Some posts from Doggcrap on dieting I've run across...Opinions?

[AbsolutelyLethal]

Post 1

Doggcrapp:
"Mondo I find 9.5 out of 10 times that someone stops gaining its his diet that is the problem. Eight out of 10 times that same lifter wrongly thinks he is overtraining or his workouts are off. The other 2 out of 10 times that person thinks his supplements or 'juice' is the problem. I keep trying to brainwash people SUPPLY AND DEMAND, SUPPLY AND DEMAND--if you can make a demand (hard enough training) you can meet the supply (abundance of protein grams). I love when people come to me with this problem of not making gains anymore and they go thru this intricate workout, supplement, and sauce fix and all i say is "double the serving size on all your protein drinks and make sure the post workout drink is 100grams at least." Boom! they take off gaining again. I know you don't know me from adam but trust me on this one. Food (protein) is your anabolic. Anyone in this forum who is at a true stalemate, I ask you to try 500 grams a day of protien for 6 months and then come back in here and tell me what you look like. Training is the engine, food (protein) is the gasoline and juice is the Nitrous oxide system. Mondo i would say hit 2 grams per lb of bodyweight that you want to be=500grams. That could be about 200-250 in protein drink grams and you can easily eat the rest."

Post 2
Question:
DC, I like your protein advice. How important do you think the carb and fat cals are? Do you think gaining muslce is more dependent on protein intake, total calorie intake, or both?

doggcrapp:
Well if your not meeting your energy requirements some of the protein your ingesting is going to be used as a fuel source. I like omega-3's (flaxseeds) and extra virgin olive oils (mono unsaturated fat)--118 calories per tablespoon. I throw 2-3 tablespoons in my morning and afternoon shakes but not in the post workout or bedtime ones (self explanatory). Go slow with olive oil or you will be seatbelting yourself to the toilet the first couple days. As far as diet I am like Palumbo in that aspect...I like high protein, moderate (good) fats and low to moderate carbs..I eat the amount of protein grams I want to ingest first and if its before 6-7pm I satisfy the rest of my hunger with carbs. If I go to mcdonalds I'll blast as many hamburgers as I can and skip the fries. (laughing) but true. After 6-7pm I will go high protein and trace to low carbs (example huge steak and alot of a vegetable but no rice, pasta or bread). This is the way I have found thru trial and error that I can keep myself and people I train fairly lean but still have them gaining at the highest rate. Im sorry im not a calorie counter at all. Im a protein gram counter. I weigh myself and others once a month on the same scale and if they are not gaining I already know they are on high protein so I fix the problem with added mono unsat's (olive oil), flaxseeds and some extra carbs here or there. I trained a 188 lb (former cornerback-NFL only one year) and got him up to 232 and then he stopped gaining. I tried everything to get him going again but after his protein intake I just couldnt get him to put enough food down the hatch. And I really got on his ass about it too. He was burning up every thing. He loved ice cream and I said **** it--get your protein in but pound down 1/2 gallon to a gallon a day before 6pm--he did and very quickly after that shot up up to 265 or so (with striations everywhere still). Moral of the story? I got no idea--dont follow that method.

second part to the question--i think gaining muscle is most dependant on protein along with hydration and glutamine intake AS LONG AS the BMR/energy requirments are met.

Post 3
He trains 4 weeks balls to the wall his style of rest-paused and then 2 weeks "cruisin" of more of the normal bodybuilding style, more then one exercise and set per muscle, to find new exercises for his 4 week blasts and recharge i think he said "keeping the hpta as optimal as possible shores up all the (sickness, depression, lethargy, injury, recovery, gains) problems people have."

Doggcrap
"As far as diet during those two cruising weeks, I have others and myself eat the same things just at the amounts I want. I usually eat for function which is completely stuffing myself but during those 2 weeks I eat to satisfy hunger which brings me down probably to 400-450 grams of protein or so. Sometimes I dont and just stay with the 550 on alot of those days. During the 4 weeks I honestly never miss meals, but during the 2 weeks cruising I will allow myself 4-5 meals a day (still high protein). Mostly five is the usual count. Continually blasting down 6 meals a day whether your hungry or not can get tedious. "

Post 4
Question:
Thanks for the wealth of information. Best stuff I've read in years. I have 2questions for you about how you eat. What the f### are soy grits? And why do you use flaxseeds instead of flaxseed oil?

DoggcrapSoy grits= 22 grams of protein /140 cals and 12 carbs per half cup --throw it in your oatmeal. I search for the lowest cost route to get in the most amount of viable protein...One bag of 28 ounce soy grits costs $1.75 to $2.25 and I get free shipping--you cant beat that for 7 to 8 servings of it. Try this place---http://store.yahoo.com/vitaglo/6326.html

The other question--Flaxseed oil is great for omega-3 except there is a problem. You get the most amount of lignans in ground flaxseed. You lose all or alot of it when processed into the oil. Even when you use the high lignan oils. The below study suggests ground flaxseed is on level with nolvadex /tamoxifen .

Thompson LU, Li T, Chen J, Goss PE Nutritional Sciences, University of Toronto, Toronto, ON, Canada; Medical Oncology, Princess Margaret Hospital, Toronto, ON, Canada

Epidemiological studies and biological properties of mammalian lignans derived from plant precursors (phytoestrogens) suggest that they may have anticancer potential. Flaxseed, the richest source of mammalian lignan precursors, has previously been shown to reduce the mammary tumor number and growth of established tumors in rats.

The aim of this study was to examine, in a randomized double blind, placebo controlled, prospective clinical trial, the effects of dietary flaxseed on tumor biology, urinary lignan excretion and side effects in patients with newly diagnosed breast tumors.


Side effects were monitored. Mean treatment times were 39 and 38 days in the placebo and flaxseed groups, respectively.


Significantly higher post-treatment urinary lignan excretion was observed in the flaxseed group compared with placebo and with pre-treatment levels. No significant adverse effects of flaxseed were reported. This study showed, for the first time, the potential of dietary modification with flaxseed and its components such as the lignans, in reducing tumor growth in patients with breast cancer comparable to the effects seen with preoperative tamoxifen.

They used ground flaxseeds in this study (flax meal). You can buy flax meal but it goes bad quickly so the best way in my opinion is grind them in a coffee grinder and throw them in your oatmeal. Before grinding the seed's shell protects it and it will keep that way for a long time--once ground I think you only have roughly 48 hours (could be wrong on that--its something like that) before they go rancid--its cheaper and easier to just buy the seeds and grind them then to buy flaxseed meal


Will Brink:" The implication of the above study is obvious for women, but men reading this should see the clear potential benefits: flax seeds and high lignan flax oil may be a natural anti estrogen as powerful as Nolvadex and would explain why I have seen reductions in gyno in men taking high amounts of flax oil"

Flaxseeds are about 90cents a lb--one
tablespoon is 50 calories and 2.5grams of protein--you can get them at any health food store in the bulk bin.


POST 5
Question.
Have you followed this type of work out and cycle theory while dieting?

Doggcrapp:
Yes but I am a firm believer in using cardio to take off bodyfat than screwing with the diet that built you all that muscle. I see the main problem of unsuccessfull precontest bodybuilders is they drastically change their diet that made them a huge bodybuilder in the first place. Its almost like a panic comes over them. These are the guys you see walking around huge offseason and show up at contests like scarecrows and losing 30lbs of muscle along the way. I like people to stay with the diet, but unlike in offseason to be real strict with it at night(i.e. low to trace carbs after 6-7pm as stated previously). Combined with the low to trace carbs after 6-7pm I have them do 45 minutes of cardio upon awakening (with fat burning compounds)and that works for almost every single person like a charm. In the rare case (hasnt happened yet)that it doesnt work for someone--I will make the low carb phase one hour earlier (5pm)--I havent had a problem yet getting anyone shredded so until I do theres not much more I can say....In my opinion the most important thing to do is not to panic and radically change your diet! Your continued training and eating like it is in the offseason is what is going to keep every iota of muscle that you have built on you...let cardio do its work and take the bodyfat off of you.

I feel the worst diet is the diet that someone cant stand to be on and their pissed because they cant eat something. If I am training them (dieting wise) the 45 minute cardio is mandatory(no exceptions) -the low to trace carbs after 6-7pm is mandatory (no exceptions) but if they want chocolate chip cookies or ice cream or something to that effect I tell them to blast it, eat as many cookies as you can possiblly eat so you dont crave it for at least two weeks. They can do that if they follow my two rules--1)they have to gulp down a protein drink before eating anything like that. 2) it has to be before 6pm. I do this for two reasons--mentally for their spirits and two probaly for my peace of mind--I have it stuck in my head that the body strives for homeostasis at all times and losing bodyfat is a war - I like to think I am tricking the body into thinking its not on a diet---and boom before it knows what hit it-6pm comes around/glycogen stores gradually utilized for rest of the night and during sleep and POW 45 minutes of cardio first thing in morning (rest of diminished glycogen stores and then bodyfat)

Post 6
Question
I am having a hard time shoveling down all the food and protein and this week was the worst. I am starting to gag just thinking about the next protein shake, steak, or chicken that I have to consume. My weight gains have been stuck the last 2 weeks and find that I am having a hard time getting above 250 lbs( weighing 244 as of today). Any ideas for increasing the appetite? I am using IP's eq and prop/suspension, but the Eq has not given any increase in appetite

doggcrapp:
Not so much as increasing the appetite as I saw a couple guys suggest some compounds in this thread---but a simple way to keep the scale going up. I run into the same problem from time to time and I know I cannot eat any more than I do.....the saviour for me is extra virgin olive oil--I work my way up to 3-4 tablespoons per protein drink...118 calories per tablespoon of a mostly monounsaturated fat (besides its other health benefits)--I have a highly active job, and train hard and I dont know of another bodybuilder who eats more than I do, yet still I hit sticking points where I know I am tapping out energy/glycogen resources---I kick in the olive oil and I dont have to eat any more than I do but the scale goes up again. This just happened again recently where I've been stuck at 282lbs for about 5 weeks....Im pounding down 4 tablespoons of olive oil per shake this last 10 days and I havent hit the scale yet but I already know things are moving up and can feel what is happening. Olive oil has an abundance of other benefits energy wise and bodyfat wise if you do a good study on it. I train some black guys and while black guys have superior genetics these guys just cant freaking eat!!! Olive oil is their godsend. I had a very thick black guy I trained who came to me stuck at 245lbs for a very very long time(years)...he olive oiled his way up to 290 in about 8 months time and turned himself into a superheavy.

Post 7
Question
Also, how much fat per day do you take in in grams, and how many grams of carbs?

Doggcrapp:
honestly I have no idea, I am continually into "accumalation of muscle" mode and I think if you start counting fat grams and carb grams in a size building program you'll drive yourself nuts. Personally I eat like the following every meal.....65 to 110 grams of protein down the hatch is imperiative, then I satisfy any other hunger needs with complex carbs......the fats I take in (besides whats in red meat and eggs etc) are flaxseed and extra virgin olive oils. After 6-7pm I lower my carbs dramatically and only take in protein and (low carb vegetables). I dont get fat this way. If I come to a sticking point with my bodyweight I start with one tablespoon of olive oil in my protein drinks and make my way up to 3 or 4 tablespoons over a weeks time. I dont include olive oil in my nightime protein drink though. As long as I get in 450 to 600 grams of protein in a day things keep moving upward. Ive never gained muscle easily (ever)-its a continual meticulous process for me.....thru trial and error Ive found simple things like 550 grams of protein and olive oil to get my calories up (when the eating gets tough) has been the key. I am ectomorphic and my mother was painfully skinny and I seem to be built on her lines---I know my body would love to weigh 168 to 175lbs normally without ever training--I've really had to put my time in at the dinner table for the past decade (plus) and it gets seriously annoying sometimes....but I do believe that the plate in front of you 6 times a day is what makes the difference between 97% of the 185-225lb bodybuilders out there and the 3% of the 260 to 310lb bodybuilders out there.

Post 8
Question:
How would you change things up when cutting or dieting for a show. I know you would instill the no evening carbs, morning low level cardio, and protein through the roof but it seems when I diet down I end up flat and definately smaller. If you could go into a little depth on the different approach on dieting, training, and supplementation, it would be greatly appreciated. I hate busting tail in the gym and eating by the clock to lose alot of hardearned muscle in the process.

Doggcrapp:
I am under the opinion of "if it aint broke dont fix it"---meaning what you did training and protein wise to be a huge bodybuilder in the offseason will keep you being a huge bodybuilder in a contest. I like people to train heavy still (at a safe rep range) and keep their protein high (with low carbs at nite) and let the cardio and supplements take the fat off. Im sorry to be so simple but an hour of cardio in the morning upon arising 16 weeks out (# of weeks depending on your bodyfat) with whatever fat burning compound/s you want to use (usnic acid, ECA, or clen etc, etc) during the day is going to get you shredded. Severely changing your diet, panicking, being obsessive/compulsive with precontest cardio etc is the surefire way of coming in flat, catabolized and a shadow of what you should be up there. (I trained a guy a couple years back who wanted to compete ---he was a hard 287lbs and I told him he wasnt ready (he had just gotten up to 287lbs--I brought him up from the 240's...but I felt he needed to get some of his weaker bodyparts up--calves, more back width)--he wanted me to train him for the show but I refused and he was pissed. He went for it on his own and this guy was so obsessive compulsive he ate tuna or chicken and rice 4-5 times a day and cardio 2-3 times a day for 45 minutes to an hour for his whole precontest. He weighed in at 206lbs onstage (206!!!) he was 287 fairly hard in offseason. I shouldnt even have to say he got smoked--finishing 13th I believe out of 16 competitors. I feel if he had his head on straight he could of come in at 237 to 242lbs and done much better (still no calves)---I like to see people get inside out-- just nasty shredded 14 days out and cruise in---

[SwoleCat]

I don't agree with doubling protein and increasing the pwo shakes/food/whatever to get "you gaining again" because when you do that, you are gaining, but you are gaining FAT!

Who gives a rat's (__!__) about "gaining" more weight if it's sloppy weight. DC and IronAddict's advice (they have the same generic advice) for diets is "EAT MORE"..........not very sound or detailed at all, but to each his own.
Interestingly, I've quite a few of their former clients come to me and SB to shed all that fat, as they simply hate how they look after taking that advice.

As a dietary manipulator, I can tell you it's far more intricate than that. I could get all of you to gain weight like mad too, but you'd want to kill me for the kind of weight it is. Remember that too much protein leads to gluconeogenesis which is worse than not eating enough protein actually, as it turns to sugar, and you are most likely burning lean muscle tissue for fuel.

Over 100 grams of protein in a sitting? Come on now, you don't see anything remotely assinine about that?

~SC~

[Elliot]

can some one make some cliff notes for me ? i have the attention span of a 9 year old..

[SwoleCat]

LOL, really bro, I know what you read here and what you've learned, and what you know thus far is very accurate from myself and the bros here. I'd not worry too much about absorbing any of what was listed, as it's not going to help you achieve what you are after any quicker. That's a synopsis of it for ya!

~SC~

[Kärnfysikern]

never knew whole flax seeds is a potent anti estrogen. Thats awsome

[ColdSore]

LOL, really bro, I know what you read here and what you've learned, and what you know thus far is very accurate from myself and the bros here. I'd not worry too much about absorbing any of what was listed, as it's not going to help you achieve what you are after any quicker. That's a synopsis of it for ya!

~SC~

swole....could you give us an outline of your dieting techniques and what its all about...i know you charge normally, but just a little info wouldnt hurt

[symatech]

swole, how does one determine when you are taking too much protein? i try to get about 2g per lbm but sometimes get less, hardly ever more.

[usualsuspect]

No disputing a calorie surplus will lead to weight gain. The question is whether most of the weight gained is fat or LBM. If calories don't justify energy expediture and the calories consumed aren't clean, I'd venture to say most people will put on a lot of fat with this diet. While DC may be successful at turning ordinary guys into houses, I personally much rather clean bulk with respect to limited fat gain and diet down later with a lot less work. BUt to each his own...As the saying goes, there is one than one way to skin a cat.

Personally, I'll just follow DC's training protocols for the time being. Good post though...

~US~

[SwoleCat]

swole....could you give us an outline of your dieting techniques and what its all about...i know you charge normally, but just a little info wouldnt hurt

Where ya been man, where ya been?

Take a look around the diet forum bro, I've preached for months on end.

~SC~

[ColdSore]

Where ya been man, where ya been?

Take a look around the diet forum bro, I've preached for months on end.

~SC~

haha ...you nailed me for not researching ....

see....what i really meant is for you to add a bit on your diet in this thread so we could compare the two methods

[SwoleCat]

My current dietary intake, or programs that I construct via my business?

If it's the latter, I don't have "one" diet, so I am un-sure as to what you are asking. I've 4 in total, and they all apply different principles, so it's not possible to compare one diet to the post above, or I'd be happy to.

Some of the dietary principles I believe in for myself are in the sticky atop the page if you are wanting to know what types of methods I personally like. That and the advice and critiques I give here to other's diets is an indication of what I believe is benefitial to them and their respective goals listed.

I can however tell you what I don't agree with, and that's the 100 grams of protein per sitting, ridiculous. But like U.S. said, to each his own.


Thanks,
~SC~

[AbsolutelyLethal]

Didnt say I agreed with his philosophies..Seem way to radical...
Things that caught my attention:
-500+ g's of protein is an intense amount
-I found it was weird that the "cornerback" gained all that weight eating ice cream
-Cutting carbs down if you can past 6-7 unless you have to with a PWO shake...Whatver
-4 Spoons of Olive in a shake?! Thats like 60+ g's of fat...Hot d-amn!
-Claims to maintain at 1 g of test at week while others are at much higher doses...Dont know anything about Test doses but sounds cool...

Swole, I figured when he said he added weight to him and his clients he was talking a lot of Lean mass...Didnt know it was fat...Oh well...

I only posted the above threads because they caught my attention while reading the 100 page thread on the workout routine...

[SwoleCat]

They may have gained lean mass, but also a lot of fat (__!__).

~SC~

[Doggcrapp]

Im laughing pretty hard over here.....yea theres a mass amount of posts by people saying I turned them into fat slobs isnt there? NOT------ Go on musclemayhem in the picture section--theres 3-5 guys right in there that I train and decide for yourself. You know swole i dont do contest prep for people and I tell them that up front. i dont feel comfortable in telling someone to low carb it for 4-5 days by going by pictures online. I cant see graininess by pictures, i cant see lower abs, obliques, separation etc etc---and I dont think i have a right to tell someone what to do without seeing them in person in those last 4 most important weeks. Ive had people ask me after getting them up in size about my choice of people that can diet them down for shows, a couple mentioned Skip, a couple mentioned wyldeone, and a couple have mentioned you. I told them "youll be in good hands" for all three of you, just trust in what they say and follow it to the letter. **** that!!! Im steering people clear away from you after reading this post and also after perusing your diet advice (for the first time) to one of your clients who sent it to me today in regards to this post. TALK ABOUT ****ING GENERIC. My diets take up 14-20 pages printed out. Your diet is maybe a page and you go over 2 versions of the diet in that one page. Im sorry you dont quite understand the 60 grams of protein up to 100grams at least a meal I do with people but you obviously arent working with people that are weighing 250 to 360lbs like I am(my top guy is 360lbs). The day a 105lb fitness model and 315lb Ron Coleman digest the same amount of protein per meal (35 grams or so according to your diet plan) is the day Ill pack up the DC system and go home. I dont badmouth other trainers, I feel im above that and certainly have never badmouthed you previous to this post, but im sure not going to listen to rambling bull**** from a guy who obviously must have some problems that im stealing some of his thunder somewhere. Have you checked the scoreboard lately Swole? The freaking pics all over the net. People are gaining 35-70lbs of muscle with me in incredibly short time periods at a leaner bodyweight when they started. If you have had clients of mine come to you complaining that I got them fat then have them post on this thread as such, because thats a crock of bull**** and Im calling you out on that. Have them post right here and Ill answer to it. This is the part where you come back at me with some kind of suburban white kid Snoop Chaddy Chad street lingo from that hardcore gangsta town right above Monterey--(where the hardest thing youll ever hear is "Dude that wave is gnarly")

In all seriousness, Ive never badmouthed you anywhere to anyone, its fine if you want to disagree with my methods, I dont agree with yours either but you wont see me in any open forum previous to this post stating such.

[babygetoboy]

52 Pounds, yes that's right, that's what I gained in about 3 months after starting training personally with Doggcrapp. Fatter??? Hell no, leaner?? yes and this is coming from an Endo who is deathly afraid of becoming fat again. I've never heard of anyone ever getting fat off of Doggcrapps programs, the only complaint I ever hear is how much you have to eat!! This program works amazingly, and I am a living example. Before bashing, try it.

[mark956101957]

Was this orchestrated?

[thetack]

swolecat wrote: Remember that too much protein leads to gluconeogenesis which is worse than not eating enough protein actually, as it turns to sugar, and you are most likely burning lean muscle tissue for fuel.

where did you get this information from, a junior high kinesiology text book? wow is your statement flawed. NO, too much protein does not lead to gluconeogenesis. yes you are right gluconeogenesis is the bio-synthesis of glucose (and by the way sugar is not glucose, it is sucrose, these two polymers on the biological level are not even close).

you are using gluconeogenesis as the culprit to fat gain. first of all gluconeogenesis is a safety mechanism the body has for operation of the body (mainly brain function). if your body is going through a form of reverse glycolysis (gluconeogenesis) you are probably in a state of starvation or your body is in definite need of energy for its essential function of life from some type of traumatic food depravation (like a ketogenic diet, a stupid diet by the way). this would never happen to a bodybuilder who is consistently feeding the body 6 x a day to obtain results of lean tissue gain.

The comment “you are most likely burning lean muscle tissue for fuel”, where the hell did that come from. you just said you think DC makes trainee’s stuff too much food down there throats, and you honestly think the body is going to look for energy from lean muscle tissue. I don’t think so, actually I know so.

please don't say too much protein causes gluconeogenesis which turns to sugar and then leads to increase fat stores, because the statement is clearly wrong, it is way too far stated. too much protein can lead to excessive calories which could lead to weight/fat gain, i will take that comment.

i have seen DC's diet guidelines and it is a ton of food, but some people are so stuck on FLEX’s recommendation of 1.5 grams of protein per lb of body weight, who the hell came up with that number anyway. Dante may request some trainees to down 600 grams of protein a day, which may sound “radical” to some, but his following does not lie, and they are in the 1000’s. his system works plain and simple, and works big time, over 35lbs for me. Trust me when I say his diet is not cookie cutter, it is a **** novel extremely well thought out and personalized to the trainee.

tack

[LeanMeOut]

Swole you must have pissed someone off lol.... we have lots of "newbie members" making their first posts to refute against you.

Can't wait for some replies from both sides on this one tomorrow...


Mike

[bigsd67]

this thread should just be deleted....who the hell wants to see a bunch of grown men argue like little kids. not to offend anyone by saying that, but this is not going to end up being productive. DC im sure your methods work for some but not all and Swole I'm sure yours work well too. leave it at that and go separate ways.

[SwoleCat]

I'm not going to sit here and argue with this planned attack on me, and it won't be allowed here. You don't see me going to Animals board when people are giving their opinions on my programs. Trust me, they are not opinions, the are slanderous attacks.

I should have clarified that A FEW have come to me needing to lose the excess weight, not all, as I know that you do have your methods that help people, as we all do. I won't give you names, as that wouldn't be right and you know that. It's not a way of "copping out", but I remember these people as they mentioned they thought they were eating way too much, that's all. So, it's not to sound as if "DC doesn't know crap" as that is not what I meant, I was just in disagreement w/some principles, should have made that clear, and for that I was wrong, yes. My bad on that one, but you don't need to get so dayum defensive man. Fine if you wish to steer people away from me, plently are steering right towards me. I realize my response could make you "hate" me or be out to personally bad mouth me to everyone you see, but hey, that's happened before at Elite and all over from others, so I just deal w/it as it comes, no worries. Attacking my programs also is hilarious, because the programs (written form) is merely 1 portion of 3 components of each of my programs. So, it's simplicity is there for a reason, to get even the most under-educated people in regards to fitness, to be able to follow and understand. Simple is best, too complicated and people give up. You have your presentation ways, and I have mine. I have a private VIP forum and consultation which utilizes the rest of the program principles, so the actual printed dietary layout is only one part of the over-all structure.
We aren't attacking presentation styles, at least I wasn't, so I don't see any reason to explain why I have things set-up the way I do.

As far as your "ghetto this, ghetto that" response, you must know very little about me. Personally, I'm more than happy w/that. You have no idea what my programs entail, they are all different in length/style/type/focus/etc.
If your programs are that long, you need to learn how to consolidate.

I just go by what I hear as far as feedback that's all, so again, it's just my opinion. You do what works for you, and I'll do what works for me. If you are content w/your ways, you wouldn't bring yourself and your lackies to my house to start shiat..........u must be outta your 100 grams of protein per sitting brain if u think that's gonna fly.

Oh, just for you.........peace out homeboy!!!!! LOL...............I don't live in Monterey idiot, and your locational attack on me greatly reduces your credibility in my eyes. Why the need for that? Jealous because I have style? Because I have a personality and showcase pics and give people something TANGIBLE?? We are talking about programs and training here, not where someone lives or how he/she talks. I have impeccable spelling and grammar, so if you don't know the flavor of my kool aid, get the hell out. This is like G-Unit/50 Cent vs. Ja Rule, going back and forth............OH!!!!! My bad, you probably don't know who those people are, excuse me, it's the ghetto disease again! Lord knows those who like hip/hop and rap cannot possibly be intelligent and run a successful Internet business that is touted in a few very popular magazines, nah, they don't like people like me. (EXTREME SARCASM!)
Check the next issue of MuscleMag, hint hint.........

By the way, I've never seen any pics of you? How's about it Crap? Post away w/all those pics that showcase what you know actually works, after all you do put your methods to use, corrrect?????

Show what you know "PLAYA"..................

Don't be shy now, show the world! There is value in pics, anyone can type and create usernames by the tenfold, that's an archaic strategy.

~SC~

[AbsolutelyLethal]

Dogg and Swole...

Didnt mean to start anything between the two of you. Just trying to bring new idealogy into the forum that some people might be unaware of...There is more then one way to skin a cat...Both of you get results with your clients, lets leave it at that.

Lets just chill and have an adult like conversation with out bashing...It alright to disagree with someone and voice your opinion but we dont need flaming back and forth...

[SwoleCat]

If I even show my face at Animal's board (where DC lives), they edit all my posts quicker than a whore sweats in church.

Personally I could give a rat's (__!__) about his opinions and attacks on me, I know what I do and I know how successful I am. I already explained that I should have been more clear in that he DOES HELP a lot of people, yes, but we have DIFFERENT areas in which we excel........that was my fault. I was not saying that D.C. does not know anything, I'd never say that. I did say that there are things I don't personally agree with, as I am sure he doesn't agree w/some of my principles. However, this was all in regards to principles and beliefs, not your persona or who you are as a person. I never insulted him and his style, way of talking, look, etc. Actually, I've never see him, so who knows who the hell I'm talking to.

Point is, (and cause for my post above), is attacking me on a personal level as that was totally uncalled for, and I see no relevance at all in doing so. I could do much the same, but why? Does it make me appear any brighter/more educated? No, quite the opposite. If it was his was of somehow attempting to make himself appear more educated or "better" than I, I've never been keen to those methods.

So, in closing I am man enough to admit that what I typed was not clear and could totally be mis-construed, and I do apologize for that. As a trainer myself, it's not my intention to PURPOSELY down others. However, I won't sit here and have people attack who I am and how I talk/look/etc., and attack my programs after only seeing 1 component of all that I do, that's not gonna fly. As well, I don't get all this "ghetto Cadillac" stuff anyhow, someone must be all into learning about me!

I don't like diggin' graves, I let people dig their own. I said I was wrong in my blanket statement, and I'll leave it at that. If he and his lackies want to continue to "posse up" and attack me, that's up to them, but it won't last here. He helps people and I help people, there is no arguing that we have our own way of doing things, and in reality, we specialize in diff. things and will continue to help those who wish to be helped.

As Diet Guru, I apologize to all of you for having such a negative thread here, I'll be sure to clarify in the future what I meant so as to avoid the litter we see here.

~SC~

[SwoleCat]

Your diet is maybe a page and you go over 2 versions of the diet in that one page.

That is nothing that I produce. I don't have any one page programs, and I don't go over two versions of anything. Most of my programs are about 6-7 pages long, dependent on the services required and the particular client. As you know, all trainees are different and require different plans of attack. One major diff is that I can say you don't need a GRAM of test per week to grow on the program SB and myself contruct for people. Hell, on a gram of test, u could eat twinkies and grow......not my focus, but again to each his own. Those I assist do not wish to take absurb dosages of illegal subtances, and for success they are certainly NOT needed.

Talk about bad-mouthing, you're not even close. Even IF I could consolidate EVERYTHING into ONE paragraph, so what? If it works, isn't that the point? If I could use mental telepathy to get my instruction across, if it's effective, then that's all that matters.

If you need a War & Peace type layout to get your principles across, then please do so. It doesn't lend itself to being superior in any way/shape/form.
In my post above I said, "just like U.S. said, to each his own". That applies here as well.

You are highly mis-informed. As far as "checking the scoreboard", that all depends on what game you are playing. I'm more than happy with my score, and I am not in competition with anyone. Check T-Mag, MuscleMag (next issue too), Elite, here, MM.net, GotFina, my board, etc., I have plenty of touchdowns "brutha".

Hope all of this is clear and that u understand my explanations above. If not......

For a summary of my feelings of all this, listen to "Dirt off your shoulder" by Jay-Z and/or watch the video. If you get that "ghetto" stuff where ya reside.

~SC~

[Cycleon]

What is not going to happen here is an argument about 2 people's business practices.

there are arguments to be made for both philosophies and people can chose what they want based on the info.

Swolecat is respected here because he spends a lot of time her helping people out and is knowlegeable on dietary theory - certainly he has his business but he does a lot of help for free

dogcrap - we dont allow personal attacks on AR - that means no one attacks you and we dont allow you to personalise an attack on anyone - we have civil debates over here based upon information, whether theory or experience. - but you can tear up an idea or even someones pet theory all you want

I do know a lot of people respect and use your methods and theories and you are very welcome to put them up - I think we would all benefit to see them on AR - a civil discourse on the merits of each would benefit us all.

[SwoleCat]

Thank you. These debates would be limited to theories and not the way in which programs are presented, where one lives, etc.

I.E., needing a gram of test per week min. to maintain, that kind of thing. Thanks Cycleon for dousin' the flames, now back to regularly scheduled programming.

~SC~

[dcrocks]

What is not going to happen here is an argument about 2 people's business practices.

there are arguments to be made for both philosophies and people can chose what they want based on the info.

Swolecat is respected here because he spends a lot of time her helping people out and is knowlegeable on dietary theory - certainly he has his business but he does a lot of help for free

dogcrap - we dont allow personal attacks on AR - that means no one attacks you and we dont allow you to personalise an attack on anyone - we have civil debates over here based upon information, whether theory or experience. - but you can tear up an idea or even someones pet theory all you want

I do know a lot of people respect and use your methods and theories and you are very welcome to put them up - I think we would all benefit to see them on AR - a civil discourse on the merits of each would benefit us all.

Cycleon- I am curious, and this is my opinon.

If there are no attacks allowed on AR...perhaps you could explain swolecats first post.

The first thing that stands out is swolecat insulting the integrity of DCs dietary programs.
Swolecat was the first one to insult his business practice of dietary advice by calling it "unsound"and "generic".
He then goes onto to make uncalled for and deflamatory insults by calling into question dcs customerbase i.e."quite of few excustomers" come to me with complaints about "sloppy weight gained".

The strange thing is swolecat loses his cool and says that it is a planned attack against him personally and his programs-when it is he who is doing the attacking.

Then Dc has to come over here and defend himself against swole slandering his programs.

The bottom line you should be consistent. The rememedy is and should be very elementary. If Swole cannot abide by the rules of the board then you should take responsiblity and ban him accordingly. Of if that is not an viable option perhaps describe that all he needs to do is simple illustrate what elements he disagrees with and leave it at that.

This whole thing could have and should have been avoided if swolecat would learn the rules of the board.

DC is a very busy person and shouldn't have to come on this board and defend himself against visous attacks from swole.

Have a nice day.

[SwoleCat]

DCrocks as a new member w/1 post? Coincidence?

If you care to scroll down further and see where I CORRECTED my statements, you can see I APOLOGIZED.

Or, were you so quick to create a new username, you didn't read that far?

Me learn the rules? ROFLMFAO!!!!!!!!

Yeah, "cadillac this, ghetto that", those are within the rules huh? Personal attacks? Unfortunately former clients have come to me for assistance, sorry to say, that is not a personal attack, it's what has happened. If DC were to say some of my clients have gone to him (he did actually, he said someone even gave him one of my programs!), then oh well, tough titties is how I look at that! I don't restrict where people can look/go for assistance, no one can.

I was man enough to go back, go in depth, and admit I made quick blanket statements in regards to his services.

Do us a favor and actually READ/UNDERSTAND/COMPREHEND the rest of the thread. Trust me, I am very busy myself, but never too busy to explain to the people who help to make me who I am, that I momentarily had a "brain fart" and then go on explain how/why/etc.

Enough of the DC lackies already. Like I don't know who this really is.



~SC~

[dcrocks]

Thank you. These debates would be limited to theories and not the way in which programs are presented, where one lives, etc.

I.E., needing a gram of test per week min. to maintain, that kind of thing. Thanks Cycleon for dousin' the flames, now back to regularly scheduled programming.

~SC~

swolecat...I would appreciate it you would abide by the rules of the boards. Your flames against dc are unwarented and unwelcome.

I and many others have found his programs extremely effective. Check with some of the mods on this board for further reference.

In the future please keep your "debate" to the elements of the program you are familair with and disagree with and suggest possible alternatives instead of childish insults undermining the viability of others programs and success of their client base.

Thank you and have a wonderful day.

[SwoleCat]

See my post above, and you may want to read before you type.

You'd appreciate it if I abided by the rules, hahah!!! I'd appreciate it if your "gang" would let DC speak for himself.

You don't see me having my clients/friends/etc. coming here to stick up for me. I can do all that stuff on my own DAWG.

You have a swell day too my brutha.

~SC~

[Cycleon]

As I said - I dont want it from either of you - Swole, that means you too - I dont need to see you responding to this - Im sure your ideas cans stand on their own.