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  1. #1
    Pete235's Avatar
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    Low carb, No carb, ketogenic dieting.....MY opinion!!

    I will start by saying that this, IN NO WAY, is an attack against anybody's personal views or opinions. It is simply MY take on what I feel is a dangerous and unhealthy dieting practice. I see more and more posts/threads asking about these types of eating plans and I truly believe that it has no place in attempting to build a healthy looking fully functioning physique.

    First a little history lesson (I hope I do TNT proud). The ketogenic diet was written by UCLA kinesiology student Lyle MacDonald. He suggested that by limiting the amount of carbs ingested your body is forced into a state of ketosis where it burns fat for energy. Ther are several other's who have written about, and made money from ,the same concept...Dr. Roberta Atkins, Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale and Dan Duchaine (Body Opus). It works for quick fat loss and that's why many bodybuilders use it as they get close to contest time. But it is NOT healthy and should NEVER be followed for long periods of time. Here is why.

    First of all, using ketones for energy causes tremendous metabolic stress. It works short term and causes a dramatic loss of weight but it's temporary and due mostly to dhydration...not fat loss. It causes you to have low blood sugar levels and places an undue amount of strain on the kidneys. Since the brain requires carbohydrates for fuel limiting carbs can lead to dizziness, disorientation and nausea. Also, you can expect energy levels to drop drastically, your breath becomes terrible because of the rotting meat and fat in your gut, bowel movements are strained and your muscles fatten out...people will not even think you touch weights let alone train hard. This process (depleting the body of carbs) is also extremly catabolic so expect to lose alot of muscle as well. Bottom line here folks is, this is a very un-natural and un-healthy state to put your body in for the sake of a few pounds.
    Last edited by Pete235; 05-23-2002 at 11:29 AM.

  2. #2
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    I tend to agree, low carb yes, zero carb keto no, short term say 2 weeks to shed some water sure.. but any longer just no good.

  3. #3
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    Re: Low carb, No carb, ketogenic dieting.....MY opinion!!

    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Pete235
    I will start by saying that this, IN NO WAY, is an attack against anybody's personal views or opinions. It is simply MY take on what I feel is a dangerous and unhealthy dieting practice. I see more and more posts/threads asking about these types of eating plans and I truly believe that it has no place in attempting to build a healthy looking fully functioning physique.

    First a little history lesson (I hope I do TNT proud). The ketogenic diet was written by UCLA kinesiology student Lyle MacDonald. He suggested that by limiting the amount of carbs ingested your body is forced into a state of ketosis where it burns fat for energy. Ther are several other's who have written about, and made money from ,the same concept...Dr. Roberta Atkins, Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale and Dan Duchaine (Body Opus). It works for quick fat loss and that's why many bodybuilders use it as they get close to contest time. But it is NOT healthy and should NEVER be followed for long periods of time. Here is why.

    First of all, using ketones for energy causes tremendous metabolic stress. It works short term and causes a dramatic loss of weight but it's temporary and due mostly to dhydration...not fat loss. It causes you to have low blood sugar levels and places an undue amount of strain on the kidneys. Since the brain requires carbohydrates for fuel limiting carbs can lead to dizziness, disorientation and nausea. Also, you can expect energy levels to drop drastically, your breath becomes terrible because of the rotting meat and fat in your gut, bowel movements are strained and your muscles fatten out...people will not even think you touch weights let alone train hard. This process (depleting the body of carbs) is also extremly catabolic so expect to lose alot of muscle as well.


    Many have taken the opposite stance in claiming that ketones are anti-catabolic. There is certainly logic behind why the body in a state of ketosis would be sparing on muscle protein. Think about it, your body is programmed for survival. When your body is shifted to metaboling fat and ketones, less protein is converted to glucose. Next, excreting ketones via the kidneys has shown to be nitrogen sparing in which the kidneys produce ammonia which requires nitrogen in order to balance out the pH due to the acidic nature of ketones.

  4. #4
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    Re: Low carb, No carb, ketogenic dieting.....MY opinion!!

    Originally posted by Pete235
    your breath becomes terrible because of the rotting meat and fat in your gut, bowel movements are strained and your muscles fatten out...people will not even think you touch weights let alone train hard.
    I've done the Body Opus many times and I've had great results. I always get leaner and stonger but then that is what the diet is supposed to do. It does it well and fast.

    The bad breath is not from rotting meat but from ketones. As they can't be stored as fat they have to be expelled in some way. This is accomplished by working out, they are sweated out, and also breathed out (hense the bad breath and stinky urine).

    I used the diet for my last contest and my muscles were full and hard (I did do the glycogen super-recomposition phase prior to the contest).

    One thing the body opus does do is lower your blood pressure and blood sugar level. You do dehydrate at first but I always drink tones of water and on the weekend carb load it is never a problem.

    Keto diets are bad for people that are inactive and never should be done for more than 8 weeks at a time. I also don't think that anyone should stay in ketosis for more than 5 days at a time either.

    As far as strength goes you're always stronger after the carb up (body opus is 5 day carb deplete and 2 day carb load). over all though you're strength will go up. On the last day of carb depleteing I've notice that while I'm still strong I don't have a lot of staying power in an exersice, I'd say that my one rep max would stay the same. Endurance is there for cardio if you don't move too fast.

    The brain loves the old ketones too! I've found that sometimes when my feet feel slugish my brain is still working.

    It's not for everyone but it works good for me.

  5. #5
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    My point was it IS NOT a healthy way to lose weight (not just fat because you lose muscle as well). I didn't say it didn't work. You will also notice I said that many use it successfully for contest prep. Of course your muscles will rebound and fill out when you carbs up, what I ma warning against is the practice of running this kind of eating plan on a continuous basis which many do. Demitri...do you use a ketogenic (Body Opus) diet year round? Jbrand, show me ONE person who eats like this and has built muscle while doing so...or better yet show me one person who looks like they train. I have seen so many guys at my gym follow Atkins to a T and they drop a ton of weight but look like total shit! Look bros, I'm not flaming here and I'm not arguing. Carb depleting and carb loading are an integral part of contest dieting BUT in the real world you need carbs to function properly and be healthy.

  6. #6
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    healthy is that not secondary for bodybuilding especially contest prep... lol

  7. #7
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    Originally posted by eye_candy
    healthy is that not secondary for bodybuilding especially contest prep... lol
    Especially during contest prep!! LOL

  8. #8
    Shredz is offline Respected Member
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    I do have to agree with you on this one Pete...Doing a low carb, no carb diet year round is not good. I just came off a low carb diet for my trip as you know..and I had at least 3-4 days where I have extremely low blood sugar. Thank goodness for natural hunny and natural maple syrup. If you do use one of these diets for contest preps..you must listen to you body. If it is in dier need of sugar..give it to it..or you can run yourself into some major problems.

    What kind of diet do you use to cut down for the either a show or the summer Pete? Would like to try something new next time since I have had great success with the low carb diet but like you said it is not a healthy way about doing it.


    consider this a bump for another good post Petey!!!!!!

  9. #9
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    Originally posted by Pete235
    Demitri...do you use a ketogenic (Body Opus) diet year round? Jbrand, show me ONE person who eats like this and has built muscle while doing so...or better yet show me one person who looks like they train.
    I don't do the diet year round. I love food too much. But I weighed 185 pounds on new years when I started the diet and my strength increased all the way to my contest. I weighed in at 151 pounds for my show and I looked pretty decent. Granted I hadn't dialed the diet in right otherwise I would have looked better (as my crappy legs in my avatar demonstrate).

    With the Opus I find that the first couple of weeks I get slightly weaker but then after that my strength goes up overall.

    When I'm not doing the opus I try to limit junk food to the weekend and get an even ratio of protein/carbs/and fats. I find I work best off of this.

  10. #10
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    Excellent! Major props for competing bro! How many shows have you done?

    Did you use any AAS at all in preparing for your show?

  11. #11
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    Originally posted by Pete235
    My point was it IS NOT a healthy way to lose weight (not just fat because you lose muscle as well). I didn't say it didn't work. You will also notice I said that many use it successfully for contest prep. Of course your muscles will rebound and fill out when you carbs up, what I ma warning against is the practice of running this kind of eating plan on a continuous basis which many do. Demitri...do you use a ketogenic (Body Opus) diet year round? Jbrand, show me ONE person who eats like this and has built muscle while doing so...or better yet show me one person who looks like they train. I have seen so many guys at my gym follow Atkins to a T and they drop a ton of weight but look like total shit! Look bros, I'm not flaming here and I'm not arguing. Carb depleting and carb loading are an integral part of contest dieting BUT in the real world you need carbs to function properly and be healthy.
    All I have is my personal experience, Pete. I can't say I've put on much size via a CKD, I find lifting to be hard as it is while in ketosis. I will try and put up a picture of myself one of these days, I definetely have proof of training but I am not arguing in the simple fact that I definetely don't owe the size I've put on to times during ketosis. I've only used it in limited time frames with weekend carb-ups.

  12. #12
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    Pete235, I've only competed once so far but it was a lot more fun than I thought. It was also a lot harder than I thought it would be.

    It's highly addictive and I'm going to be competing again in September. I'm looking forward to it ... just not the day before or the day after. I found those to be the two hardest days. I was so thirsty the day before and the day after I felt sick from indulging in too much sugar.

    I did do some AAS for the preparation. I was taking 2 shots of V a week from January to the end of April.

  13. #13
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    I agree, no carb diets should only be used when trying to rid the last little bit of fat/water for contest prep or a photo shoot...not like the craze of today were everyone is doing it, especially people who are working out trying to put on muscle??? IMO it's a very unhealthy diet mentally and physically.

  14. #14
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    Why I love the Keto diet

    Here's some before and after picture's of me. The before was taken on March 14 and the after was April 27.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Low carb, No carb, ketogenic dieting.....MY opinion!!-before-after.jpg  

  15. #15
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    wow I think that b4 pic looks kinda like me...not quite but kinda.
    Ckd's interest me, but figuring them out, is a pain...I agree that something like that definitely cant be healthy to do year round...in fact there have been numerous studies talking about how bad it is long term.

    When I find one of them I reprint it here...
    Last edited by solid90062; 05-23-2002 at 06:34 PM.

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    Shredz is offline Respected Member
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    Re: Why I love the Keto diet

    Originally posted by demetri
    Here's some before and after picture's of me. The before was taken on March 14 and the after was April 27.

    Props bro Props..you made quite the trasition....good luck in september..keep us up to date on progress.

  17. #17
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    Lookin real good Demetri!! Excellent job bro!

  18. #18
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    again no saying low carb/zero card is ideal, but some good info here:

    http://www.metabolicdiet.com/

    Bodyopis is a very good read for anyone into this sport even if you don't following diet lots of good info.

  19. #19
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    Thanks for all the feedback guys. Sorry I didn't intend to pull the foccus away from the keto diet. Just wanted to show what it does for me.

  20. #20
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    Demetri.. you forgot to mention that you WON your class man.. I think it needed to be said!

    Once again, congrats.

  21. #21
    berry is offline Associate Member
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    yes but the fat carries also a lot of water,what looks like fat is in mayor water!

  22. #22
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    IMO 0 carb does work, but unless its a close to a contest or shoot then its not worth it, and eeven then i don;t do it anymore (in terms of a photo shoot) i think the best diet is high protein and low carb ( under 50g a day) with 2 cheat meals a week. Not binge meals just like a sub and a slice of pizza and then right back on the diet. I've basicall y been doing this for a year and it works great for me. i do cardio after a cheat meal or the morning after a cheat meal on an empty stomach. i've stayed between 6-7%BF for the last year on this.

  23. #23
    SwoleCat is offline AR Hall of Fame
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    yeah...

    total keto for bodybuilders is ludicrous.......those wishing to do more of a body composition shift, which I endorse, instead of just focusing on fat loss. Low carb however is VERY successful, and cycling carbs while doing low carb is even better. One cannot be on moderate/high carbs and diet in an attempt to lose fat. You will lose WEIGHT, yes, but merely reducing overall caloric intake equally from all macros leads to MUSCLE loss as well as fat loss...........NOT a good idea! Trust me, I've lived it and seen it happen, and that is why I have constructed my own plans.

    I encourage the following principles in my clientele, let's face it, many ARE carb sensitive.

    1) carb cycling techniques
    2) timed eating
    3) macro manipulation

    Total keto is not a good idea, again, the theory was good but has many flaws. There truly is a better way!

    ~SC~XXL~2K3~
    Last edited by SwoleCat; 02-18-2003 at 09:36 AM.

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