carbs are spiking your insulin--which is associated with the storing of fat. Maybe someone can explain it in more detail
    yupyup. To dumb it down even more:

    carbs and fat,2 things used for energy. when you take in both at the same time one is use as energy. . so what does the other one do? it is stored as fat and can make you chunky like the homogay elephant --->


    DCB

  30. #30
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    Just because it is in a sticky means that I should treat it as gospel? Unfortunately it's just not that simple. Our metabolism does not work that way.

    Amazingly enough our glucose disposal does fluctuate and the time that we spend in the hypoglycemic state has much bearing on our energy/metabolic rate.

    You see fuel selection works in a pendulum fashion. This should be how you think of nutrient partitioning from now on. If one were to oxidise a high amount of glucose, the pendulum will later swing in the other direction resulting in oxidation of large amounts of fatty acids. But in order to understand the implications of this, realize that when excess amounts of fatty acids are oxidized, large amounts of Acetyl-CoA are produced. Acetyl-CoA inhibits PFK1, which ecreases G6P utilization (glucose-6-phosphate). In other words, fatty acid oxidation inhibits glucose utilization.

    On the other hand, glucose utilization inhibits fat oxidation. The short version is that glucose oxidation causes ACC to convert Acetyl-CoA to malonyl-CoA, inhibiting CPT, preventing fat oxidation.

    It is the Acetyl/Malonyl ratio that determines nutrient usage at rest

    Ok so what does it all mean? Well, it means just what I stated: that is a simplistic view of macronutrient utilization (protein/fat, protein/carb).

    If I were to TRY to summarize an argument against it, I would convince you to imagine the pendulum, and tell you that if you want to spend the most time in hypoglycemic (fast metabolic) state, you might consider swinging that pendulum as little as possible; for that is the reason that we eat many small meals per day instead of few large ones, right?

    credit to spook for the pendulum analogy.

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    ask around for people's experiences with this pro\fat pro\carb. you can have your opinion but i am going with people's real experience with this concept.
    Last edited by )(PimP JuicE)(; 07-28-2004 at 12:29 AM.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by )(PimP JuicE)(
    ask around for people's experiences with this pro\fat pro\carb. you can have your opinion but i am going with people's real experience with this concept.
    This is the opinion of the Journal of Applied Physiology not mine, sorry.

  33. #33
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    good stuff here is the more detailed explaination I was looking for. Fatty acid oxidation inhibits glucose utilization and glucose utilization inhibits fat oxidation...so your saying that it is ideal be in state that your utilizing both sources of energy equally?

  34. #34
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    Stab what does your typical diet look like?
    Last edited by JT2k; 07-28-2004 at 01:00 AM.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metabolic_
    good stuff here is the more detailed explaination I was looking for. Fatty acid oxidation inhibits glucose utilization and glucose utilization inhibits fat oxidation...so your saying that it is ideal be in state that your utilizing both sources of energy equally?
    Good question but unfortunately the answer is not so simple either. Your metabolism is operated by an insanely complex control method in your brain. When eating 6 meals per day the differences are arguably pedantic, and thus difficult for me to articulate. My argument was not that "protein/fat, protein/carb" macronutrient partitioning is wrong; my intention was to point out that it is not necessarily right, or the only solution, or the best solution.

    I believe that the problem in the original sentiment is that it was probably derived from taking extreme measures to compare diets- say, one where you have 1 protein/fat and 1 protein/carb meal in the day (hypercaloric), and compare that with 2 p/f/c meals which yield equivalent macronutrient profiling. In said event, key players in metabolism are different than if you did not eat specifically hypercaloric (6 moderate/small meals per day). When we eat hypocaloric (especially when dieting), I would argue that in order to maintain hypoglycemic/high metabolic you would not neglect one of the macronutrients in any of your meals. You may squint real hard and tell me that metabolic rate is not nutrient partitioning, and you would be correct. There is a problem with language in the world of nutrition and that is "metabolic rate." When dieters say fast metabolism they mean good partitioning, it's that simple.

    Now go back and look at your daily caloric balance. What determined how much fat you stored? Your macronutrient profiles or your metabolic rate? Well, it's your metabolic rate- or in other words, a higher metabolism is better partitioning. That is a stretch, stabmaster, because you simply used language to prove your point not science.

    Well I can't reinvent the wheel for you in one thread, so I must try to pose my contention properly and let you fight it out in your own mind. My only argument was that it is not that simple.

    What happens physiologically when you have a faster metabolic rate? You simply have low TAG and low glycemic levels throughout the day, and you have higher leptin transport accross the BBB, and then the cascade of nutrient partitioning takes over from there.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by JT2k
    Stab what does your typical diet look like?
    mostly pretzels and beer... and atkins chocolate syrup straight from the bottle.

  37. #37
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    Post your diet i wanna see it "the correct way" i think it would be an interesting comparison...

  38. #38
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    For dinner tonight I had asparagus coated in a little olive oil, grilled on the BBQ, along with salmon that I caught in the bay this weekend, a beauregard yam with spices, and loose leaf green tea sweetened with stevia.

    I can see myself getting fatter by the second.

  39. #39
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    so an individuals ability to partition macronutrients more efficiently at a physiological level could possibly be the reason why some have a much more faster metabolic rate than others, which would maybe explain why some are more carb sensitive than others...just a thought

  40. #40
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    He dude thats cool if u dont want to give up your "trade secrets" just wanted to see the theory applied to a diet.

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