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  1. #1
    warlock is offline Associate Member
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    slin + maltodextrine

    Hi,

    I started my slin today at 4 IU's and will up the dose by 1 IU in every work out until I get to 10 Iu's. I used whey + 40 grms of dextrose after the shot. I was wondring if maltodextrine would work equally good. I was thinking that when I get to 10 Iu's I can use a weight gainer I already have that contains 50 grms of whey + 100 grms of maltodextrine. Do you guys think that would be ok?

    Thanks and I hope someone can offer some input!!!

    Regards

  2. #2
    Mr. Sparkle's Avatar
    Mr. Sparkle is offline Slinabolic Vet / Retired
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    Nope its a disac if Im not mistaken..... just use dex bro... You need a mono for your first intake of sugar whenever the slin starts to work.

  3. #3
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    alo5603 is offline Member
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    I wouldn't risk it, just use dextrose to be safe like sparkle said, cuz he knows slin better than most...

  4. #4
    citric is offline New Member
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    Malto is a trisac, but breaks apart very easily, and oddly enough it ends up being absorbed slightly faster than dextrose...

    "Maltodextrin is a glucose polymer (a string of glucose units put together, similar to the protein peptide). It is therefore, by definition, a complex carbohydrate. However it's more complex nature does NOT slow digestion. Therefore, the GI and II remain high. Maltodextrin is the absolute best carbohydrate to consume during exercise for rapidly delivering blood glucose and for muscle glycogen recovery. It's also best for fluid uptake.

    Dextrose (glucose) is a simple carbohydrate unit (similar to the amino acid). While it's good for exercise situations (malto is better), you're probably better off adding some dextrose to your maltodextrin formula. A little bit of dextrose may enhance the already excellent fluid uptake that occurs with maltodextrin during exercise.

    Based on the three studies I reviewed (Blom et al 1987, ven Den Burgh et al 1996, Piehl et al 2000), it appears that dextrose is 72% faster than fructose for muscle glycogen resynthesis . As a result, at the end of 8 hours, muscle glycogen was 30% higher with dextrose ingestion. However, in another study, at the end of 4 hours, muscle glycogen was 15% higher with maltodextrin ingestion vs. dextrose. So dextrose kicks fructose's butt although malto beats up on dextrose."


    But personally, I would use dextrose as its use is more common with insulin and there is more info on its use. Use the wieght gainer for standerd pwo.

  5. #5
    Gear's Avatar
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    Either one will do. I have used maltodextrin, and I have used dextrose. I canot tell any dfference. Both malto and dex are broken down fast therefore are beneficial PWO.

    Your good to go with malto.

    -Gear

  6. #6
    warlock is offline Associate Member
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    Thank guys!!!

    Gear is good to hear that!!! I have plenty of a weight gainer that I want to start taking!!

    regards

  7. #7
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    angelxterminator is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by citric
    Malto is a trisac, but breaks apart very easily, and oddly enough it ends up being absorbed slightly faster than dextrose...

    "Maltodextrin is a glucose polymer (a string of glucose units put together, similar to the protein peptide). It is therefore, by definition, a complex carbohydrate. However it's more complex nature does NOT slow digestion. Therefore, the GI and II remain high. Maltodextrin is the absolute best carbohydrate to consume during exercise for rapidly delivering blood glucose and for muscle glycogen recovery. It's also best for fluid uptake.

    Dextrose (glucose) is a simple carbohydrate unit (similar to the amino acid). While it's good for exercise situations (malto is better), you're probably better off adding some dextrose to your maltodextrin formula. A little bit of dextrose may enhance the already excellent fluid uptake that occurs with maltodextrin during exercise.
    Based on the three studies I reviewed (Blom et al 1987, ven Den Burgh et al 1996, Piehl et al 2000), it appears that dextrose is 72% faster than fructose for muscle glycogen resynthesis . As a result, at the end of 8 hours, muscle glycogen was 30% higher with dextrose ingestion. However, in another study, at the end of 4 hours, muscle glycogen was 15% higher with maltodextrin ingestion vs. dextrose. So dextrose kicks fructose's butt although malto beats up on dextrose."


    But personally, I would use dextrose as its use is more common with insulin and there is more info on its use. Use the wieght gainer for standerd pwo.
    Actually your study just stated that dextrose exhibits a faster absorption rate than malto...

    Regardless, its common sense. NO carbohydrate could be stored faster than dextrose!

  8. #8
    Gear's Avatar
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    Angel, haven't see you around the board for a while, welcome back. Hope all is well.

    Warlock, because insulin is very diet dependant, you must take advantage of the amount of nutrients you can have PWO. So, instead of having 50g of whey PWO, add another 20 - 25g of protein as you want to have about 75g of protein PWO when using insulin. 50g of protein PWO is the amount people usually have when they don't use slin. I use about 40g. The 100g of dex + 10IU is fine.

    -Gear

  9. #9
    Mr. Sparkle's Avatar
    Mr. Sparkle is offline Slinabolic Vet / Retired
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    It was a good article, but Angel cought it too....
    A mono sac will be absorbed faster than a poly... plain and simple, its just chemisty... One is being broken down while the other is being utilized....

    But the fact that it can be broken down fast is good, with slin speed is important.

    citric, where did you find that? I am sure malto is sweeter, that is why companies use it...

  10. #10
    TheChosenOne's Avatar
    TheChosenOne is offline Anabolic Member
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    For whatever it's worth Malto actually has a higher GI than does Dextrose. With that said though I opt for Dextrose over Maltodextrin for the simple fact that it tastes better. Also for what it's worth if you were to check the ingredient lists on glucose tabs (made for diabetics going hypo) it is 100% dextrose.

  11. #11
    angelxterminator's Avatar
    angelxterminator is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gear
    Angel, haven't see you around the board for a while, welcome back. Hope all is well.

    -Gear
    Yea i haven't been around much. I'm recovering, but slowly.
    Good to be back!

  12. #12
    citric is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by angelxterminator
    Actually your study just stated that dextrose exhibits a faster absorption rate than malto...
    No, it was stated that a malto and dex combo would cause a faster rise than pure malto.
    "A little bit of dextrose may enhance the already excellent fluid uptake that occurs with maltodextrin during exercise."

    This is supported by:
    " Shi. X et al. in an outstanding study, tested the digestive effects of two substrates (any substance acted upon by an enzyme) as opposed to only one substrate in the small intestine. What they found was quite fascinating. The solution containing two substrates stimulated the activation of more transport mechanisms in the intestinal lumen, than did its singular counterpart. Therefore, more carbohydrates were transported out of the small intestine (absorbed into the blood), which additionally aided a greater absorption rate of water into the blood stream (by osmosis)."
    from http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/dextrose.php


    Quote Originally Posted by angelxterminator
    Regardless, its common sense. NO carbohydrate could be stored faster than dextrose!
    http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/dextrose.php has a rather nice explenation of why malto is faster:
    "Beginning with the first concept discussed called, “gastric emptying.” Our goal post workout is to maintain a prompt digestion rate so nutrients can transport swiftly and efficiently to our muscles. With that said, it has been shown that this process slows when the ingested fluid contains a high osmolarity concentration (the second concept studied). Osmolarity is dependent on the number of particles in a solution. That is, a100-milliliter solution with 20 glucose molecules will have a higher osmolarity then a100-millileter solution that only contains 10 molecules. The shorter chain length a carbohydrate has, the higher it raises the solution's osmolarity. Therefore, it is no surprise that a pure glucose solution (or dextrose, a monosaccharide) induces very high concentrations of solute (1,3,10). "


    Possibly a better explanation of the slowed digestion of dex:
    "Glucose is a simple carbohydrate unit (similar to the amino acid). simple sugars (glucose, sucrose, fructose, dextrose) must be mixed in weak 6-8% solutions in order to match body fluid osmolality and be digested with any efficiency. Unfortunately, solutions mixed and consumed at this concentration will only provide about 100 or so calories an hour, which is inadequate for maintaining energy production. However, you can't make a "double or triple strength" mixture from a simple sugar-based in the hopes of obtaining adequate amounts of calories because the concentration of that mixture will exceed 6-8%. Once that 6-8% solution concentrate is exceeded osmolality is raised and, unless more water and electrolytes are added to the mix (at which point the athlete might very well be flirting with over hydration), that concentrated simple sugar solution will not pass the gastric channels… it will literally sit in the stomach. Even more problematic is that if more fluids and electrolytes are not available the body will recruit these from other areas in the body (areas that critically need these fluids and electrolytes) and divert them to the digestive system to aid in the digestion of this too-concentrated simple sugar mix. Simply put, simple sugar-based drinks or gels have to be mixed and consumed at very dilute (and thus, calorically weak) concentrations in order to be digested with any efficiency. And again, when a simple sugar-based product is used it at properly mixed proportions it cannot provide adequate amounts of calories for energy production."

    Did yet more digging, it appears to be a contensious issue...
    "Substitution of maltodextrins (short chain glucose polymers) for free glucose may help to promote the emptying of glucose-electrolyte solutions from the stomach by reducing the osmolality of the solution while maintaining the total glucose content, although the studies reported in the literature are by no means in agreement. In an early report, Hunt (1960) found no major differences in the emptying rates of solutions containing isoenergetic amounts of monomeric glucose or starch. Foster et al., (1980), however, reported that substituting glucose oligomers 3-4 units in length for free glucose (5% solution) increased the rate of emptying by approximately one third, but no differences existed in emptying rates between free glucose and polymers for 10, 20, and 40% solutions. These results are in marked contrast to those reported recently by Sole and Noakes (1989); they found that a 15% glucose polymer solution emptied faster than a 15% solution of free glucose, although 5% and 10% solutions of free glucose and polymer appeared to be emptied at the same rates. The disparate results may be due to the fact that total gastric volume, including the volume of gastric secretions, was measured in the study of Foster et al., (1990) and the volume of the gastric secretions was unknown. Increased beverage osmolality increases the volume of gastric (as well as intestinal) secretions, and it is therefore possible that the total volume of the stomach contents may have been greater when solutions containing glucose rather than polymers were drunk, even though the amount of the ingested drink remaining in the stomach was the same. In another study, Naveri et al., (1989), found similar emptying rates for electrolyte solutions with 3% carbohydrate added in the form of either glucose or a polymer. Owen et al., (1986) found no difference in the rate of emptying of 10% solutions of glucose or glucose polymer, in spite of the higher osmolality of the free glucose solution. Rehrer et al., (1992) also observed similar emptying rates with 17% solutions of glucose polymer (313 mosmol/kg) and free glucose (1223 mosmol/kg); however, a 4.5% glucose solution emptied faster than a 17% polymer solution with the same osmolality. Even dilute polymer solutions are generally emptied more slowly than plain water, but Seiple et al., (1983) did report that a 7% glucose polymer solution with an osmolality of 216 mosmol/kg was emptied as fast as water; however, the first sampling point in this study was at 30 min, by which time at least 90% of total volume had emptied for all the solutions studied. In none of the above studies was the emptying rate of polymer solutions slower than that of free glucose solutions with the same energy content, and the polymer solutions were generally emptied faster even when the differences were not statistically significant." - http://www.gssiweb.com/reflib/refs/1...TOKEN=10987575

    The main take home point is to drink at least 1L water for every 50g glucose(150g malto), and to use a malto dex combo for optimal efficiency. I will keep drinking 65g dex in 1 L water, washed down with another half L, with my slin,


    Last edited by citric; 05-16-2005 at 08:33 PM.

  13. #13
    citric is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Sparkle
    It was a good article, but Angel cought it too....
    A mono sac will be absorbed faster than a poly... plain and simple, its just chemisty... One is being broken down while the other is being utilized....
    See previous post. Apparently it is digested faster, absorbed slower.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Sparkle
    citric, where did you find that?
    I got that off a forum post, I believe the original was from http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/...aneating_2.htm

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Sparkle
    I am sure malto is sweeter, that is why companies use it...
    From my experiance malto isn't sweet. I bought a lot of it and it has no taste. I think it is used for texture, (and to give an addicting sugar high without having to increase the g of sugar on the label )
    Last edited by citric; 05-16-2005 at 08:00 PM.

  14. #14
    warlock is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gear
    Angel, haven't see you around the board for a while, welcome back. Hope all is well.

    Warlock, because insulin is very diet dependant, you must take advantage of the amount of nutrients you can have PWO. So, instead of having 50g of whey PWO, add another 20 - 25g of protein as you want to have about 75g of protein PWO when using insulin. 50g of protein PWO is the amount people usually have when they don't use slin. I use about 40g. The 100g of dex + 10IU is fine.

    -Gear
    Thank guys for your reply.

    Gear,

    Will I notice much better resulst if I add the whey PWO to 75 grms instead of 50 grms while on slin? Will I be able to assimilate it all?

    Thanks

  15. #15
    Gear's Avatar
    Gear is offline HGH/IGF/Insulin Forum ~ AR-Hall of Famer
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    Quote Originally Posted by warlock
    Thank guys for your reply.

    Gear,

    Will I notice much better resulst if I add the whey PWO to 75 grms instead of 50 grms while on slin? Will I be able to assimilate it all?

    Thanks
    When not using insulin , most people will consume around 40 - 50g of protein PWO. When you use insulin, your body can intake more nutrients than usual. So why not take advantage of that by having a little bit more extra protein. That is why it is recomended to have about 75g.

    You probably wont notice any difference when taking 75g instead of the usualy 50g, but you should still give your body more than 50g of protein PWO because it should defenitly be able to handle more than that.

    -Gear

  16. #16
    warlock is offline Associate Member
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    Thanks Gear, I'll be sure to do that!!!
    Regards

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