HCG Mixing/Dosing question

[LoGiKaL287]

So im nearing the end of my cycle, 3 weeks left.

Running 1200 mg/wk of test blend and 400 mg tren e. This is the first time I've added HCG into my PCT, usually just run nolva. So i have 30ml bacteriostatic water on the way and my amp of HCG 5000 IU.

My 2 questions are:

I plan on running 500 IU EOD from the last week of my cycle and carrying on until completion, from what ive read this the best way to implement HCG as PCT, any comments/advice on this?

When mixing my HCG, I plan on discarding 20 ml of BW, injecting 1 ml of BW into my dry ampule, then drawing it all out and injecting back into the remaining 9 ml of BW. Leaving me with 500 IU/ML which i will refrigerate. Is there anything wrong with using the BW vial to store my reconstituted HCG?

Any advice appreciated, Thanks!

[numbere]

This cycle was poorly planned. You should have had a PCT protocol in place and all the necessary products before starting your cycle. PCT should begin 14 days after last pin and include both nolva and clomid. The dosages should look similar to: nolva 40/20/20/20/20/20 clomid 100/50/50/50. You can get clomid from the site sponsor ar-r in the upper right hand corner of your browser.

Hcg should only be used on cycle because it mimics LH keeping the leydig cells functioning. When used during PCT hcg is suppressive to natural LH production. During PCT we are trying to regain natural production. You should begin using hcg today at 250 IU twice a week until 3 days before PCT.

Though unconventional, I think that you be fine using your method. However, it would be better to dilute with a total of 2 or 4 ml of bac water. Dilution with 2 ml will give you 250 IU per 0.1 ml or 10 units on a slin pin. Dilution with 4 ml will give you 250 IU per 0.2 ml or 20 units.

[LoGiKaL287]

Alright, i was under the impression that novladex and clomid were interchangeable. I'll look into getting some clomid aswell.

So if I understand correctly, dilution with 10 ml is unnecessary, I'll pick up some slin pins and go with 2 ml.

Thanks for the info

[numbere]

Nolva and clomid effect the HPT axis similarly, but your best chance at recovering pre cycle hormone levels is to use both. Clomid increases the amount of LH produced and nolva increases the rate at which LH is produced. Tren can shut your system down hard after a few weeks so you really need both products, and also why it's a good idea to use nolva for six weeks. I regularly get my orders from the site sponsor within three days with regular shipping.

Yes, reconstituting with 10 ml is redundant. That would make your 250 IU dose be 0.5 ml or 50 units. That's a bit silly if you have easy access to slin pins.

[mike198]

I am nearing the end of my first cycle. I'm 34 years old and ran test cyp (human grade) at 260 mg/week. Phenomenal recomp. Anyways, should I start PCT sooner than 2 weeks after last pin as is typically done? As I understand it, cyp has a half life of 7-10 days. My dosing scheme is mon 140, fri 120. Since my last pin is 120, after a week I would have 60 mg of test in my system. Should I implement my clomid at around 10 days post last pin? I also used HCG on cycle at 250 IUs on Thursdays and sundays. Arimidex was used as needed. PCT plan is clomid 100/100/50/50/25

[OdinsOtherSon]

you need to incorporate nolva with the clomid. See the posts above. You're running the clomid a bit long and at pretty high dosages, imho. I'd go with 75/50/50/50 or else you risk vision and anxiety issues with the clomid. If you want to extend pct further than 4 weeks, you need nolva. 40/40/20/20/20/20. Also, if you ran cyp, pct should begin 18 days after last pin. 14 day for enanthate .

[numbere]

I am nearing the end of my first cycle. I'm 34 years old and ran test cyp (human grade) at 260 mg/week. Phenomenal recomp. Anyways, should I start PCT sooner than 2 weeks after last pin as is typically done? As I understand it, cyp has a half life of 7-10 days. My dosing scheme is mon 140, fri 120. Since my last pin is 120, after a week I would have 60 mg of test in my system. Should I implement my clomid at around 10 days post last pin? I also used HCG on cycle at 250 IUs on Thursdays and sundays. Arimidex was used as needed. PCT plan is clomid 100/100/50/50/25

You should have asked this question before you began your cycle.

How long was your cycle?

[mike198]

You should have asked this question before you began your cycle. How long was your cycle?

I just finished my eighth week. Gains are really ramping up so I think I'm going to extend it another 2 weeks. I researched this stuff for years and thought 2 weeks after last pin was when you start. However, I came across a school of thought recently that stated a smaller dosed cycle like mine would necessitate starting PCT earlier as there is going to be less of the drug in my system than say someone who was pinning 500/week and ended there cycle with a pin of 250. At 2 weeks they would have more active drug in their system

[mike198]

you need to incorporate nolva with the clomid. See the posts above. You're running the clomid a bit long and at pretty high dosages, imho. I'd go with 75/50/50/50 or else you risk vision and anxiety issues with the clomid. If you want to extend pct further than 4 weeks, you need nolva. 40/40/20/20/20/20. Also, if you ran cyp, pct should begin 18 days after last pin. 14 day for enanthate.

I've used clomid before as a standalone at 100/100/50 and just suffered from low libido. I got some BW done a couple days ago two days after a pin. I have read austinites PCT protocol of waiting 18 days, but would not the size of the dose be a factor in determining start time? If someone is using 500/week, their last pin would be 250 (as opposed to my 120). At 18 days, I am concerned that my TT would be zero. And if not zero, certainly at an atrociously low level. It seems like a bit cookie cutter-like to have 18 days as the number of days to wait. Anyways, no penalty in starting PCT too soon, right? This is a reason I want to run the clomid five weeks. In fact, that fifth week I think I'll keep it at 50 just to make up for any error time in starting too soon

[numbere]

I just finished my eighth week. Gains are really ramping up so I think I'm going to extend it another 2 weeks. I researched this stuff for years and thought 2 weeks after last pin was when you start. However, I came across a school of thought recently that stated a smaller dosed cycle like mine would necessitate starting PCT earlier as there is going to be less of the drug in my system than say someone who was pinning 500/week and ended there cycle with a pin of 250. At 2 weeks they would have more active drug in their system

I agree with the theory that amount of compound should be taken into account when considering PCT. There are many more factors besides half life that effect the pharmacokinetics of a compound. A study conducted on hypogonadal men receiving 200 mg/week IM of test c showed steroid levels reduced to basal levels by 13-14 days. Like OOS said PCT for test c usually begins 18 days after last pin. I think you should stick to your regular dosage scheme then wait 14 days and begin PCT using both clomid and nolva.

Dosages should look similar to:
Clomid 100/50/50/50
Nolva 40/20/20/20

[mike198]

I agree with the theory that amount of compound should be taken into account when considering PCT. There are many more factors besides half life that effect the pharmacokinetics of a compound. A study conducted on hypogonadal men receiving 200 mg/week IM of test c showed steroid levels reduced to basal levels by 13-14 days. Like OOS said PCT for test c usually begins 18 days after last pin. I think you should stick to your regular dosage scheme then wait 14 days and begin PCT using both clomid and nolva. Dosages should look similar to: Clomid 100/50/50/50 Nolva 40/20/20/20

Two SERMS for such a conservative cycle? I guess I could get some RC nolva. I was hoping to stick to what I got as all my gear and ancillaries were prescribed by a TRT clinic and are obviously quality stuff. And no I'm not on TRT in the traditional sense. But you're not the first person that has advised both clomid and nolva, so I may need to get the nolva. As far as the HCG goes, I am going to drop it during the 13 days I let the test clear my system. Some have said to use it up until 3 days before I start the clomid...but HCG is suppressive, so it's not adding up in my mind to use it while trying to return to homeostasis

[numbere]

Two SERMS for such a conservative cycle? I guess I could get some RC nolva. I was hoping to stick to what I got as all my gear and ancillaries were prescribed by a TRT clinic and are obviously quality stuff. And no I'm not on TRT in the traditional sense. But you're not the first person that has advised both clomid and nolva, so I may need to get the nolva. As far as the HCG goes, I am going to drop it during the 13 days I let the test clear my system. Some have said to use it up until 3 days before I start the clomid...but HCG is suppressive, so it's not adding up in my mind to use it while trying to return to homeostasis

Your cycle may have been conservative but after 3-4 weeks your HPG axis is shut down. You should use both clomid and nolva for your best chance at recovering pre cycle hormone levels. There's no need to worry about LH suppression as long as you stop using hcg 3 days before beginning PCT. Hcg has a terminal half life of about 24 hours.

I'm not familiar with RC nolva.

[mike198]

Your cycle may have been conservative but after 3-4 weeks your HPG axis is shut down. You should use both clomid and nolva for your best chance at recovering pre cycle hormone levels. There's no need to worry about LH suppression as long as you stop using hcg 3 days before beginning PCT. Hcg has a terminal half life of about 24 hours. I'm not familiar with RC nolva.

RC nolva = research chemical nolva. Not sure at what company I would use. I'm sure the sponsors on this forum and others are good to go.

Alright then. You've convinced me on the nolva. I will add it to my clomid.

As for the HCG , are you suggesting to use it during the two weeks I let the test clear my system? So if my final shot of 120 mg is done on Friday July 10, I would take HCG Sunday the 12th, Thursday the 16th, and Sunday the 19th...then begin clomid/nolva July 24?

If I keep using HCG as outlined above, I'm going to have to use arimidex , as I suspect HCG was skyrocketing my e2. I had some ED issues as I played around with the AI dosing. At first I crushed my e2, then it got too high, and then too low. I think I finally settled into a 0.25 mg E3D that feels good

[numbere]

RC nolva = research chemical nolva. Not sure at what company I would use. I'm sure the sponsors on this forum and others are good to go.

Alright then. You've convinced me on the nolva. I will add it to my clomid.

As for the HCG , are you suggesting to use it during the two weeks I let the test clear my system? So if my final shot of 120 mg is done on Friday July 10, I would take HCG Sunday the 12th, Thursday the 16th, and Sunday the 19th...then begin clomid/nolva July 24?

If I keep using HCG as outlined above, I'm going to have to use arimidex, as I suspect HCG was skyrocketing my e2. I had some ED issues as I played around with the AI dosing. At first I crushed my e2, then it got too high, and then too low. I think I finally settled into a 0.25 mg E3D that feels good

I can vouch for the site sponsor. They are the only company I trust for AIs and PCT chemicals.

Ideally one should use 250 IU twice a week of hcg from day one of cycle to three days prior to PCT. I thought you were already taking hcg, but it not then you should begin today.

You know your body than anyone else. However, I would be surprised if 500 IU/week of hcg would raise you e2 enough to warrant taking dex. Did you use blood work to dial in your AI dosage?

In the future if you have a question you should create your own thread. It's kind of rude to the person who started the thread and also makes it much easier for others to understand your questions.

[mike198]

Yes, I have been using HCG the entire cycle, and I will continue three days prior to PCT per your recommendation. I will get some of the nolva here as well.

I had pre cycle bloods done, and had more bloods done a few days ago (which is the 8th week of my cycle). So I did not have any BW to confirm high or low e2, just symptoms that I could attribute to one or the other. But I think symptoms can be interchangeable, so who knows what the heck was going on

OP, sorry for the hijack my friend!

[numbere]

Yes, I have been using HCG the entire cycle, and I will continue three days prior to PCT per your recommendation. I will get some of the nolva here as well.

I had pre cycle bloods done, and had more bloods done a few days ago (which is the 8th week of my cycle). So I did not have any BW to confirm high or low e2, just symptoms that I could attribute to one or the other. But I think symptoms can be interchangeable, so who knows what the heck was going on

OP, sorry for the hijack my friend!

Good call on using hcg as it will hasten recovery post cycle.

Keeping e2 within range is very important for health reasons and can be almost impossible without mid cycle labs. The symptoms between high and low e2 are very similar. Once you have had e2 problems and then have BW the symptoms become more clear. The only difference I can differentiate is water retention when e2 gets high. The best way to dial in your AI dose is to start with the recommended beginning dose of dex or stain. Then have mid cycle BW that includes a sensitive estradiol assay. Once you have this data the AI dosage can be titrated up or down in order to keep e2 within range. A sensitive estradiol assay is helpful because the standard e2 test is tailored towards women. Men will often score 10-20 points higher than actual with this test.

[mike198]

Good call on using hcg as it will hasten recovery post cycle. Keeping e2 within range is very important for health reasons and can be almost impossible without mid cycle labs. The symptoms between high and low e2 are very similar. Once you have had e2 problems and then have BW the symptoms become more clear. The only difference I can differentiate is water retention when e2 gets high. The best way to dial in your AI dose is to start with the recommended beginning dose of dex or stain. Then have mid cycle BW that includes a sensitive estradiol assay. Once you have this data the AI dosage can be titrated up or down in order to keep e2 within range. A sensitive estradiol assay is helpful because the standard e2 test is tailored towards women. Men will often score 10-20 points higher than actual with this test.

Hey, sir. I put up my mid cycle bloods in the questions and answers section in a thread I started about a month ago. Would you take a look?