My TRT Results

[eregitano]

I've been on a protocol of 300MG per week of test cyp for 5 weeks.

What's confusing me some is my scales of measuring test and Estrogen seem to be different than what I typically see others post. Any help in translating this would be helpful.

I'd also be open to suggestions on Estrogen Inhibitor protocol given the results below.

Baseline Test before first injection
6/5/10
*note we did not test Estrogen levels
*note test scale is slightly different that what you'd normally see

Test 259 on a scale of 241-827 ng/dl

7/9/10

Test 1128 on a scale of 241-827 ng/dl

Testb ( i think this is free test) 1088 on a scale of 62-512 ng/dl

Estrogen
177 on a scale of 40-115 pg/ml


I feel great for the most part. Great workouts, clean diet. Seem to be holding water.

Anyone know how these results convert to the typical scale. Any thoughts or suggestions. Thanks much.

[Vettester]

I've been on a protocol of 300MG per week of test cyp for 5 weeks.

What's confusing me some is my scales of measuring test and Estrogen seem to be different than what I typically see others post. Any help in translating this would be helpful.

I'd also be open to suggestions on Estrogen Inhibitor protocol given the results below.

Baseline Test before first injection
6/5/10
*note we did not test Estrogen levels
*note test scale is slightly different that what you'd normally see

Test 259 on a scale of 241-827 ng/dl

7/9/10

Test 1128 on a scale of 241-827 ng/dl

Testb ( i think this is free test) 1088 on a scale of 62-512 ng/dl

Estrogen
177 on a scale of 40-115 pg/ml


I feel great for the most part. Great workouts, clean diet. Seem to be holding water.

Anyone know how these results convert to the typical scale. Any thoughts or suggestions. Thanks much.

I think your "T" results are on the same scale as most. Seems every place has their own range. My doc ranges Total Test Serum at 280-850. On the estrogen, are they testing Estradiol (E2)? Usually that ranges 20-50 or something in that area.

What are your stats, and do you have any specific goals in mind? Did the doc not include any AI with your program? Only 4 weeks in and you're over 1100 ... I'd personally cut back to 200mg, but that's JMO.

[crg]

listen to vettman about cutting back your dosage. how are your man parts hanging? over 1100 you may see some hcg in your future due to shrinkage

[eregitano]

I think your "T" results are on the same scale as most. Seems every place has their own range. My doc ranges Total Test Serum at 280-850. On the estrogen, are they testing Estradiol (E2)? Usually that ranges 20-50 or something in that area.

What are your stats, and do you have any specific goals in mind? Did the doc not include any AI with your program? Only 4 weeks in and you're over 1100 ... I'd personally cut back to 200mg, but that's JMO.

My general stats
(see picture above for some reference, that was about a year ago)
34 years old
6'0
220 lbs pre hrt - 230 lbs currently
about 14% bodyfat
very active (both with weight training, and cardio fitness training)

Goals.

Really looking to put some quality muscle on, burn some fat, get into good shape. (Like every man, right ?)

Doctor is not an endro, he my primary care, and frankly he's working through this and I essentially dictate to him what I want to do.

Since he gave me some free reign I'm pushing the limit a bit on the test per week, thinking it will give me a boost towards my goals.

With that I asked for him to test my estrogen levels and this is what the results read, so I don't know what it is based on other than the fact that I'm 60 points over the high max which screams I need an AI if I want to keep going with the test levels as such.

[eregitano]

listen to vettman about cutting back your dosage. how are your man parts hanging? over 1100 you may see some hcg in your future due to shrinkage

Honestly the jewels are looking good. I'm a big believer in ZMA before bed which essentially is an OTC supplement that keeps you test levels charging natuarally over night. At this point their holding out, however I'm assuming that I will need an AI and priob need one now given the E levels.

I've seen both HCG and Armidex suggested and in many cases both. What's the main difference in what these two offer and accomplish, and is it generally suggested to take both?

[Vettester]

You should probably get on some Adex, maybe 0.5mg x 3/wk, but run BW again in another month and see where it's taking you.

I agree with CRG. Look at adding some HCG to your program. However, you will want to cut back your Test dosage or your numbers will really go through the ceiling.

[eregitano]

You should probably get on some Adex, maybe 0.5mg x 3/wk, but run BW again in another month and see where it's taking you.

I agree with CRG. Look at adding some HCG to your program. However, you will want to cut back your Test dosage or your numbers will really go through the ceiling.

I need an education here, what's the harm in test going through the roof? I generally associate test with performance and gains, what are the drawbacks of high levels if one is maintaining an AI protocol with reasonable e levels?

[zaggahamma]

correct me if i'm wrong here i dont know if its after doing trt for awhile but i dont see a benefit of just doing higher test...i had more gains when i did moderate test (300) and low dose deca (150-200) for like 6 weeks

[eregitano]

correct me if i'm wrong here i dont know if its after doing trt for awhile but i dont see a benefit of just doing higher test...i had more gains when i did moderate test (300) and low dose deca(150-200) for like 6 weeks

that's where I'm at now (300) per week, but frankly the feeling is very intense in terms of libido, and overall alpha feeling, if you will. Clearly my test numbers tell the story of why I feel the way I do, however I'm a little bit surprised the the does I'm at is doing what it's doing.

My thought is it would level out over time, but sounds like Vette is suggesting that it could continue to climb.

[eregitano]

what is the fundamental difference between adex and HCG in terms of functionality? I'm trying to figure out if it should be one or the other or both together.

[zaggahamma]

that's where I'm at now (300) per week, but frankly the feeling is very intense in terms of libido, and overall alpha feeling, if you will. Clearly my test numbers tell the story of why I feel the way I do, however I'm a little bit surprised the the does I'm at is doing what it's doing.

My thought is it would level out over time, but sounds like Vette is suggesting that it could continue to climb.

300 i plenty test to make solid gains...when i was running that when first starting trt and then got estro in check with arimidex crazy shit happened but u GOTTA keep that ratio test/estro ....i have a feeling that estro is gonna catch up with u soon....getter done bro

[eregitano]

300 i plenty test to make solid gains...when i was running that when first starting trt and then got estro in check with arimidex crazy shit happened but u GOTTA keep that ratio test/estro ....i have a feeling that estro is gonna catch up with u soon....getter done bro

so the crazy stuff happened after you got the estro in check? Crazy good or crazy bad? If you don't mind sharing, I'd like to know the details.

I'm on it in terms of getting the estro in check, have an appt next week, just want to know what I should ask for...adex, HCG , or both.

[Vettester]

I need an education here, what's the harm in test going through the roof? I generally associate test with performance and gains, what are the drawbacks of high levels if one is maintaining an AI protocol with reasonable e levels?

There is a consequence associated with anything that is taken in excess! You can experience more noticeable sides including lipid issues, RBC issue, and the estrogen and water retention is only going to get worse for you. Give it awhile and the body will start to revolt and this happy ride you're feeling won't feel so good anymore.

If a guy wants to blast for awhile, so be it ... Plenty of guys here have done that. BUT, the whole intention of that process is to cycle that kind of dosage, then give the body a chance to rest and get back to normal.

IMO, the strategy of a good TRT regiment should be to find some sort of balance so that the body doesn't stress, and ultimately you find wellness and optimized health. Redline the motor too long and it will shut down.

[eregitano]

There is a consequence associated with anything that is taken in excess! You can experience more noticeable sides including lipid issues, RBC issue, and the estrogen and water retention is only going to get worse for you. Give it awhile and the body will start to revolt and this happy ride you're feeling won't feel so good anymore.

If a guy wants to blast for awhile, so be it ... Plenty of guys here have done that. BUT, the whole intention of that process is to cycle that kind of dosage, then give the body a chance to rest and get back to normal.

IMO, the strategy of a good TRT regiment should be to find some sort of balance so that the body doesn't stress, and ultimately you find wellness and optimized health. Redline the motor too long and it will shut down.

i guess the question is at the levels I'm currently at, is that redlined? I know guys who cycle test and their pushing 600-700 mgs per week as part of their cycle. My thought was that while 300 hundred per week is aggressive for TRT, it still was within the realm of TRT and not a cycle.

My numbers at this point show I'm pushing it, but am I pushing it too much even with adding an AI?

Vette where are you test levels generally?

[zaggahamma]

so the crazy stuff happened after you got the estro in check? Crazy good or crazy bad? If you don't mind sharing, I'd like to know the details.

I'm on it in terms of getting the estro in check, have an appt next week, just want to know what I should ask for...adex, HCG, or both.

if u call droppin body fat like bp drops oil crazy then that crazy....veins started showing...

youre already feeling good...but listen to the advice you've been given...getting that estro dialed in will work wonders and like vette said....more aint always better....you prolly would have been feeling good with 200...i havent added hcg but i sure should have....i like having kiwis more than grapes

[eregitano]

if u call droppin body fat like bp drops oil crazy then that crazy....veins started showing...

youre already feeling good...but listen to the advice you've been given...getting that estro dialed in will work wonders and like vette said....more aint always better....you prolly would have been feeling good with 200...i havent added hcg but i sure should have....i like having kiwis more than grapes

appreciate the advice and am soaking it all in.

[Vettester]

i guess the question is at the levels I'm currently at, is that redlined? I know guys who cycle test and their pushing 600-700 mgs per week as part of their cycle. My thought was that while 300 hundred per week is aggressive for TRT, it still was within the realm of TRT and not a cycle.

My numbers at this point show I'm pushing it, but am I pushing it too much even with adding an AI?

Vette where are you test levels generally?

I think you're getting a little confused with the whole AI thing.

AI's (Adex, Aromasin , letro) are completely different from HCG . When your "T" elevates it's going to convert to E2. AI's like Adex are needed to keep this in check. HCG is taken subcutaneously to mimic LH, which in turn will stimulate the testicles and keep them healthy and productive. HCG will actually add more opportunity for aromatization to occur, so an AI could become even more critical.

My levels range like everyone, I think my last test was 583, which was surprisingly a little low. I just ran my complete panel today, so we'll see where the cards fall. Ideally for me 700-850 is a good place to be.

[eregitano]

I think you're getting a little confused with the whole AI thing.

AI's (Adex, Aromasin , letro) are completely different from HCG . When your "T" elevates it's going to convert to E2. AI's like Adex are needed to keep this in check. HCG is taken subcutaneously to mimic LH, which in turn will stimulate the testicles and keep them healthy and productive. HCG will actually add more opportunity for aromatization to occur, so an AI could become even more critical.

My levels range like everyone, I think my last test was 583, which was surprisingly a little low. I just ran my complete panel today, so we'll see where the cards fall. Ideally for me 700-850 is a good place to be.

This is the info I was looking for, my impression has been HCG is another form of estro inhibitor much like adex. This makes sense then. So while the HCG keeps the boys going, it does not inhibit estro at all?

Very interesting.

[Vettester]

^^ Now you're getting the idea.

[eregitano]

if u call droppin body fat like bp drops oil crazy then that crazy....veins started showing...

youre already feeling good...but listen to the advice you've been given...getting that estro dialed in will work wonders and like vette said....more aint always better....you prolly would have been feeling good with 200...i havent added hcg but i sure should have....i like having kiwis more than grapes

out of curiosity what was your protocol for the adex...it seems .5 3x per week is the suggested dosage. Is that what you've run?

[zaggahamma]

out of curiosity what was your protocol for the adex...it seems .5 3x per week is the suggested dosage. Is that what you've run?

believe it or not...i took 1mg everyday in the beggining....worked at first as i mentioned but caught up to me later....lil libido issues...i eventually started .25 eod...but yeh...took a lot to begin with

[megustatetas]

This is the info I was looking for, my impression has been HCG is another form of estro inhibitor much like adex. This makes sense then. So while the HCG keeps the boys going, it does not inhibit estro at all?

Very interesting.

NO it does not inhibit est at all in fact it will increase it a bit more if you decide to add HCG to keep the boys purring along, then keep in mind if you do say 250iu 2 to 3 times a week that will increase your natural test levels more and some of that will convert to est. just using 100mg test gel, with adex and hcg i hit 1500 on total test. so Vette and the others suggesting cutting back a bit are right, if not next will be oily skin maybe acne issues, possible prostate hypertrophy from elevated DHT (another by-product of test conversion). i think you can overshoot a bit at your age to say 1100 and stay there ok, but don't think for you it should take more 150-200mgs/week if you cycle in and out some HCG and keep the E2 in check. blood work, blood work and more until you get it dialed in...good luck