Nebido Before & After pictures

[jimmy79]

click for larger image.

[flatscat]

Certainly have lost some bf - btw how old are you?

[Logonzo]

Nice work, what's your protocol and routine? How long have you been doing it?

[bass]

it looks like you got rid of the gyno as well! good job!

[jimmy79]

Thanks for the support guys.

age, 32. (started when I was 31)

This was Nebido every 10 weeks. First 2 shots(loading phase) were 6 weeks apart. Last 2 shots were 9 weeks apart. Going to continue with 9 weeks interval.
The pics are 12 months apart. Hardly went to the gym in this time.
No AI was used. Nothing else but Nebido. Was not on any other treatment before this.

I did lots of bloodwork every month and my E2 levels were high in the first 6 months. Then they stabilized by themselves at around 30 (ref: 7-42)
DHEAS levels stayed constant throughout (low). IGF-1 almost doubled. Progesterone has stayed pretty low throughout at 1.2 (ref: 0.7-4.7)

I have noticed my joints are starting to click. Must be because of the reduced collagen synthesis? (side effect?)

Now I'm adding Ovidrel (rHCG) 100iu per day to my protocol. Hopefully DHEAS will start to go up.

What would happen if I start using Nandrolone Decanoate (Deca -Durabolin ) on a permanent basis? Maby at 60mgs per week?
Or will the rHCG take care of my clicking joints?

Will see

/J

[bass]

deca for continuous use has bad side effects, its better to cycle it, and the minimum effective dose would be 100 mgs ew. it will definitely help with joints, but why not try joint support supplements first? deca is very expensive!

[Brohim]

yep and Deca is a temp releif it just holds water in the joint's. Plus you would need to cycle it because you would have to use an AI or caber for progestin sides.

[yannick35]

Joint clicking a job for prolotherapy beleive me it works

[bass]

looks very painful, damn!\

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NsgU4FVYOA

[yannick35]

Done by Ross Hauser, but not everyone has is technique, i never get that amount of injection, i get high dosage, around 40cc but they are straight into the joint and ligament attachement. The injections are also done straight not stabbing like you see with the Hauser technique.

[jimmy79]

I think its more to do with weaker tendons than the amount of water in them.

I think a better explanation would be weaker tendons due to the decreased collagen synthesis. (Testosterone lowers it dramatically)
The weaker tendons would allow expansion of the joint causing a vacuum. Effectively as your joint expands, there is an empty space that gets stretched and at a certain point is sucks in Nitrogen from the surrounding tissues which causes a loud pop.
Some people have slightly lax joints and when this is the case the joint may click.

What about continuous use of Boldenone Undecylenate (Equipoise ) @ 50mgs per week?

/J

[yannick35]

If testosterone lowered collagen that much my medical doctor who is treating me for ligament laxity would never have put me on TRT. From the reseach he has done well over 15 years now he told me that testosterone will infact help the body produce more collagen, strenghten ligaments and tendons, will also help with lubrification of the joints.

Problem with testosterone and joint is that you are so stronger while on T that you forget to take it easy and not go crazy on weights.

I have read that high dosage of testosterone can have that effect on collagen, but TRT dosage have the opposite effect.

[jimmy79]

If you say the joint clicking is not from lowered collagen.. then are you saying Testosterone (TRT) decreases water in your joints (As in your post earlier today)?
Have you got any research journals to support this? I'd like to do some research myself.

/J

[yannick35]

The reseach i found was from the internet on google, and from what my medical doctor told me. What i found on google last month was very mixed reviews, some say it does, some say it doesn't. I been dealing with chronic pains for 10 years, lots of clicking, and no its not from lowered collagen, but more from laxed ligaments, when ever people stretch to much (they have been brainwashed into doing so, like yoga and other stuff like this that can actually hurt the body if not done correctly.) Heavy weight lifting and sport injury.

Go the the caring medication website or type DR Ross Hauser in google and read all the articles on prolotherapy and joint clicking. Dr Hauser treats is patience with regular prolotherapy dextrose (sugar) inflammation and xylocaine, PRP palatel rich plasma, blood drawn from patient is processed into a centrifuge to increase platel number then re-injected into the injured area and last but no least, testosterone injection near the infected site to repair and regenerate.

http://www.prolonews.com/prolotherapy_and_hormones.htm

I am currently undergoing PRP treatments, i got clicking up the upper back and neck area, the hip and the lower back plus one of my shoulders. Treatment is working wonders and the addition of testosterone is starting to show some promissing resultes.

[jimmy79]

I don't get any joint pain at all.

/J

[jimmy79]

I found a study that shows Testosterone does not increase collagen at all. It actually decreases collagen synthesis.

http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v1.../5600357a.html

Search for this in that journal: "parent compound testosterone actually decreased collagen synthesis"

/J

[yannick35]

Joint pain is sometimes related to ligament laxity. testosterone at high dosage decreases collagen production TRT threapeutic dosage do not.

Dr Ross Hauser is the guru of prolotherapy i also thrust my medical doctor and i believe that testosterone can have amazing effect on collagen and repair de body. A lot better then glucosamine, and collagen supplements that have work nada for me for the last 10 years expect ride me of my hard eared money.

To each is own, i guess, if you think that testosterone will lower your collagen production then you might want to stop using testosterone for the time being until you repair your clicking problem.

Then restart you testosterone therapy afterward.

BTW Stanozolol is Winstrol V not testosterone, its a very bad steroid with a very bad rep.

I took Winstrol V during my first cycle 14 years ago, and i felt terrible on it, its water based, and it burn when you inject.

My medical doctor is also against it he says it will cause havoc on the heart and more.

Prolotherapy is done with testosterone cypionate or enhantate, oil based.

Not with winstrol or deca or equipose

[jimmy79]

I know what Stanozolol is. That journal just compares it to Testosterone

Did you actually read the Journal?

/J

[yannick35]

No i did not sorry, i just read the big lines, i am at my job right now and will read the whole article later, i kind of love reading studies, but the real experiment i like to do on myself. Like i said a lot of mixed reviews on the internet about many things.

I rather thrust what my medical doctor tells me, he been practicing medecin for over 35 years and prolotherapy for over 20 years, and putting is patience on TRT for 15 years. Many of is patience do not respond to prolotherapy treaments due to weak immune system and various physical problems, so TRT is done at the same time has prolotherapy, which goal is to strenghten ligaments and tendons, doing so if testosterone would remove collagen would be very counter productive.

[jimmy79]

I can't find any research on Boldenone Undecylenate (Equipoise ) in regards to collagen. Anyone have a link?
This leaves me with either Deca or Anavar for which I could find research on. I need a long term solution.

[zaggahamma]

id be happy with those results bro

congrats and good luck with future gains